Claim 1: Jesus was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 2: Krishna was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 3: Buddha was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 4: Mitra was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 5: Marduk was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 6: Horus was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 7: Notachance NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 8: Perseus was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 9: Theseus was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 10: Dionyus was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 11: Hercules was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 12: Pan was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 13: Ion was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 14: Romulus was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 15: Asclepius was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 16: Helen was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 17: Alexander the Great was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 18: Augustus was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 19: Zarathustra was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 20: Huitzilopochtli was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 21: Pharaoh Amenkept III was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 22: The sun God Ra was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 23: Genghis Khan was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 24: Melanippe was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 25: Auge was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 26: Attis was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 27: Antiope was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Claim 28: Auge was NOT conceived in a normal man-and-woman-have-sex way
Author of claim: Unknown
Date claim was made: Unknown
Empirical evidence in support of claim: None
Questions for debate:
Is there any good reason to take all of these claims seriously?
Is there are any good reasons to take half of them seriously, but not the other half?
Is there any good reason to take one of them seriously, but take all the other ones not seriously?
If you had a personal religious experience in which a voice in your head told you that Genghis Khan was born of a virgin, would you believe it? If not, why not?
The virgin birth story. Should we believe it?
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Re: The virgin birth story. Should we believe it?
Post #141Fair enough.S-word wrote:You will address me with the respect that every person on this forum deserves and is intitled to receive, otherwise you will be ignored.
Come back when you learn to speak in a language that can be understood. I have neither the time nor the inclination to attempt to sift through a bucket full of verbal dysentery in search of logic that I know before hand, will not be there.
I made the baseless, unwarranted, senseless, evidence-free statement that the Lord of the Rings is "revealed truth from God".
You made the baseless, unwarranted, senseless, evidence-free statement that the Bible is "revealed truth from God".
Why don't we both retract our outlandish faith-statements, and resume our debate from where it was sidetracked by baseless religious propaganda and childhood indoctrination.
I have ZERO empirical evidence that the Lord of the Rings is "revealed truth from God".
You have ZERO empirical evidence that the Bible is "revealed truth from God".
Let's never bring up this silliness about "revealed truth from God" ever again, because neither of us can back up such a claim with any empirical evidence whatsoever, agreed?
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Re: The virgin birth story. Should we believe it?
Post #142S-word wrote:I am the mind/spirit that has developed and continues to evolve within this mortal three dimensional body, from all the experiences and information that is taken in through the senses of this body, If this body were born without the senses of sight, hearing , smell, taste, touch, then “I� could never have developed, and “I� am a fourth dimensional being, who will be born into the invisible fourth dimension that co-exists within this visible dimension, when the umbilical cord that binds me to this three dimensional world is severed with the death of this body. You wish to know who my spiritual Mother is, well let me assure you that she is not the universal church that was established by the non-christian King Constantine in 325 AD.Composer wrote:It's a pity the poster's ID doesn't show what denomination or ideology / philosophy etc. is associated with the particular poster (e.g. S-word).S-word wrote: [font=Arial]Do you alway rabbit on and rant rubbishing senseless rhetoric such as the above?
If you have nothing intelligent to contribute to the debate, perhaps someone might be able to offer you a toilet bowl in which you can dribble your waste waffle.[/font]
For my records S-word, you appear to be one of those also claiming to be a ' christian? '.
Please confirm?
I am not a son of any particular religious, scientific, or philosophical body of belief, I am a son of the body of mankind, and I harvest from fields in which I have never sown, nor labored in. I eat from the tables that are prepared by all the diverse bodies of belief, and I believe in an eternal cyclic universe, as taught by our indwelling Father to all the nations of the earth.
Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.� ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.
The days and nights of Brahma are called Manvantara or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day,’ which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. ‘Manvantara,’ is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, ‘Pralaya,’ is the evening that proceeds the next creative day. The six periods of Creation and the seventh day of rest in which we now exist are referred to in the book of Genesis as the generations of the universe.
