Did Christianity destroy Greek and Roman civilization?

[Imaginos]

Did Christianity destroy Greek and Roman civilization and create the Dark Ages?

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/dark-age.htm

I personally think it did.
In the Roman Empire prior Christianity there was a general freedom of religion and ideas.

That all changed after the Roman Empire became Christian, as Christians resolved to force Christianity on everyone.

Civilization or at least Europe went backwards as the intolerance of Christianity destroyed the architecure, the literature and much of the knowledge of Ancient Rome and Greece.

[Goat]

Did Christianity destroy Greek and Roman civilization and create the Dark Ages?

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/dark-age.htm

I personally think it did.
In the Roman Empire prior Christianity there was a general freedom of religion and ideas.

That all changed after the Roman Empire became Christian, as Christians resolved to force Christianity on everyone.

Civilization or at least Europe went backwards as the intolerance of Christianity destroyed the architecure, the literature and much of the knowledge of Ancient Rome and Greece.

I personally think that it is rather simplistic to say that it did. The factors that went into creating a single 'state run' religion for control was because the Roman empire was already in decline, and needed a mechanism for creating unity.

[Imaginos]

I personally think that it is rather simplistic to say that it did. The factors that went into creating a single 'state run' religion for control was because the Roman empire was already in decline, and needed a mechanism for creating unity.

But far from creating unity the intolerance of Christianity created division and conflict at every level of the Roman Empire.

[McCulloch]

Edward Gibbon certainly thought so. Today, historians tend to analyze economic and military factors in the decline of Rome. Christianity most likely simply mirrored the decline rather the caused or encouraged it.

[East of Eden]

The emperor Julian the Apostate thought so, on his deathbed saying the phrase "Vicisti, Galilaee", Latin for "You have conquered, O Galilean".

Early Christians stood in opposition to infanticide, degradation of women, gladiatorial combats, slavery, etc.

[McCulloch]

Early Christians stood in opposition to infanticide, degradation of women, gladiatorial combats, slavery, etc.

Interesting claim. Can you show that Early Christians (before 325) opposed these practices? Was there opposition for their own group (that is making it wrong for Christians to do these things) or were they opposed to society and government allowing or encouraging these things. Second, third and early fourth century sources, Christian and non-christian would be best. Although, reputable modern historians of that period would be acceptable.

[East of Eden]

Early Christians stood in opposition to infanticide, degradation of women, gladiatorial combats, slavery, etc.

Interesting claim. Can you show that Early Christians (before 325) opposed these practices? Was there opposition for their own group (that is making it wrong for Christians to do these things) or were they opposed to society and government allowing or encouraging these things. Second, third and early fourth century sources, Christian and non-christian would be best. Although, reputable modern historians of that period would be acceptable.

Why the arbitrary pre-325 date? Did Christians have power to stop things then? Dr. ML King agreed with me:

"There was a time when the church was very powerful–in the time when the early Christians rejoiced at being deemed worthy to suffer for what they believed. In those days the church was not merely a thermometer that recorded the ideas and principles of popular opinion; it was a thermostat that transformed the mores of society. Whenever the early Christians entered a town, the people in power became disturbed and immediately sought to convict the Christians for being "disturbers of the peace" and "outside agitators." But the Christians pressed on, in the conviction that they were "a colony of heaven," called to obey God rather than man. Small in number, they were big in commitment. They were too God intoxicated to be "astronomically intimidated." By their effort and example they brought an end to such ancient evils as infanticide and gladiatorial contests."

From "Letter from a Birmingham Jail"


This is from an article by Christopher Price, "Pagans, Christianity, and Infanticide":

"From its earliest creeds, Christians "absolutely prohibited" infanticide as "murder." Stark, op. cit., page 124. To Christians, the infant had value. Whereas pagans placed no value on infant life, Christians treated them as human beings. They viewed infanticide as the murder of a human being, not a convenient tool to rid society of excess females and perceived weaklings. The baby, whether male, female, perfect, or imperfect, was created in the image of God and therefore had value.

