The Urantia Book

[McCulloch]

Yes, there is the eye witness account [to Jesus' resurrection] given in the Urantia Book.

Bro Dave has put forward the Book as eyewitness testimony to support the allegation that Jesus was raised from the dead. Is the Urantia Book a reliable source of information? Does it meet the criterion used by historians or scientists or theologians?

[Woody]

Hi McC,

Hmmmm.....well now you're asking me to pull God out of my pocket and show him to you.....for proof that God exists.

Friends, I have already answered this question. UB readers do not own the UB nor do they have anything to prove to anyone. True religion is entirely a matter of personal experience. The world and life itself does not belong to us....these things are matters between individual persons and God.

So there is no need for you to keep repeating these same questions while I keep repeating the same answers.

NO, I cannot prove to you that the UB is what it says it is. That is for YOU to decide for yourself if you desire to check into it. So check into for yourself or don't. Your choice. It doesn't really matter to me. I am not your keeper and I am not responsible for anything you do. Only you are.

BTW, the UB doesn't seek to take away from anyone any good thing that they currently possess. It only seeks to ADD to a persons knowledge, experience, insight and later on with eperiential effort.....increased wisdom.

Thanks for listening (reading)

Woody

[McCulloch]

UB readers do not own the UB nor do they have anything to prove to anyone. True religion is entirely a matter of personal experience. The world and life itself does not belong to us....these things are matters between individual persons and God. ... NO, I cannot prove to you that the UB is what it says it is. That is for YOU to decide for yourself if you desire to check into it. So check into for yourself or don't. Your choice. It doesn't really matter to me. I am not your keeper and I am not responsible for anything you do. Only you are. ...

Thank you Woody, I think that this sufficiently answers the question for debate, "Is the Urantia Book a reliable source of information? Does it meet the criterion used by historians or scientists or theologians?" The truth value of the Urantia Book is subjective therefore it cannot be used, as Bro Dave appeared to do, as objective historical evidence.

[Woody]

Hey McC,

But there is more. The UB covers science and history as well as cosmology, philosophy, religion and Jesus and many other things too.

One factor is the sheer volume of information it contains. I can hardly sit here and recite the book to you.

And what if I did? Would that "prove" anything to you?

You seemingly ask me to provide one quote from the book which....."proves" some point about something for (to) you. OK, if I did that....would that one thing get you to decide to read much less accept the Urantia Book today?

No? I didn't think so

Yes? Well that wouldn't make you appear as much of a scholar for so easily accepting one tidbit of information from a reference source which you yourself havn't read or studied yet.

How can I convince you you that the UB is worth your time to take a look see at? Hmmmm....I'm not sure. I have already stated my personal recommendation to this group to do so. What else can I do?

Back to the resturant down the street. So I recommend it to you. Are you going to ask me to go and buy you a 5 course meal from the place and deliver it to you so you can eat it, thereby "proving" to you my friendly recommendation of the place? That sounds unreasonable to me.

I offered a recommendation based on my personal experience. That is really all I can offer you my new friends at this point unless you can offer a diffferent suggestion for service? I'm all ears

He who has ears to hear and eyes to see.....let him hear and see

Reguards, Woody


oh, and BTW, what can I do with these tokens my posts are earning? Can I trade them in for a honey baked ham or something later ?

[McCulloch]

One factor is the sheer volume of information it contains. I can hardly sit here and recite the book to you.

I don't remember asking you to.

You seemingly ask me to provide one quote from the book which....."proves" some point about something for (to) you. OK, if I did that....would that one thing get you to decide to read much less accept the Urantia Book today?

But the topic for debate is not should I read the book, but should it be accepted as evidence. Whether you convince me to read it is not relevent to the topic. How about citing any reputable scholar, historian, scientist who uses the Urantia Book as an accepted source?

No? I didn't think so
Yes? Well that wouldn't make you appear as much of a scholar for so easily accepting one tidbit of information from a reference source which you yourself havn't read or studied yet.

No, such a tid bit would not automatically move the Urantia Book from the category of subjective opinion to trusted source. It would provide me with some evidence that the book was worth a closer look.

How can I convince you you that the UB is worth your time to take a look see at? Hmmmm....I'm not sure. I have already stated my personal recommendation to this group to do so. What else can I do?

Should I repeat myself? Here are a few things you could do to convince a rational person to look at the book.

• Cite one or two examples of the much proof and evidence of things both scientific and historic which you claim exist.
• Identify a few reputable scholars who accept the book.
• Provide some evidence that superplanetary beings exist.
• List the credentials of some of those who accept the claims of the Urantia Book to show that they have some expertise in the area of validating such claims.

Are any of these so hard to do?

Back to the resturant down the street. So I recommend it to you. Are you going to ask me to go and buy you a 5 course meal from the place and deliver it to you so you can eat it, thereby "proving" to you my friendly recommendation of the place? That sounds unreasonable to me.
I offered a recommendation based on my personal experience. That is really all I can offer you my new friends at this point unless you can offer a diffferent suggestion for service? I'm all ears.

If you were recommending the Urantia Book as simply an enjoyable experience, like a meal or a novel, then that would do. But, to extend your analogy, you are not recommending a resturant, your are recommending a diet plan. I would want expert opinion for that.

oh, and BTW, what can I do with these tokens my posts are earning? Can I trade them in for a honey baked ham or something later ?