The English word “Generation,� is translated from the Hebrew “toledoth� which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as ‘births,’ or ‘descendants,’ such as “These are the generations of Adam,� or “these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or the heavens and earth, etc. And the ‘Great Day’ in which the seven generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period, or the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection are allowed to enter, where they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, while those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the seven physical cycles that perpetually revolve within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.
The first day, or rather the first generation of the universe as we know it today, was only Light, massive first generation stars, and evening descended when those stars imploded in upon themselves and were condensed back into the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity of origin, which singularity, would later be spatially separated once again and the second generation of the universe would come into existence etc.
Origen, was a Christian writer and teacher who lived between the years of 185 and 254 AD. Among his many works is the Hexapla, which is his interpretation of the Old Testament texts. Origen holds to a series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it. Every universe from the first to the last, from the smallest to the greatest, which have been created throughout the aeons of eternity, still exist in their independent Space-Time positions within the eternal and boundless cosmos.
The New international Version, the Scofield Referrence Bible, and the Companion Bible, all note that the phase in Genesis 1: 2; The earth was formless and void (Having neither shape or mass) should be correctly translated, “The earth became without form and void.� The Hebrew word “Hayah� translated “was,� means “To become, occur, come to pass, Be.� (Vines Complete Expository of Old and New Testament Words, 1985. “To Be.�)
A Black Hole is a massive system so centrally condensed that the force of gravity prevents everything within it, even light from escaping. But how many Black Holes are out there in the boundlessness of the eternal cosmos? How much dark matter is hidden within those Black Holes? Nobody knows, science is still coming to grips with Black Holes, which are believed to be at the centre of all galaxies, and Black Holes devour everything of lesser mass that comes in contact with them.
Our Milky Way galaxy is said to be anchored in space by a super Black hole, which has a mass of over three million suns, and around the Super Black Hole at the centre of our Galaxy, orbits many other black holes, which were once at the centre of other galactic bodies that have merged with ours. The larger Magellanic Cloud (Nebecula Major) and the smaller Magellanic Cloud (Nebecula Minor) are two galaxies that are orbiting our Milky Way galaxy that orbits the central Super Black Hole to which those Magellanic Clouds are being gathered and will one day merge with our galaxy. The Super Black Hole at the centre of our being, will continue to grow as it devours the other lesser black Holes and dying stars and planets within this galaxy. And yet our galaxy is but one of billions of galaxies that are falling in toward one of the many massive super gatherers scattered throughout the boundlessness of the eternal cosmos.
For my own benefit, I classify all those galactic clusters as universes’ (Universal bubbles) or living cells of the eternal cosmos, that are being drawn into one of the many Great Gatherers, where they are torn to pieces and the quantum of all matter is accelerated through the worm hole to speeds far, far in excess to that of the speed of light, where they are spewed out somewhere way beyond the cosmic horizon as liquid-like electromagnetic energy in the billions and billions of degrees, where the intellect that had evolved within the previous universal body awakens and cries out “Let there be light� as that particular Son of God witness’ the resurrection of its body that had descended into the seemingly bottomless pit as it is recreated from the quantum of that electromagnetic energy, wherein its new position in Space-Time it would take billions and billions of years for the light from its pervious position to reach it.
If the evolution of this three dimensional world that began with an infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity, which was enclosed within the fourth dimension, (Which it is) and our three dimensional world, had its beginnings with a Big Bang, then the cause of this three dimensional world would had to have been an entity which operates in a different time dimension than this three dimensional world and would have pre-existed the Big Bang.
The earth and mankind will exist forever, in that they are resurrected or rather recreated within each generation of the universe, which in reality is but the resurrection of the previous universal body that had descended into the seemingly bottomless pit. This is my belief at this point in time, but as I have said, I am still in the process of evolution.
I am who I am
May I never lose sight
Of the fact that I am
Who I am, day and night
I'm not who I was
Nor who I will be
For "Who I Am"
Is the name my God gave to me.

I am what I am, I'm Popeye the sailor man!
