The Gay Denomination?

[99percentatheism]

The Gay Denomination.

For those people that desire same gender sexual behavior or thoughts, AND that claim to be a Christian and claim that their beliefs and theology can fit the New Testament witness, instead of waging an endless, fruitless and vicious war on other Christians - that will NEVER accept their gay doctrines and dogmas . . ., - why won't they just declare a new and alternative denomination, just like Watch Tower theological adherants and Mormons?

Why the need to join forces with anti-Christian and secularist movements to attack "Bible believing" Christians?

Afterall, in referencing the New Testament, there is no justifiable comparison of sex acts to being a slave (slavery), or the charge of bigotry and hatefulness in holding that marriage is a man and a woman.

Why not just start an "Out and Proud" Gay Denomination?

[JohnPaul]

99percentatheism wrote:

And I've been debating this topic for a very long time. I've seen a standard approach. The nazi deal, the hate thing, the self-loathing charge, yada, yada. The invoking of a demon? I can't remember that one being used. Not openly in a thread anyway. But I do believe it may have been inferred.

The demon Belial says "Hi."

When I invoked the demon Belial to "gently correct" you, I thought that was very appropriate here because you are doing exactly the same thing when you invoke your God and Jesus to not only correct, but to condemn everyone who disagrees with you.

Will you please explain to me how my invocation of a demon to correct you is any different from a Christian prayer or appeal to Jesus to correct or condemn "sinners."

Incidentally, I am very pleased that you found my invocation of a demon against you to be new and innovative. At my age, I am always pleased to be called innovative.

[99percentatheism]

Here's something else for you perusal:


Media Release: First Gay Ordination in the Presbyterian Church (USA) Since New Church Policy

   
Wednesday, October 05 2011 @ 05:55 AM
Media Release: First Gay Ordination in the Presbyterian Church (USA) Since New Church Policy

Media Contact: Michael Adee, michael@mlp.org, 505.577.0086

Celebrating . . . Scott Anderson's Ordination

We give thanks to God that Scott Anderson will be ordained on Saturday, October 8 at Covenant Presbyterian Church, Madison, Wisconsin. Scott is the first openly gay candidate to be ordained since the new ordination policy of Amendment 10-A went into effect on July 10 as G-2.0104.
 
"We're grateful that qualified LGBT Presbyterians who are called by God to serve in ministry and demonstrate gifts for ministry can be ordained because of G-2.0104. This is a wonderful time in the life of the Presbyterian Church (USA)," said Trice Gibbons, Co-Moderator, More Light Presbyterians.
 
Anderson served as Co-Moderator of More Light Presbyterians before moving to Madison to become the Executive Director of the Wisconsin Council of Churches. A graduate of Princeton Theological Seminary, he also served as Executive Director of the California Council of Churches.
 
Rev. Heidi Peterson, Co-Moderator, More Light Presbyterians, said, "Scott's ordination is the result of thousands of prayers and decades of work to remove discriminatory barriers to LGBT persons serving in the Church. We're now a more honest and faithful Church. I'm grateful for this extraordinary change."
 
Anderson is one among a group of qualified LGBT Presbyterians who are seeking to follow their call from God to serve in ministry. Michael Adee, Executive Director, More Light Presbyterians said: "Scott's ordination as the first openly gay Presbyterian since the passage of 10-A will be a watershed moment in the Presbyterian Church (USA). Scott's ordination and those who will be ordained next are all part of building a Church that reflects God's heart. We celebrate this moment and its witness to God's love for all persons."

# # #

More Light Presbyterians is a national network of individuals and churches working for the full participation of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender persons in the life, ministry and witness of the Presbyterian Church (USA). www.mlp.org

This is not new news:

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel — which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people.

For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you.

They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

- Jude 1

As a result, they do not live the rest of their earthly lives for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God. For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.

They are surprised that you do not join them in their reckless, wild living, and they heap abuse on you.

- 1 Peter


True and False Prophets

“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.



“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

The Wise and Foolish Builders

“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.�

When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.

- Jesus, called Christ

- Matthew 7

“But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female. ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, 8 and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.�

10 When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. 11 He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.�

But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater —has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.