Tokens . The problem is that the honey baked ham is a virtual honey baked ham. Personally, I use the tokens to avoid breaking the rule 9, No unconstructive one-liners posts are allowed in debates (Do not simply say "Ditto" or "I disagree" in a post. Such posts add little value to debates). If someone makes a post which I find valuable or gets me out of a hole that I have dug for myself or that saves me from doing some research to back up my position, I click on the "donate" link and send that user some tokens.

[Woody]

Oh good grief,

Mr. McC, I don't know how else to deal with you sir.

It's not my book. I have nothing to prove. This information is self evident. I am only offering a recommendation and an opinion.

This is all I can say.

Make use of the Urantia Book or don't. Either way your actions in this matter will have no meaningful effect on me.

Thanks,

Woody

[McCulloch]

Oh good grief ... It's not my book. I have nothing to prove. This information is self evident. I am only offering a recommendation and an opinion ... Make use of the Urantia Book or don't. Either way your actions in this matter will have no meaningful effect on me.

Thank you Woody, I think that this sufficiently answers the question for debate, "Is the Urantia Book a reliable source of information? Does it meet the criterion used by historians or scientists or theologians?" The truth value of the Urantia Book is subjective therefore it cannot be used, as Bro Dave appeared to do, as objective historical evidence.

[Woody]

Hey McC,

When you state: "it cannot be used"

That is your opinion and you speak only for yourself. So be it. Don't use.

But you're fooling and cheating yourself.

How wise is that? I see no wisdom there.

Similar thing happened to Jesus back in the day. The Jerusalem Jews rejected anything Jesus had to teach because he lacked credentials that they would recognize. Chumps

Don't be found doing the same thing in 2005

Sincerely,
Woody

[bernee51]

It's not my book. I have nothing to prove. This information is self evident. I am only offering a recommendation and an opinion.

Ho Woody and welcome. I've had a few discussions with Dave re Urantia and read portions of it.

To claim it's 'truths' as self-evident is the same claim biblical literalists make. It is a circularity.

Self evident, to me, indicates that it is evidence only to a believer. Evidence only to the believer is subjective. I think what McC (et al) are looking for is something objective.

Does Urantia offer anything objective?

Make use of the Urantia Book or don't.

Just as one can make use of any ot the many 'sacred scriptures'. All hold advice or information.

In what way is Urantia of any more value?

[Woody]

Hi Bernee and thanks for joining in,

Yes, the UB does offer much objective material. But again I politely decline to offer an example for the same reasons I offered to McC. This is a 2097 page book that's close to 3 inches thick.

If I offer such a passage that you seek, will that alone change your mind or intice you to read the whole book?

If you're interested in this extrordinary information......then such a notion answers your own question and you'll start reading it.

I can't go over to anybody's house and hold their hands. It is fair in reality to state that enough of a favor has been done you by Brother Dave and others by simply letting you know that this book exists.

The information in this book will itself answer your questions.

Say you develop in your mind a new interest in learning to play the piano because a friend of your plays and has told you about how great it is. Well....this skill and information (learning to play the piano) is not now just going to jump magically into your brain. You are going to have to join a class or otherwise take lessons...practice...and actually learn something. You are going to have to ACT to make this new thing a reality in your life.

So it may also be with this new learning available to you in the Urantia Book. Demanding of someone that they do something for you or prove something to you is akin to intellectualy lazyiness.

You have been told about " a pearl of great price" and that it is out in your front yard laying in your driveway. Won't you now get up out of your chair in the house and go outside and pick it up?

Reguards, Woody

[Bro Dave]

Supporters of the Urantia Book all seem somewhat reluctant to provide me with any reason to invest my time in reading it other than what boils down to, "well I liked it and trust it". Perhaps, if it is not too much trouble, you could provide just one or two examples of the "much proof and evidence of things both scientific and historic".

McCulloch, if I may add something, which although true, will be ignored. Still, it is so fundamental to this discussion that I feel obligated to offer it.
Humans are unique beings. No two of us are alike, and so, our needs and perceptions are likewise unique. This is a part of our basic design, and provides that nearly infinite experience base that God shares with us on this most exciting journey toward individual perfection. As we grow, we form opinions about our existence, and about what may lay beyond the physical realms. For those who find and experience what we refer to as the spiritual reality, their questions become penetrating enough to invest the time and the effort to deepen that understanding. (You already know the extent and directions of my search) It was not easy, and the cost was not insignificant. This is the difficult bit. Those who have not made such an investment are not likely to read the Urantia Book. Its not that the book is so difficult to read, although there are sections that will challenge any reader. The problem is the approach. If the reader is looking only for fault, he/she will find sufficient reasons to discard or ridicule its contents. If, however the reader is looking to deepen their understanding, they will have an experience like none they have ever had!
My reason for bringing the UB to the attention of others, is for this second type of person. I do not distain the first type of person, its just a waste of their time to open the book. Their path and their journey is as valid as any other, it just does not include this experience. Truth is unfolding within each of us, just in different ways. Of course, I wish you could peek inside my head, or Woodys head, and see what we see, but that rob you of your own unique path.
It so funny, and frustrating. You either "get it", or you dont. Every UB reader I know, has the same experience of finding the book, and getting so excited! They rush out to tell the world, only to find disinterest, and disdain or distrust. I really doubt there are more than half a dozen on this site who prepared for what it has to reveal. But, it is worth every effort to make sure they realize the UB exists. Who knows? You may be one!

Bro Dave