S-Word, I appreciate your poetic words. Probably not as much as the hippie girls in your drum circle appreciate them, but I still do appreciate them.
Nonetheless this is a debate forum, not a poetry club.
If you wish to claim that you are "a fourth dimensional being, who will be born into the invisible fourth dimension that co-exists within this visible dimension, when the umbilical cord that binds me to this three dimensional world is severed with the death of this body", then you have to BACK UP YOUR CLAIM WITH EVIDENCE.
There is a place and time for baseless claims about invisible 4th dimensions, sons of Gods and revealed truth in the Bible.
BUT THIS AIN'T IT!
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Re: The virgin birth story. Should we believe it?
Post #143Do you know what 'quote mining' is? Quote mining is taking a phrase out of context so it means something other than the original intent. That is what quote mining is.S-word wrote:Is "Quote mining" your original concept, or are you yourself, "Quote mining."Goat wrote:You are the one that presented it here, so, yes, it's your claims. And, it does show that Matthew used quote mining to make a theological point. In my opinion, quote mining is a form of deceit, and therefore lies.S-word wrote:Matthew 12: 15; But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence:: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all. (16) And charged them that they should not make him known. (17) That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying, (18) "Behold my servant, whom I have chosen: my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased; I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall show judgement to the Gentiles, etc, etc, etc."Goat wrote:This is what is known as 'Quote Mining'. Let's look at the context, to see who the servant is that Isaiah is talking about.S-word wrote: Isaiah 42: 1; The Lord says, “Here is my SERVANT, whom I strengthen—the one I have CHOSEN, with whom I am pleased. I have filled him with my spirit, and he will bring Justice to every nation.�
Isaiah identified the servant in the previous chapter.
Isaiah 41:8-9
8. But you, Israel My servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham, who loved Me,
9. Whom I grasped from the ends of the earth, and from its nobles I called you, and I said to you, "You are My servant"; I chose you and I did not despise you.
So the author of the forth servant song has specifically mentioned that the servant whom he is talking about is the nation of Israel.
Using that passage in the context of your claims is a total non-sequitor.
.
Using that passage in the context of your claims is a total non-sequitor.
Not my claims buddy, not my claims.[/u][/b]
In other words,
I ask you 'GOAT'
Is that your own
Original quote?
Do you understand??
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�
Steven Novella
Steven Novella
Re: The virgin birth story. Should we believe it?
Post #144So, what you are saying is, If Matthew was actually quoting the words that Jesus spoke, it was not Matthew who was "quote mining," but Jesus.Goat wrote:Do you know what 'quote mining' is? Quote mining is taking a phrase out of context so it means something other than the original intent. That is what quote mining is.S-word wrote:Is "Quote mining" your original concept, or are you yourself, "Quote mining."Goat wrote:You are the one that presented it here, so, yes, it's your claims. And, it does show that Matthew used quote mining to make a theological point. In my opinion, quote mining is a form of deceit, and therefore lies.S-word wrote:Matthew 12: 15; But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence:: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all. (16) And charged them that they should not make him known. (17) That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying, (18) "Behold my servant, whom I have chosen: my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased; I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall show judgement to the Gentiles, etc, etc, etc."Goat wrote:This is what is known as 'Quote Mining'. Let's look at the context, to see who the servant is that Isaiah is talking about.S-word wrote: Isaiah 42: 1; The Lord says, “Here is my SERVANT, whom I strengthen—the one I have CHOSEN, with whom I am pleased. I have filled him with my spirit, and he will bring Justice to every nation.�
Isaiah identified the servant in the previous chapter.
Isaiah 41:8-9
8. But you, Israel My servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham, who loved Me,
9. Whom I grasped from the ends of the earth, and from its nobles I called you, and I said to you, "You are My servant"; I chose you and I did not despise you.
So the author of the forth servant song has specifically mentioned that the servant whom he is talking about is the nation of Israel.
Using that passage in the context of your claims is a total non-sequitor.
.
Using that passage in the context of your claims is a total non-sequitor.