- Ephesians 6

“Haven’t you read,� he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.�

“Why then,� they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?�

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.�

The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.�

- Matthew 19

The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.�

19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

But for Adam no suitable helper was found. So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribsand then closed up the place with flesh. Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

The man said,

“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;

she shall be called ‘woman,’

for she was taken out of man. �

That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

- God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob

- Genesis 2

[99percentatheism]

Gene Robinson? Mr. Schism and haughtiness himself?

And Spong? Yeah right.

But no, I missed your reference. What post?

I need a little levity at this moment.

I'll help you out, 99. Here it is again:

October 15, 2009

A Manifesto! The Time Has Come!
I have made a decision. I will no longer debate the issue of homosexuality in the church with anyone. I will no longer engage the biblical ignorance that emanates from so many right-wing Christians about how the Bible condemns homosexuality, as if that point of view still has any credibility. I will no longer discuss with them or listen to them tell me how homosexuality is "an abomination to God," about how homosexuality is a "chosen lifestyle," or about how through prayer and "spiritual counseling" homosexual persons can be "cured." Those arguments are no longer worthy of my time or energy. I will no longer dignify by listening to the thoughts of those who advocate "reparative therapy," as if homosexual persons are somehow broken and need to be repaired. I will no longer talk to those who believe that the unity of the church can or should be achieved by rejecting the presence of, or at least at the expense of, gay and lesbian people. I will no longer take the time to refute the unlearned and undocumentable claims of certain world religious leaders who call homosexuality "deviant." I will no longer listen to that pious sentimentality that certain Christian leaders continue to employ, which suggests some version of that strange and overtly dishonest phrase that "we love the sinner but hate the sin." That statement is, I have concluded, nothing more than a self-serving lie designed to cover the fact that these people hate homosexual persons and fear homosexuality itself, but somehow know that hatred is incompatible with the Christ they claim to profess, so they adopt this face-saving and absolutely false statement. I will no longer temper my understanding of truth in order to pretend that I have even a tiny smidgen of respect for the appalling negativity that continues to emanate from religious circles where the church has for centuries conveniently perfumed its ongoing prejudices against blacks, Jews, women and homosexual persons with what it assumes is "high-sounding, pious rhetoric." The day for that mentality has quite simply come to an end for me. I will personally neither tolerate it nor listen to it any longer. The world has moved on, leaving these elements of the Christian Church that cannot adjust to new knowledge or a new consciousness lost in a sea of their own irrelevance. They no longer talk to anyone but themselves. I will no longer seek to slow down the witness to inclusiveness by pretending that there is some middle ground between prejudice and oppression. There isn't. Justice postponed is justice denied. That can be a resting place no longer for anyone. An old civil rights song proclaimed that the only choice awaiting those who cannot adjust to a new understanding was to "Roll on over or we'll roll on over you!" Time waits for no one.

I will particularly ignore those members of my own Episcopal Church who seek to break away from this body to form a "new church," claiming that this new and bigoted instrument alone now represents the Anglican Communion. Such a new ecclesiastical body is designed to allow these pathetic human beings, who are so deeply locked into a world that no longer exists, to form a community in which they can continue to hate gay people, distort gay people with their hopeless rhetoric and to be part of a religious fellowship in which they can continue to feel justified in their homophobic prejudices for the rest of their tortured lives. Church unity can never be a virtue that is preserved by allowing injustice, oppression and psychological tyranny to go unchallenged.

In my personal life, I will no longer listen to televised debates conducted by "fair-minded" channels that seek to give "both sides" of this issue "equal time." I am aware that these stations no longer give equal time to the advocates of treating women as if they are the property of men or to the advocates of reinstating either segregation or slavery, despite the fact that when these evil institutions were coming to an end the Bible was still being quoted frequently on each of these subjects. It is time for the media to announce that there are no longer two sides to the issue of full humanity for gay and lesbian people. There is no way that justice for homosexual people can be compromised any longer.

