Is this "hate speech"?

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Do any of these statements constitute hate speech?

Poll ended at Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:03 pm

Yes, at least some of this is hate speech
4
31%
No, none of it looks like hate speech
9
69%
 
Total votes: 13

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EduChris
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Is this "hate speech"?

Post #1

Post by EduChris »

Which (if any) of the following remarks might be construed as "hate speech"?

1. There is conclusive evidence that atheism causes people to be more mean, more selfish, and perhaps above all, more stupid.

2. Atheism is the painless explanation for the retarded the development of civilization.

3. All non-theisms are versions of the same untruth; atheistic belief is positively harmful.

4. It is difficult to imagine a set of beliefs more suggestive of mental illness than atheism.

5. One of the truly bad effects of atheism is that it teaches us that it is a virtue to be satisfied with not understanding philosophy and logic.

6. When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called atheism.

7. The meme for atheism secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.

8. Though the details differ across the world, no known culture lacks some version of the hostility provoking, anti-factual, counter-productive fantisies of atheism.

9. Atheism teaches you to be satisfied with nonanswers. It’s a sort of crime against childhood.

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JoeyKnothead
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Post #61

Post by JoeyKnothead »

From Post 60:
Moses Yoder wrote: ...
Now, my question is, is that hate speech or what?
Expected speech.

When one worships a book or religion that is so damning of all who disagree, I find most often those proponents can be just as hateful as the god they worship.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
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Oldfarmhouse
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Post #62

Post by Oldfarmhouse »

JoeyKnothead wrote:From Post 60:
Moses Yoder wrote: ...
Now, my question is, is that hate speech or what?
Expected speech.

When one worships a book or religion that is so damning of all who disagree, I find most often those proponents can be just as hateful as the god they worship.
Oh -- you just don't understand -- God's hatred is a good and special kind of hatred and people like you who are not good and special wont see that.

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Post #63

Post by McCulloch »

:warning: Moderator Warning



Please review our Rules.

JoeyKnothead wrote: Oh, no! It makes the baby Jesus cry!
This is a decidedly uncivil way to make your point. Try to debate in a less condescending and inflammatory manor.
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Post #64

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Of course.

Calling me stupid is totally NOT "hate speech".

But God forbid I mention Jesus might weep about something someone does.
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Post #65

Post by JoeyKnothead »

Oldfarmhouse wrote:
JoeyKnothead wrote:From Post 60:
Moses Yoder wrote: ...
Now, my question is, is that hate speech or what?
Expected speech.

When one worships a book or religion that is so damning of all who disagree, I find most often those proponents can be just as hateful as the god they worship.
Oh -- you just don't understand -- God's hatred is a good and special kind of hatred and people like you who are not good and special wont see that.
I hear ya. Just so long as one references the Bible in spilling their bile, we who oppose are held to a standard of "well, that's what them folks allow and y'all ought not carry on like they all them do".

This is the special standard the theist creates for themselves - "My god's all loving and all manner of carrin' on. But He hates you, and you, and you, and you, and you and you, dont' you think we didn't see you hidin' in the corner, we're hatin' you too!"

And damn you if you turn my hatred back on me! That's uncivil. That's foul! That's uncalled for!

'"Cause I love a lovin' God!"

"And my loving God hates you, you non-believer you!"

I contend that we have, as a society, become accepting of religious condemnation of 'others', while utterly and fully rejecting how or why others may express an opposing view.

But goldangint don't you say anything in opposition to may magical beliefs!

You effijn' pagin you!
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

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Post #66

Post by Autodidact »

.............and please note: I am NOT claiming that the theist threats do not exist, or that they 'aren't as bad' as you think. They are--and I am the last person on the planet to condone it. I would like to point out, however, that atheists really can't point to multiple million massacres of atheists by theists because of their atheism.

All I am saying, here, is that atheists simply cannot claim the high ground here. After all, if you had to choose between an bill board or internet comment and a bullet to the head, which would YOU pick as being the more offensive?
It wasn't an atheist starting this thread complaining about hate speech, diana, it was a Christian. I merely pointed out that while he's complaining about people merely criticizing Christianity, Christians are threatening to murder and rape atheists. This for some reason fails to excite his interest.

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Post #67

Post by dianaiad »

Autodidact wrote:
.............and please note: I am NOT claiming that the theist threats do not exist, or that they 'aren't as bad' as you think. They are--and I am the last person on the planet to condone it. I would like to point out, however, that atheists really can't point to multiple million massacres of atheists by theists because of their atheism.

All I am saying, here, is that atheists simply cannot claim the high ground here. After all, if you had to choose between an bill board or internet comment and a bullet to the head, which would YOU pick as being the more offensive?
It wasn't an atheist starting this thread complaining about hate speech, diana, it was a Christian. I merely pointed out that while he's complaining about people merely criticizing Christianity, Christians are threatening to murder and rape atheists. This for some reason fails to excite his interest.
I think...two things:

First, it may not 'excite his interest' because he's not one of the people making the threats, but he IS among those receiving those uncivil comments. Does the fact that someone ELSE is being offensive to other people justify others being hateful to him? ....or, to put it another way, if the boat is sinking, does it much matter which end of it goes down first?