Not my claims buddy, not my claims.[/u][/b]
In other words,
I ask you 'GOAT'
Is that your own
Original quote?
Do you understand??
Or perhaps it was the King of the nation Israel, who chose Jesus from among the Israelites as revealed by Peter, to speak in His name, who was the one whom Isaiah 42: 1; was referring to. Not Jesus, who spoke not one word on his own aithority, but only that which he was commanded to say by his indwelling Lord, but "The Son Of Man," whose spirit descended on Jesus in the form of a dove.
In Psalms 2: 1-12; which is also referring to the promised Messianic King, who revealed himself through his chosen servant "Jesus," when speaking of the king God chose, (see verse 2) it is said in verse 7; "I will anounce," said the King, "what the Lord has declared. He said to me: 'You are my son; today I have become your Father. Ask, and I will give you all the nations; the whole earth will be yours. You will break them with an iron rod, and will shatter them in peices like a clay pot.
Acts 17: 31; For He (Our Lord and saviour) has fixed a day (The seventh period of one thousand years from the first day in which Adam ate of the forbidden tree and died in that day at the age of 930) in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death. The thousand year rule of the Messianic King of Israel.
From the Book of Jubilees 4: 30; “And He (Adam) lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: ‘On the day thou eat thereof ye shall die.’ For this reason Adam did not complete the years of that first day; for He died during it.�
As no godless atheist believes that a God exists, what you believe is totally irrelevant to a true believer, who accepts that the man Jesus was the one who was chosen as the earthly host body, through who "The Son of Man," the King and supreme ruler of all the earth, has revealed himself to we who await his salvation.
Re: The virgin birth story. Should we believe it?
Post #145Not respectful enough young fellow.notachance wrote:Fair enough.S-word wrote:You will address me with the respect that every person on this forum deserves and is intitled to receive, otherwise you will be ignored.
Come back when you learn to speak in a language that can be understood. I have neither the time nor the inclination to attempt to sift through a bucket full of verbal dysentery in search of logic that I know before hand, will not be there.
I made the baseless, unwarranted, senseless, evidence-free statement that the Lord of the Rings is "revealed truth from God".
You made the baseless, unwarranted, senseless, evidence-free statement that the Bible is "revealed truth from God".
Why don't we both retract our outlandish faith-statements, and resume our debate from where it was sidetracked by baseless religious propaganda and childhood indoctrination.
I have ZERO empirical evidence that the Lord of the Rings is "revealed truth from God".
You have ZERO empirical evidence that the Bible is "revealed truth from God".
Let's never bring up this silliness about "revealed truth from God" ever again, because neither of us can back up such a claim with any empirical evidence whatsoever, agreed?
Re: The virgin birth story. Should we believe it?
Post #146You really do not understand the concept of respectfulness do you?notachance wrote:S-word wrote:I am the mind/spirit that has developed and continues to evolve within this mortal three dimensional body, from all the experiences and information that is taken in through the senses of this body, If this body were born without the senses of sight, hearing , smell, taste, touch, then “I� could never have developed, and “I� am a fourth dimensional being, who will be born into the invisible fourth dimension that co-exists within this visible dimension, when the umbilical cord that binds me to this three dimensional world is severed with the death of this body. You wish to know who my spiritual Mother is, well let me assure you that she is not the universal church that was established by the non-christian King Constantine in 325 AD.Composer wrote:It's a pity the poster's ID doesn't show what denomination or ideology / philosophy etc. is associated with the particular poster (e.g. S-word).S-word wrote: [font=Arial]Do you alway rabbit on and rant rubbishing senseless rhetoric such as the above?
If you have nothing intelligent to contribute to the debate, perhaps someone might be able to offer you a toilet bowl in which you can dribble your waste waffle.[/font]
For my records S-word, you appear to be one of those also claiming to be a ' christian? '.
Please confirm?
I am not a son of any particular religious, scientific, or philosophical body of belief, I am a son of the body of mankind, and I harvest from fields in which I have never sown, nor labored in. I eat from the tables that are prepared by all the diverse bodies of belief, and I believe in an eternal cyclic universe, as taught by our indwelling Father to all the nations of the earth.