Early Christian documents reveal that there was a clash of cultures as Christianity converted previously pagan Romans and Greeks. Whereas Judaism prohibited infanticide by Jews, Christianity was converting pagans and instructing them that infanticide was immoral and murder. The Didache (90 -110 CE), an instruction manual for Christian converts, commanded "You shall not commit infanticide." Another early Christian document, the Epistle of Barnabas (130 CE), also explicitly condemned infanticide and prohibited its practices as necessary parts of the "way of light." Moreover, by the end of the second century, "Christians were not only proclaiming their rejection of abortion and infanticide, but had begun direct attacks on pagans, and especially pagan religions for sustaining such crimes." Stark, op. cit., page 125. Robin L. Fox also notes this activity: "Christians opposed much in the accepted practice of the pagan world. They vigorously attacked infanticide and the exposure of children." Fox, op. cit., page 350.

Callistus, the Bishop of Rome -- a onetime slave -- in 222 CE strongly voiced his condemnation of infanticide to the pagan public. Justin Martyr's First Apology (250 CE) stated, "We have been taught that it is wicked to expose even newly-born children." Also in the second century, Athengoras, a Christian leader, wrote in his Plea to the Emperor Marcus Aurelius, that "[we do not expose] an infant, because those who expose them are chargeable with child murder." Another Christian writer, Minucius Felix, wrote to Emperor Claudius, "And I see that you at one time expose your begotten children to wild beasts and to the birds; at another that you crush when strangled with a miserable kind of death. . . . And these things assuredly come down from your gods. For Saturn did not expose his children but devoured them."

But so long as Christianity remained a disfavored--and sometimes persecuted--religion, their appeals to the pagan government to act against infanticide were ineffectual in changing government policy. Even so, Christians worked against infanticide by prohibiting its members from practicing it, voicing their moral view on infanticide to the pagan world, and by providing for the relief of the poor and actually taking in and supporting babies which had been left to die by exposure by their pagan parents. As Fox explains, "to the poor, the widows and orphans, Christians gave alms and support, like the synagogue communities, their forerunners. This 'brotherly love' has been minimized as a reason for turning to the Church, as if only those who were members could know of it. In fact, it was widely recognized." Fox, op. cit., page 324. According to Durant, "in many instances Christians rescued exposed infant, baptized them, and brought them up with the aid of community funds." Durant, op. cit., page 598. Through these efforts, Christians worked to diminish some of the causes of infanticide."

[Imaginos]

Early Christians stood in opposition to infanticide, degradation of women, gladiatorial combats, slavery, etc.

Christianity did nothing to improve these things.
Slavery and Gladiator fights contined as they always had done in the Roman Empire under the Christian Emperors.

John Chrysostom said "The slave should be resigned to his lot, in obeying his master he is obeying God"

[Imaginos]

Its hardly surprising that early Christians were hated with good reason.
They were completely intolerant to other beliefs and wanted to destroy values deeply held by the classical world like freedom of religious faith, freedom of speech and freedom of knowledge.

As a fair comparison you might compare to what Al Qaeda stand for today.

In 118AD Hadrian built the Pantheon, a symbol of religious freedom throughout the Roman Empire, a building to all gods that citizens of the empire worshipped, so that the people could all worship together.

After Christianity this was changed to a building to the one completely intolerant Christian God only, in an act which personified Christianity, as in future centuries christians marched around determined to offer people everywhere the choice between converting to Christianity or death.

[Tex]

Its hardly surprising that early Christians were hated with good reason.
They were completely intolerant to other beliefs and wanted to destroy values deeply held by the classical world like freedom of religious faith, freedom of speech and freedom of knowledge.

Tex: Are you serious?? Wake up and smell the coffee. If people were so happy with the Roman rule....They would have killed the Apostles before they could have said "boo".

"freedom of speech" in Roman times.....Now you have to tell me where you heard that one?