I will no longer act as if the Papal office is to be respected if the present occupant of that office is either not willing or not able to inform and educate himself on public issues on which he dares to speak with embarrassing ineptitude. I will no longer be respectful of the leadership of the Archbishop of Canterbury, who seems to believe that rude behavior, intolerance and even killing prejudice is somehow acceptable, so long as it comes from third-world religious leaders, who more than anything else reveal in themselves the price that colonial oppression has required of the minds and hearts of so many of our world's population. I see no way that ignorance and truth can be placed side by side, nor do I believe that evil is somehow less evil if the Bible is quoted to justify it. I will dismiss as unworthy of any more of my attention the wild, false and uninformed opinions of such would-be religious leaders as Pat Robertson, James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, Jimmy Swaggart, Albert Mohler, and Robert Duncan. My country and my church have both already spent too much time, energy and money trying to accommodate these backward points of view when they are no longer even tolerable.

I make these statements because it is time to move on. The battle is over. The victory has been won. There is no reasonable doubt as to what the final outcome of this struggle will be. Homosexual people will be accepted as equal, full human beings, who have a legitimate claim on every right that both church and society have to offer any of us. Homosexual marriages will become legal, recognized by the state and pronounced holy by the church. "Don't ask, don't tell" will be dismantled as the policy of our armed forces. We will and we must learn that equality of citizenship is not something that should ever be submitted to a referendum. Equality under and before the law is a solemn promise conveyed to all our citizens in the Constitution itself. Can any of us imagine having a public referendum on whether slavery should continue, whether segregation should be dismantled, whether voting privileges should be offered to women? The time has come for politicians to stop hiding behind unjust laws that they themselves helped to enact, and to abandon that convenient shield of demanding a vote on the rights of full citizenship because they do not understand the difference between a constitutional democracy, which this nation has, and a "mobocracy," which this nation rejected when it adopted its constitution. We do not put the civil rights of a minority to the vote of a plebiscite.

I will also no longer act as if I need a majority vote of some ecclesiastical body in order to bless, ordain, recognize and celebrate the lives and gifts of gay and lesbian people in the life of the church. No one should ever again be forced to submit the privilege of citizenship in this nation or membership in the Christian Church to the will of a majority vote.

The battle in both our culture and our church to rid our souls of this dying prejudice is finished. A new consciousness has arisen. A decision has quite clearly been made. Inequality for gay and lesbian people is no longer a debatable issue in either church or state. Therefore, I will from this moment on refuse to dignify the continued public expression of ignorant prejudice by engaging it. I do not tolerate racism or sexism any longer. From this moment on, I will no longer tolerate our culture's various forms of homophobia. I do not care who it is who articulates these attitudes or who tries to make them sound holy with religious jargon.

I have been part of this debate for years, but things do get settled and this issue is now settled for me. I do not debate any longer with members of the "Flat Earth Society" either. I do not debate with people who think we should treat epilepsy by casting demons out of the epileptic person; I do not waste time engaging those medical opinions that suggest that bleeding the patient might release the infection. I do not converse with people who think that Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans as punishment for the sin of being the birthplace of Ellen DeGeneres or that the terrorists hit the United Sates on 9/11 because we tolerated homosexual people, abortions, feminism or the American Civil Liberties Union. I am tired of being embarrassed by so much of my church's participation in causes that are quite unworthy of the Christ I serve or the God whose mystery and wonder I appreciate more each day. Indeed I feel the Christian Church should not only apologize, but do public penance for the way we have treated people of color, women, adherents of other religions and those we designated heretics, as well as gay and lesbian people.

Life moves on. As the poet James Russell Lowell once put it more than a century ago: "New occasions teach new duties, Time makes ancient good uncouth." I am ready now to claim the victory. I will from now on assume it and live into it. I am unwilling to argue about it or to discuss it as if there are two equally valid, competing positions any longer. The day for that mentality has simply gone forever.

This is my manifesto and my creed. I proclaim it today. I invite others to join me in this public declaration. I believe that such a public outpouring will help cleanse both the church and this nation of its own distorting past. It will restore integrity and honor to both church and state. It will signal that a new day has dawned and we are ready not just to embrace it, but also to rejoice in it and to celebrate it.

– John Shelby Spong

From Spong. Of course. This has nothing at all to do with what I requested. This is just a rant from a religious secular-humanist against Christian orthodoxy. This doesn't "preach" sexual purity at all. Just the opposite.

A supposedly ordained man but one that doesn't follow authority.