Universe after universe is like an interminable succession of wheels forever coming into view, forever rolling onwards, disappearing and reappearing; forever passing from being to non being, and again from non being to being. In short, the constant revolving of the wheel of life in one eternal cycle, according to fixed and immutable laws, is perhaps after all the sum and substance of the philosophy of Buddhism. And this eternal wheel has so to speak, six spokes representing six forms of existence.� ---- Mon. Williams, Buddhism, pp. 229, 122.
The days and nights of Brahma are called Manvantara or the cycle of manifestation, ‘The Great Day,’ which is a period of universal activity, that is preceded, and also followed by ‘Pralaya,’ a dark period, which to our finite minds seems as an eternity. ‘Manvantara,’ is a creative day as seen in the six days of creation in Genesis, ‘Pralaya,’ is the evening that proceeds the next creative day. The six periods of Creation and the seventh day of rest in which we now exist are referred to in the book of Genesis as the generations of the universe.
The English word “Generation,� is translated from the Hebrew “toledoth� which is used in the Old Testament in every instance as ‘births,’ or ‘descendants,’ such as “These are the generations of Adam,� or “these are the generations of Abraham, and Genesis 2: 4; These are the generations of the Universe or the heavens and earth, etc. And the ‘Great Day’ in which the seven generations of the universe are eternally repeated, is the eternal cosmic period, or the eighth eternal day in which those who attain to perfection are allowed to enter, where they shall be surrounded by great light and they shall experience eternal peace, while those who do not attain to perfection are cast back into the refining fires of the seven physical cycles that perpetually revolve within the eighth eternal cosmic cycle.
The first day, or rather the first generation of the universe as we know it today, was only Light, massive first generation stars, and evening descended when those stars imploded in upon themselves and were condensed back into the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity of origin, which singularity, would later be spatially separated once again and the second generation of the universe would come into existence etc.
Origen, was a Christian writer and teacher who lived between the years of 185 and 254 AD. Among his many works is the Hexapla, which is his interpretation of the Old Testament texts. Origen holds to a series of worlds following one upon the other,-- each world rising a step higher than the previous world, so that every later world brings to ripeness the seeds that were imbedded in the former, and itself then prepares the seed for the universe that will follow it. Every universe from the first to the last, from the smallest to the greatest, which have been created throughout the aeons of eternity, still exist in their independent Space-Time positions within the eternal and boundless cosmos.
The New international Version, the Scofield Referrence Bible, and the Companion Bible, all note that the phase in Genesis 1: 2; The earth was formless and void (Having neither shape or mass) should be correctly translated, “The earth became without form and void.� The Hebrew word “Hayah� translated “was,� means “To become, occur, come to pass, Be.� (Vines Complete Expository of Old and New Testament Words, 1985. “To Be.�)
A Black Hole is a massive system so centrally condensed that the force of gravity prevents everything within it, even light from escaping. But how many Black Holes are out there in the boundlessness of the eternal cosmos? How much dark matter is hidden within those Black Holes? Nobody knows, science is still coming to grips with Black Holes, which are believed to be at the centre of all galaxies, and Black Holes devour everything of lesser mass that comes in contact with them.
Our Milky Way galaxy is said to be anchored in space by a super Black hole, which has a mass of over three million suns, and around the Super Black Hole at the centre of our Galaxy, orbits many other black holes, which were once at the centre of other galactic bodies that have merged with ours. The larger Magellanic Cloud (Nebecula Major) and the smaller Magellanic Cloud (Nebecula Minor) are two galaxies that are orbiting our Milky Way galaxy that orbits the central Super Black Hole to which those Magellanic Clouds are being gathered and will one day merge with our galaxy. The Super Black Hole at the centre of our being, will continue to grow as it devours the other lesser black Holes and dying stars and planets within this galaxy. And yet our galaxy is but one of billions of galaxies that are falling in toward one of the many massive super gatherers scattered throughout the boundlessness of the eternal cosmos.