Second, there's also this other thing--it's hard to get excited about threats that are not realized, when the reality is that atheists didn't THREATEN. They simply killed.

I guess, for me, given all the insults, put downs, disrespect and mockery I've been on the receiving end of for years--including actual rocks being thrown at me as well as words, I just don't have the patience to put up with the 'oh, poor me' attitude that the atheists here are exhibiting. The fact is, rhetoric, as bad as it is (and it's bad, no question) does not equal action.

The theists may threaten, but I know of nobody who has actually acted upon those threats, do you? There might be a nutcase or two out there, even though I don't know of one--but I honestly don't know any theist who has actually picked up a gun and started shooting atheists because they were atheists.

Atheists, however....well...they went straight to the shooting. By the millions.

So please excuse me if I'm just not that impressed, here.

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Post #68

Post by Autodidact »

dianaiad wrote:
Autodidact wrote:
.............and please note: I am NOT claiming that the theist threats do not exist, or that they 'aren't as bad' as you think. They are--and I am the last person on the planet to condone it. I would like to point out, however, that atheists really can't point to multiple million massacres of atheists by theists because of their atheism.

All I am saying, here, is that atheists simply cannot claim the high ground here. After all, if you had to choose between an bill board or internet comment and a bullet to the head, which would YOU pick as being the more offensive?
It wasn't an atheist starting this thread complaining about hate speech, diana, it was a Christian. I merely pointed out that while he's complaining about people merely criticizing Christianity, Christians are threatening to murder and rape atheists. This for some reason fails to excite his interest.
I think...two things:

First, it may not 'excite his interest' because he's not one of the people making the threats, but he IS among those receiving those uncivil comments. Does the fact that someone ELSE is being offensive to other people justify others being hateful to him? ....or, to put it another way, if the boat is sinking, does it much matter which end of it goes down first?

Second, there's also this other thing--it's hard to get excited about threats that are not realized, when the reality is that atheists didn't THREATEN. They simply killed.

I guess, for me, given all the insults, put downs, disrespect and mockery I've been on the receiving end of for years--including actual rocks being thrown at me as well as words, I just don't have the patience to put up with the 'oh, poor me' attitude that the atheists here are exhibiting. The fact is, rhetoric, as bad as it is (and it's bad, no question) does not equal action.

The theists may threaten, but I know of nobody who has actually acted upon those threats, do you? There might be a nutcase or two out there, even though I don't know of one--but I honestly don't know any theist who has actually picked up a gun and started shooting atheists because they were atheists.

Atheists, however....well...they went straight to the shooting. By the millions.

So please excuse me if I'm just not that impressed, here.
Are you serious? Christians have killed more people than everyone else combined. And I'm not even counting how many people Muslims have killed. Christians have killed Jews, witches, accused witches, Protestants, Catholics, Native Americans, Muslims and each other. By the millions. Give me a break.

On October 18, 2004, Arthur Shelton, a self described Christian and Eagle Scout, murdered his friend and roommate, Larry Hooper, because Hooper didn't believe in God.
from here: http://www.parallelpac.org/murder.htm

I challenge you to find a parallel case, in which, in contemporary America, an Atheist has killed a Christian for being a Christian.

But that's not what this thread is about. It's about the OP thinking that if people criticize his views, it's hate speech. My point is that Christians don't criticize atheists; they threaten to kill us. That's hate speech. Oh, and then they go ahead and do it. That's the point of hate speech; it incites violence.

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Post #69

Post by Oldfarmhouse »

Today -- right here in the United States as we speak there are numerous organized violent and dangerous hate cults. The KKK, Christian Identity Movement, Aryan Nations, Army of God, Focus on the Family, Operation Rescue, etc. All of them involved in violent criminal activity.

I will be fair and say that not every violent hate cult member in the US today is decidedly Christian -- it's more like 98.9%

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Post #70

Post by dianaiad »

Autodidact wrote:
dianaiad wrote:
Autodidact wrote:
.............and please note: I am NOT claiming that the theist threats do not exist, or that they 'aren't as bad' as you think. They are--and I am the last person on the planet to condone it. I would like to point out, however, that atheists really can't point to multiple million massacres of atheists by theists because of their atheism.

All I am saying, here, is that atheists simply cannot claim the high ground here. After all, if you had to choose between an bill board or internet comment and a bullet to the head, which would YOU pick as being the more offensive?
It wasn't an atheist starting this thread complaining about hate speech, diana, it was a Christian. I merely pointed out that while he's complaining about people merely criticizing Christianity, Christians are threatening to murder and rape atheists. This for some reason fails to excite his interest.
I think...two things:

First, it may not 'excite his interest' because he's not one of the people making the threats, but he IS among those receiving those uncivil comments. Does the fact that someone ELSE is being offensive to other people justify others being hateful to him? ....or, to put it another way, if the boat is sinking, does it much matter which end of it goes down first?