For him too:


I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel — which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people.

For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you.

They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

- Jude 1

As a result, they do not live the rest of their earthly lives for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God. For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.

They are surprised that you do not join them in their reckless, wild living, and they heap abuse on you.

- 1 Peter


True and False Prophets

“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.



“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

The Wise and Foolish Builders

“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.�

When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.

- Jesus, called Christ

- Matthew 7

“But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female. ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, 8 and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.�

10 When they were in the house again, the disciples asked Jesus about this. 11 He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her. 12 And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.�

But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater —has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.

- Ephesians 6

“Haven’t you read,� he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.�

“Why then,� they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?�

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.�

The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.�

- Matthew 19

The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.�

19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

But for Adam no suitable helper was found. So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribsand then closed up the place with flesh. Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

The man said,

“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;

she shall be called ‘woman,’

for she was taken out of man. �

That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

- God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob

- Genesis 2

[99percentatheism]

99:

Jesus said to him,

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

I could write that in a rainbow of colors, and it would still be black and white.

I don't see how this helps your case, 99percentatheism, since Jesus did not condemn homosexuality nor gay marriage. You're the only one condemning people here.

This is one of the most alrming aspects of gay pride theology. What Jesus doesn't condemn he actually is supporting.

Jesus never actually said a word in condemnation of a lot of detestable acts.

So that unl;eashes everything goes?

That's an Orgy, not a Church you are declaring that Jesus declared.

Creepy. But telling when you study gay history from Greek pederasty to the gay pride movement.

But still, ka, no such thing as same gender marriage anywhere in the scriptures. Not one word mentioned by Jesus to change a thing about that.

Jude wrote to Christians in the Church about your kind of theology and the kind of person that holds to it.

One other point.

Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.


- Gospel of John

And as we can see what the disciples show us of what Jesus taught by the writings in the New Testament, there is no such thing as same gender marriage or gay sex.

No, not one word of support orcelebartion.

[KCKID]

Just thought that I'd raise a pertinent point that might be of interest ...according to the Bible God made Adam and later formed Eve from a rib of Adam. From then on God had nothing to do with the actual 'birth' of anyone. Human beings took care of that all by themselves without any involvement from God. So, when God made 'them' male and female this is SOLELY referring to the Adam and Eve allegory (?) and no one else from that point on. We, today, are NOT an allegory and came into being through an entirely different method than did Adam and Eve. So, that human beings are being compared to 'God formed' allegorical beings is rather ludicrous.

[KCKID]

99:

Jesus said to him,

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

I could write that in a rainbow of colors, and it would still be black and white.

I don't see how this helps your case, 99percentatheism, since Jesus did not condemn homosexuality nor gay marriage. You're the only one condemning people here.

This is one of the most alrming aspects of gay pride theology. What Jesus doesn't condemn he actually is supporting.

The point is, 99, that you are not grasping the significance of Jesus' silence on the subject of homosexuality. YOU and many other Evangelicals are touting homosexuality as being 'the sin that will lead to the destruction of civilization as we know it' and THAT is a pretty big call! Therefore, YOU BET Jesus should or would have 'forewarned' those who were given the command to spread the Gospel message. But HE DIDN'T! I realize that this really irks those such as yourself, 99 ...I can almost hear, "Grrrr, IF ONLY Jesus had condemned homosexuality it would CLINCH our message of hate!"

Just accept the fact that it was NOT an issue to Jesus, 99, and be done with it. To rephrase your above statement, "This is one of the most alarming aspects of Fundamentalist Christian theology. We KNOW that what Jesus doesn't condemn in the scriptures he actually WOULD condemn if He were here today!"

Jesus never actually said a word in condemnation of a lot of detestable acts.

Unlike you, Jesus doesn't seem to have focused on 'sin' but more on 'forgiveness'. We know, of course, who Jesus more focused on and targetted, don't we, 99? I find nothing more detestable than the actions of pious individuals pointing their condemning fingers at others and telling them that they are inhuman, wicked, etc. etc. and are going to burn in hell forever and ever! Oh, and by the way, Jesus DID say a lot about THOSE kinds of people!