For my own benefit, I classify all those galactic clusters as universes’ (Universal bubbles) or living cells of the eternal cosmos, that are being drawn into one of the many Great Gatherers, where they are torn to pieces and the quantum of all matter is accelerated through the worm hole to speeds far, far in excess to that of the speed of light, where they are spewed out somewhere way beyond the cosmic horizon as liquid-like electromagnetic energy in the billions and billions of degrees, where the intellect that had evolved within the previous universal body awakens and cries out “Let there be light� as that particular Son of God witness’ the resurrection of its body that had descended into the seemingly bottomless pit as it is recreated from the quantum of that electromagnetic energy, wherein its new position in Space-Time it would take billions and billions of years for the light from its pervious position to reach it.
If the evolution of this three dimensional world that began with an infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity, which was enclosed within the fourth dimension, (Which it is) and our three dimensional world, had its beginnings with a Big Bang, then the cause of this three dimensional world would had to have been an entity which operates in a different time dimension than this three dimensional world and would have pre-existed the Big Bang.
The earth and mankind will exist forever, in that they are resurrected or rather recreated within each generation of the universe, which in reality is but the resurrection of the previous universal body that had descended into the seemingly bottomless pit. This is my belief at this point in time, but as I have said, I am still in the process of evolution.
I am who I am
May I never lose sight
Of the fact that I am
Who I am, day and night
I'm not who I was
Nor who I will be
For "Who I Am"
Is the name my God gave to me.
I am what I am, I'm Popeye the sailor man!
S-Word, I appreciate your poetic words. Probably not as much as the hippie girls in your drum circle appreciate them, but I still do appreciate them.
Nonetheless this is a debate forum, not a poetry club.
If you wish to claim that you are "a fourth dimensional being, who will be born into the invisible fourth dimension that co-exists within this visible dimension, when the umbilical cord that binds me to this three dimensional world is severed with the death of this body", then you have to BACK UP YOUR CLAIM WITH EVIDENCE.
There is a place and time for baseless claims about invisible 4th dimensions, sons of Gods and revealed truth in the Bible.
BUT THIS AIN'T IT!
Why don't you read, "Cosmos" which is a popular science book by astronomer and Pulitzer Prize-winning author Carl Sagan. He may reveal to you, something of the fourth dimension in which this three dimensional cyclic universe is enclosed.
I refuse to come down to your level of debate.
- Goat
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Re: The virgin birth story. Should we believe it?
Post #147Which would then make Jesus dishonest.. your point? A quote mine is a quote mine is a quote mine. Of course, you can't show that Matthew was correct about what Jesus said. It comes down to 'who do you think is the dishonest one'. Matthew or Jesus.S-word wrote:[
So, what you are saying is, If Matthew was actually quoting the words that Jesus spoke, it was not Matthew who was "quote mining," but Jesus.
That isn't what the words of Isaiah say.,,and the term 'son of man' was a euphemism meaning just a man.
Or perhaps it was the King of the nation Israel, who chose Jesus from among the Israelites as revealed by Peter, to speak in His name, who was the one whom Isaiah 42: 1; was referring to. Not Jesus, who spoke not one word on his own aithority, but only that which he was commanded to say by his indwelling Lord, but "The Son Of Man," whose spirit descended on Jesus in the form of a dove.
And, it still does not address the issue about Isaiah being quote mined.
Uh. Pslam 2 is about King David, not Jesus. It is entitled "A Psalm of DavidIn Psalms 2: 1-12; which is also referring to the promised Messianic King, who revealed himself through his chosen servant "Jesus," when speaking of the king God chose, (see verse 2) it is said in verse 7; "I will anounce," said the King, "what the Lord has declared. He said to me: 'You are my son; today I have become your Father. Ask, and I will give you all the nations; the whole earth will be yours. You will break them with an iron rod, and will shatter them in peices like a clay pot.