Second, there's also this other thing--it's hard to get excited about threats that are not realized, when the reality is that atheists didn't THREATEN. They simply killed.

I guess, for me, given all the insults, put downs, disrespect and mockery I've been on the receiving end of for years--including actual rocks being thrown at me as well as words, I just don't have the patience to put up with the 'oh, poor me' attitude that the atheists here are exhibiting. The fact is, rhetoric, as bad as it is (and it's bad, no question) does not equal action.

The theists may threaten, but I know of nobody who has actually acted upon those threats, do you? There might be a nutcase or two out there, even though I don't know of one--but I honestly don't know any theist who has actually picked up a gun and started shooting atheists because they were atheists.

Atheists, however....well...they went straight to the shooting. By the millions.

So please excuse me if I'm just not that impressed, here.
Are you serious? Christians have killed more people than everyone else combined.
Yes, Christians have gone and killed people.

But 'more than everyone else combined?" Sorry, but the stats and the facts don't support you there.

Let's just look at one person; Mao Zedong, he of the 'religion is the opiate of the masses' and the Cultural Revolution which made a point of destroying every religious icon and building available; the man who almost singlehandedly did more ruin to the Chinese culture and religious tradition than thousands of years of outside invasion managed....42,000,000 people killed. (actually, it's close to 76 million, but I'm only counting the ones that are directly attributable to Mao in his quest for 'cultural revolution,' including the forced destruction of religion.

Stalin...61 million.
(not counting Germany, so don't get huffy about Hitler.)

Pol Pot: 2.3 million--about 1 in every eight of his people.

Indeed, according to R.J.Rummel, who actually coined the word 'democide,' the total of people killed by atheist leaders (that is, leaders whose goals included the elimination of religion) the death toll reaches close to 259 MILLION people dead.

Not including those killed by Hitler and religious wars during the same era. These non-atheist groups, Germany, Japan, China under Chiang Kai-shek and others total 38 million. That's bad...but compared to 259 Million?

Now I"m going to 'ex-Christian.com,' for the numbers of people killed at the hands of Christians in any area in which religion played any part. I'm excluding those wars in which religion did NOT play a part--that's fair, since I'm excluding Hitler in the democide total.

Crusades: (isn't this the biggie?) 1.5 million. Total actively murdered by Christians with religious aspects (including the Cathars, the Albegensians, witch burnings, the Inquisition, "Catholic" concentration camps....1700 years of history: approximately 29 million people.

Now this isn't good. However, when you compare this, you get the following: 259 million divided by 38 million...nearly seven times as many dead in one century of atheist attention than in seventeen hundred years of Christian violence. To compare apples to apples here, we can go a bit further: figure that Christians were responsible for the deaths of 22,353 people per year, for 1700 years. If we spread the deaths caused by atheist leaders out over that same 1700 years, we get, oh...152,353 dead people per year. SIX TIMES AS MANY. Six...and the atheist leaders managed, in less than a century, to kill six times as many people as Christians did in 1700 years.

..............and I didn't count the deaths at the hands of earlier atheistic regimes, like the French Revolution.

Nor did I count against atheists the deaths caused by those whose religion is murky...like, oh, Hitler, Mussolini, folks like that.

I'm sorry...but the numbers simply are not on your side in this one.




Even the atrocities of the Mayan/Incan cultures didn't bump the numbers up enough to compete.
Autodidact wrote:I have the facts to back me up.
No, actually. You don't.
Autodidact wrote:And I'm not even counting how many people Muslims have killed. Christians have killed Jews, witches, accused witches, Protestants, Catholics, Native Americans, Muslims and each other. By the millions. Give me a break.
I did better than that. I gave you the numbers.

Autodidact wrote:On October 18, 2004, Arthur Shelton, a self described Christian and Eagle Scout, murdered his friend and roommate, Larry Hooper, because Hooper didn't believe in God.
from here: http://www.parallelpac.org/murder.htm

I challenge you to find a parallel case, in which, in contemporary America, an Atheist has killed a Christian for being a Christian.
Jared Loughner. He managed to kill six people...and yes, he did it partly because he was an atheist out to force his nihilism upon others. In other words, while he may not have killed these people 'because they were Christians,' he most certainly did it because he was an atheist.
Autodidact wrote:But that's not what this thread is about. It's about the OP thinking that if people criticize his views, it's hate speech. My point is that Christians don't criticize atheists; they threaten to kill us. That's hate speech. Oh, and then they go ahead and do it. That's the point of hate speech; it incites violence.
Ok, make that 38,000,001 against the Christian tally.

You think 'hate speech' is only about threats of physical violence? Ok, then let's not use the term 'hate speech,' though many atheists have termed similarly couched statements AS hate speech when they are aimed at atheists and atheism. How about, just....uncalled for, stupid, bigotted, discriminatory, ill-mannered, mocking, and completely unlikely to get any sort of common ground or reasonable dialogue going between the two philosophical camps?

Why is it perfectly ok with atheists that Hitchens and Dawkins can say things like that, but when turned around, the world ends and everybody starts screaming 'YOU BURN WITCHES!???"

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