But still, ka, no such thing as same gender marriage anywhere in the scriptures. Not one word mentioned by Jesus to change a thing about that.

That's just the point, 99. Jesus said nothing. Let it go, you're just beating a dead horse. Besides, your thread is about 'gays' (not so much 'gay' marriage) starting their own denomination because you don't want to give them room in your own Church. Sounds like, no room at the inn for anyone other than the self-righteous.

Jude wrote to Christians in the Church about your kind of theology and the kind of person that holds to it.

Jude has already been discussed and 'your' interpretation of if has been found wanting. No point rehashing that one again. It does not say what you want it to say so leave it alone.

One other point.

Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

- Gospel of John

And as we can see what the disciples show us of what Jesus taught by the writings in the New Testament, there is no such thing as same gender marriage or gay sex.

No, not one word of support orcelebartion.

Oh my, I thought that the "One other point" might have led to something meaningful but it's merely the parrotting of what we've heard ad nauseum from you throughout this thread. It doesn't matter WHAT the Bible may or may not say on this topic, 99 ...most of us don't live our lives by the print from a book. 'Gay' people, 'gay' marriage EXISTS so don't keep telling us that it DOESN'T!

[micatala]

Norm, I'm not allowed to answer you as I should, because the rules here say that I cannot present that a subject, individual, or a group, or a movement that is openly antithetical to Christian truth, as it is clearly defined in the New Testament . . . as being Satanic or demonic.

You seem to have gotten that point across anyway, and have consequently been reported for it. Thinly and transparently veiled insults remain insults, and the intent behind saying "I'm not allowed to call you Satanic or demonic" is very clear indeed.

Moderator Comment

I would agree with cnorman18 here. If you know something is against the rules, do not even mention it, even indirectly. For example, this would be a violation of the rules: "The rules prevent me from saying you are stupid, so I'm not going to say it."

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster.

My inetntion was to try to explain why my answers are handcuffed. I laid no accusation on anyone or group.

Moderator Warning





The rules clearly state responding to warnings and moderator actions in the thread are prohibited.

The rules are the rules and they 'handcuff' everyone in the same way. Regardless, members have all agreed to follow them.




Please review our Rules.

______________

Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[micatala]

What is "condemn" is the stupidity of two people of the same gender making out;

Moderator Comment

Please avoid describing others as being stupid. You are free to disagree with what others do, but not free to use inflammatory language.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster.

I should of went with "ignorant". Thanks....I will use that word, the next time around.

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[KCKID]

Gene Robinson? Mr. Schism and haughtiness himself?

And Spong? Yeah right.

But no, I missed your reference. What post?

I need a little levity at this moment.

I'll help you out, 99. Here it is again:

What followed by Kay was what is called A Manifesto from John Shelby Spong. I've snipped it from here because of its length. I would suggest, however, that it be required reading by all those who profess Christianity.

From Spong. Of course.

Of course. He's one of the few Christians today that has the guts to tell it like it is and to attempt to put a stop once and for all to Fundamentalist hate mongering. I don't know why it's taken me so long to get to know this man and to recognize what 'true' Christianity is all about. I wasted close to 20 years on pious and legalistic crap that has nothing to do with Jesus! I want my 20 years back!

This is just a rant from a religious secular-humanist against Christian orthodoxy. This doesn't "preach" sexual purity at all. Just the opposite.

Sexual purity? What a piece of pious rhetoric! However, if you must apply that rhetoric to someone I think you'll find enough takers within the ranks of the heterosexual and Christian community!

A supposedly ordained man but one that doesn't follow authority.

He has a mind of his own. JSS certainly has an admirer in me. I didn't previously realize that one can still be a Christian WITHOUT the shackles imposed by Christian Fundamentalism as well as mainstream Christianity. It's a good feeling, 99, and guess what ...there is nothing BAD about feeling GOOD about a message of LOVE! That's why we were given feelings!

For him too:

I also snipped what followed next since it contained NOTHING to do with the issue at hand but was posted merely to bolster the poster's perceived attitude of righteousness. The theory is that if one can keep quoting scriptures - whether they have anything to do with the topic at all - this somehow wins one favor with God.

[KCKID]

Do you find anything wrong with this brief clip from YouTube, 99?