That's the claim.. but can you show that claim is true, and I would love to see what that has to do with the virgin birth.Acts 17: 31; For He (Our Lord and saviour) has fixed a day (The seventh period of one thousand years from the first day in which Adam ate of the forbidden tree and died in that day at the age of 930) in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death. The thousand year rule of the Messianic King of Israel.
In absence of any tangible evidence, all sorts of wild claims can be made. Can you show it's true?? What has this to do with the virgin birth?From the Book of Jubilees 4: 30; “And He (Adam) lacked seventy years of one thousand years; for one thousand years are as one day in the testimony of the heavens and therefore was it written concerning the tree of knowledge: ‘On the day thou eat thereof ye shall die.’ For this reason Adam did not complete the years of that first day; for He died during it.�
OF course, retreating to 'what you believe is irrelevant to a true believer' does seem to be the default retreat when you are unable to back up your claims.As no godless atheist believes that a God exists, what you believe is totally irrelevant to a true believer, who accepts that the man Jesus was the one who was chosen as the earthly host body, through who "The Son of Man," the King and supreme ruler of all the earth, has revealed himself to we who await his salvation.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�
Steven Novella
Steven Novella
Post #148
catalyst wrote:Composer wrote:[font=Arial]But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting. {everlasting: Heb. the days of eternity} (Micah 5:2) KJV Story book
Why were there NO High Priests, nor Sadducees, nor Pharisees in attendence at Bethlehem IF the birth of this highly anticipated and prophesied ' Jewish Messiah ' was to be born in Bethlehem according to the well-known prophecy of Micah 5:2, known well enough that simple shepherds were aware (apparently?).
Also, interestingly enough to read Micah 5:2, Bethlehem Ephratah is a clan and not actually a PLACE (as in: town, city, village..etc).
Hmm!, where did you get that from, you provided no legitimate evidence?
Conversely, the following sources state: e.g. -
Ephratah was the ancient name of Bethlehem Judah during the time of Jacob, the father of the twelve tribes. There was much history in this location, Jacob buried his beloved Rachel near the gate at Bethlehem, it also was the home of Ruth and the birthplace of king David, and of course "David's greater son" the Lord Jesus Christ. Bethlehem means the House of Bread, and the land was inherited by the tribe of Judah, the messianic tribe. (Source: http://www.bible-history.com/sketches/i ... ratah.html (My Emphasis))
&
Strong's renders Micha 5:2
BDB/Thayers # 672
0672 'Ephraath {ef-rawth'} or 'Ephrathah {ef-raw'-thaw}
from 06509;;
AV - Ephrath 5, Ephratah 5; 10
Ephrath or Ephratah = "ash-heap: place of fruitfulness"
n pr loc
1) a place near Bethel where Rachel died and was buried
2) another name for Bethlehemn pr f
3) wife of Caleb [/font]
&
Shepherds allegedly ' made it known abroad ' after their visit to see the babe Jesus, so the Jews would undoubetdly have also been informed or made aware, but there is no record of them even bothering to see for themselves. That proves again, that the whole incident is spurious. - And when they had seen [it], they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child. 18 And all they that heard [it] wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds. (Luke 2:17 - 18) KJV story book
Having seen and, they published around the declaration that having been told to them concerning the little child this. Luke 2:18 And all those having heard wondered about those having been told by the shepherds to them. (Luke 2:17 - 18) EMPHATIC DIAGLOTT (LHS) story book
And having seen it, they published THAT DECLARATION which had been SPOKEN to them about this CHILD. 18 And All THOSE HAVING HEARD, wondered at the THINGS RELATED to them by the SHEPHERDS. (Luke 2:17 - 18) EMPHATIC DIAGLOTT (RHS) story book
Hence you other conclusions are likewise currently in serious doubt as to their legitimacy?

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Re: The virgin birth story. Should we believe it?
Post #149Alright, I'll say it even more respectfully:S-word wrote:Not respectful enough young fellow.notachance wrote:Fair enough.S-word wrote:You will address me with the respect that every person on this forum deserves and is intitled to receive, otherwise you will be ignored.
