Darias wrote:AmazingJesusIs wrote:Darias wrote:How've you come to determind this? How does not believing in Biblical inerrancy = the Bible means nothing to me? WinePusher doesn't even believe in that -- can you claim the Bible means nothing to him?
By not believing that the Bible being completely true, all 66 books, means that you do not believe the Scripture to be the inspired word of God.
Here, have some Scripture:
2 Timothy 3:16, "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;"
When it says 'All Scripture,' that doesn't mean most, it means every word.
When it says 'inspired by God,' it means it is perfect and the Word of God
When it says 'profitable for teaching,' it means that it is awesome for using as educational material.
When it says 'reproofing,' it means using Scripture to rebuke other people and ideas that are unbiblical.
When it says 'correction,' it is referring to using Scripture to correct others ideas and beliefs.
When it says 'training in righteousness,' it's saying that it is good for learning about the LORD and His plan.
Or is that also something that's not right in the Bible?
That verse was written before there was a canonized New Testament. It most likely referred to the Old Testament, and maybe various accounts of Jesus before the gospels were officially canonized. That verse, in the very least, couldn't have referred to the books written after it.
The NASB says "inspired," but a more correct and literal rendering is, "God-breathed." The Greek word is
θεόπνευστος, transliterated
theoptneustos. If you read the passage in context, and understand it in light of the other Scriptures below, Paul, in fact does refer to his teachings as Scripture. Consider the passage:
2 Timothy 3:10-17 ESV wrote:You, however, have followed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness, my persecutions and sufferings that happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, and at Lystra--which persecutions I endured; yet from them all the Lord rescued me. Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
Considering the bold print for context, an honest reading of this passage reveals that Paul does indeed consider his writings to be Scripture. Coupled with the fact that Peter also considered Paul's writings to be Scripture and that Paul considered Luke's writings to be Scripture, it is clear that they knew that they were writing Scripture itself.
Galatians 1:11-12 ESV wrote:For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man's gospel. For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.
Paul's teaching was a direct revelation from Jesus Christ, thus it is Scripture.
2 Peter 3:15-16 ESV wrote:And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
Peter is clearly calling Paul's writings Scripture.
1 Timothy 5:18 ESV wrote:For the Scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain," and, "The laborer deserves his wages."
The first half about not muzzling an ox is a direct quote from Deuteronomy 25:4. The second quote is not found in the Old Testament, but is a direct quote from Luke 10:7, thus establishing that Paul considered Luke's writings to be Scripture.
So we have Paul calling his own writings Scripture, Peter calling Paul's writings Scripture and Paul calling Luke's writings Scripture; all long before Scripture was canonized. In light of this, it can clearly be established that when Paul says that all Scripture is God-breathed, that he is referring to not only the Old Testament, but also to the letters they wrote which later became the canon of Scripture. It matters not that some of it was written a few years after Paul's letter to Timothy, because the Holy Spirit knew exactly what was and wasn't going to be included in the canon when he compelled Paul to call all Scripture God-breathed.
Now unless you choose to side with unbelievers and critics and call the Pastoral epistles pseudepigraphical, and start messing with tradionally held dates of authorship, there is no refuting these passages.
Darias wrote:Just because someone is inspired by God, it does not make them inerrant. Paul's views towards women and slavery make this fact self-evident, unless of course you want to believe that God was fine with the subjugation of women and the institution of slavery.
Yes. The Bible teaches about women's roles in Church and in marriage. It also never abrogates slavery. These weren't Paul's views, but God's. We accept this as Christians. Your argument that since some Christians sweep the role of women under the rug while upholding the clear prohibition of homosexuality doesn't hold water. God's Word isn't determined by the actions of some Christians. It says what it says regardless.
I am still very interested in this discussion in our other thread, and perhaps I will have a change of heart and continue the debate we were having about women and homosexuals. We'll see. I'm still trying to shake the whole schizophrenia accusation, and I haven't succeeded in doing so yet.