Come back when you learn to speak in a language that can be understood. I have neither the time nor the inclination to attempt to sift through a bucket full of verbal dysentery in search of logic that I know before hand, will not be there.
I made the baseless, unwarranted, senseless, evidence-free statement that the Lord of the Rings is "revealed truth from God".
You made the baseless, unwarranted, senseless, evidence-free statement that the Bible is "revealed truth from God".
Why don't we both retract our outlandish faith-statements, and resume our debate from where it was sidetracked by baseless religious propaganda and childhood indoctrination.
I have ZERO empirical evidence that the Lord of the Rings is "revealed truth from God".
You have ZERO empirical evidence that the Bible is "revealed truth from God".
Let's never bring up this silliness about "revealed truth from God" ever again, because neither of us can back up such a claim with any empirical evidence whatsoever, agreed?
Your eminence,
While I am a mere mortal and your enlightened perfections shines upon the entire world with the brightness of a thousand supernovas, it seems that the debate we were having - which I found educational in the extreme, given your wisdom and scholarly acumen - was derailed by an accidental misstatement from your illustrious part, whereby you inadvertently stated, without any evidentiary backing whatsoever, that the Bible is revealed truth from God. While I obviously immediately accepted this as divine truth, being that it came from your illustrious eminence, it just so happens that the rules of this forum require that you PROVIDE EVIDENCE TO BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS. So, in his infinite wisdom and mercy, would his majestic highness please be so kind as to back up his claim that the Bible is any more "revealed truth" than the Lord of the Rings is?

Kidding aside, my friend, may I suggest you lighten up? Please don't take the silly message above as an insult or a snub, just as a suggestion that we pursue this debate vigorously, but with a light heart.

If you have empirical evidence that the Bible is "revealed truth from God", please present it. Otherwise, no monologues about God, no invocations about Hinduism, no false parallels between the space-time continuum (including the 4th dimension) and your new-age ideas about reality, are going to make a splash on this forum.
Just saying.
Last edited by notachance on Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The virgin birth story. Should we believe it?
Post #150The next ' true believer ' to legitimately manifest the bible Story book promises ' already a given ' to such a person, will be the very first outside of that Story book in history!S-word wrote: . . . . , what you believe is totally irrelevant to a true believer, who accepts that the man Jesus was the one who was chosen as the earthly host body, through who "The Son of Man," the King and supreme ruler of all the earth, has revealed himself to we who await his salvation.
For starters, IF you S-word truly consider your self a ' true and genuine Story book jesus' believer ' are you (OR any other that feels inclined to have arrogated that title for themselves) willing to demonstrate their/your abilities to legitimately manifest those promises ' already a given ' to such a jesus' believer?
By way of initial eligibility (NB: all your predecessors failed before you) however they admitted that ALL so called christians are malignant sinners and they quoted the following as their proof -
but I see a different law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity under the law of sin which is in my members. (Romans 7:23) ASV Story book
So ANY wishing to step up and be scrutinised for legitimacy first please advise ' if you agree with Romans 7:23 that you are ALL still a practising or active Story book defined sinner? '.
OR
Legitimately demonstrate Romans 7:23 is incorrect according to your beliefs and that you have already successfully become a mirror image of your Story book human jesus and ceased ALL forms of sin (apparently?)
Once eligibility has been confirmed, I will expect those successfull entrants to move to the primary stage and legitimately manifest ALL the Story book bible promises ' already a given to a genuine jesus' believer '.
Typical BS excuses for their prophesied and impending abject 100% failure will be permitted out of my ongoing benevolence, however such 100% typical previous outbursts will not be counted as legitimate support for their current cause but in fairness used against it!
So I'm ready when you are S-word or any of your like -minded associates wish to ' step-up for eligibility to start ' so IF needed, start a New Thread and try your luck? LOL!

Your alleged gods are very bad god persons, I am offering them the chance to become good god persons for the very first time, but only after they admit they are bad god persons and want to try again.