Constantine - The Bible Is Edited?

[deadaco]

The Bible is perhaps the most heavily edited text in the history of books. It began obviously as writings from various scholars, starting with Moses and leading into the New Testament books written by Paul, John, etc.

One of the biggest issues for me, concerning Christianity, is the knowledge these books were written and then further edited by men. There is no guarantee of a divine control, no certainty corruption didn't find its way in.

The First Council of Nicaea, formed by Constantine the Great, was used to clarify the bible and set up a 'standard'. It was during this time that many books were specifically denied any relevance - books such as the Gospels of Mary Magdeline. What else did they change?

How does a person trust a book, when they know it's been altered in the past by men with unclear intentions?

[greentwiga]

I know Marcion was trying to remake Christianity in some completely different mode. That was an example of an attempt to change the Bible and that people were zealous for keeping the documents unchanged. Similarly for the 616 vs 666 dispute. They were really nitpickingly careful about making sure they had the original. That is why it is so important to establish that each document was being preserved in the original. By 200 AD, the argument had shifted to which document. Though there was some disputes over which document, that even reached to Luther, each of the documents were zealously preserved. My point was that by the time of Constantine, the scholars could debate over whether to put in the Shepherd of Hermes or take out 3 John, but they couldn't change (edit) the texts.

[alive]

Constitine was in trouble...A converted Pagen that wasn't Trusted by the Christians..His kindom was crumbling and power strugles abound do to religion...He knew he was to go all in on Christianity to survive..Nicea was to show he had left his paganism and any books that contradicted the group that were there were to be withdrawn...Most were destroyed and the authors exiled or killed...I forget where but somewhere in Africa one of those sects still live..

He did have a direct part on what things were not going to be in the modern bible...All he did was destory many sects of it...Though we probably have more sects now..

Nicea was a power play...He is somehow in my blood line..

[ThatGirlAgain]

Constitine was in trouble...A converted Pagen that wasn't Trusted by the Christians..His kindom was crumbling and power strugles abound do to religion...He knew he was to go all in on Christianity to survive..Nicea was to show he had left his paganism and any books that contradicted the group that were there were to be withdrawn...Most were destroyed and the authors exiled or killed...I forget where but somewhere in Africa one of those sects still live..

He did have a direct part on what things were not going to be in the modern bible...All he did was destory many sects of it...Though we probably have more sects now..

Nicea was a power play...He is somehow in my blood line..

Despite the propaganda Constantine did not actually get baptized until he was dying (if then). He realized that an Emperor might have to do some un-Christian things (and he did) and wanted no one claiming authority over him. (Years later Theodosius would learn that lesson all too well.)

Constantine legalized Christianity, a most welcome event to Christians considering the recent Diocletian persecution. He took funds and properties from the previously official state pagan temples and gave it to the Christians. Although Christianity was not yet the official one and only state religion, it was clearly the favored one. Why would Christians not trust such a friend?

When Christianity was illegal and persecuted, as was recently the case, the Christians were mostly united against a common enemy. With the lid off, differences of opinion began to be voiced and very loudly, even to point of rioting and assassinations. Bishops were excommunicating each other all over the place, often enforced with mobs or hired thugs. The main hotbed of this civil unrest was Alexandria. Egypt was the primary source of both grain and tax revenue for the Empire and Alexandria was its main port. Serious civil unrest there was a dangerous thing. Likewise, disturbances taking place in the more easterly regions of the Empire were an open invitation to the newly resurgent Persians.

A main point of contention behind all this trouble was the nature of Jesus, with opinions ranging from him being totally human to almost totally divine. Constantine invited all the bishops to a council at Nicaea to try to establish commonality and put an end to the divisive bickering.

Although there was a wide range of opinions, they fell into two main categories, whether Jesus was primarily human or primarily divine. The former fit well with the Greek tradition of humanism and made Christianity a more personal matter. An implication of that is that authority would be local, residing with the individual bishops. The latter fit in with the idea of central control by the Roman bishop (and by implication the Roman Emperor). It is no surprise that Constantine pushed the latter.

Nicaea resulted in the most recalcitrant bishops (plus Arius who was not even a bishop) being excommunicated and an order for the Arian works to be destroyed. (Forcible suppression of the older apocrypha already was in place by the end of the 2nd century.) Some of the excommunications were later rescinded, most notably Eusebius who then wrote a glowing and somewhat fictional biography of Constantine, par for that era. The Emperor also commissioned Eusebius to create 50 Bibles for distribution to the various churches. This may possibly be the Codex Sinaiticus or the Codex Vaticanus. However neither of these contains the same NT books as the official Latin Vulgate created a few decades later. And again there is simply no record of the Bible canon being established at Nicaea.

The Arian sect continued to flourish despite Nicaea. The Emperors Constantius II and Valens, who came after Constantine, were Arians, although of a more moderate sort. Serious suppression of Arianism did not happen until Theodosius did so by force.

I have previously given links multiple times to books documenting all this. Pardon me if I do not bother this time.

[exchristiantoo]

The true Hebrew prophets and the apostles of the true Hebrew Messiah lived and died telling us about these phony religions and how they would deceived the whole world.
The very title that most religions use is the word God.
The Hebrew prophets nor the apostles of the real Hebrew Messiah use this pagan title while writting or teaching about the Heavenly Father and His Only Begotton Son.
The Creator Whose Name is YAHWEH never was known by the pagan title God or Lord or any of the other pagen titles.
The translators removed this Name and deceived all those who would read this fake title and believe they were being taught what the Hebrew prophets said.
However the Hebrew prophets wrote that in the Last Days Father Yahweh would establish His House and teach the truth once again just before the end of mankinds evil beastly system would kill 4/5 of mankind.
That time is now That House is here.

http://www.yahweh.com

Come see what great things Father Yahweh and His Dear Son Yahshua Messiah are doing in your life time.

May Father Yahweh bless your understanding.

exchristiantoo

[The Tongue]

Constitine was in trouble...A converted Pagen that wasn't Trusted by the Christians..His kindom was crumbling and power strugles abound do to religion...He knew he was to go all in on Christianity to survive..Nicea was to show he had left his paganism and any books that contradicted the group that were there were to be withdrawn...Most were destroyed and the authors exiled or killed...I forget where but somewhere in Africa one of those sects still live..

He did have a direct part on what things were not going to be in the modern bible...All he did was destory many sects of it...Though we probably have more sects now..

Nicea was a power play...He is somehow in my blood line..

Despite the propaganda Constantine did not actually get baptized until he was dying (if then). He realized that an Emperor might have to do some un-Christian things (and he did) and wanted no one claiming authority over him. (Years later Theodosius would learn that lesson all too well.)

Constantine legalized Christianity, a most welcome event to Christians considering the recent Diocletian persecution. He took funds and properties from the previously official state pagan temples and gave it to the Christians. Although Christianity was not yet the official one and only state religion, it was clearly the favored one. Why would Christians not trust such a friend?

When Christianity was illegal and persecuted, as was recently the case, the Christians were mostly united against a common enemy. With the lid off, differences of opinion began to be voiced and very loudly, even to point of rioting and assassinations. Bishops were excommunicating each other all over the place, often enforced with mobs or hired thugs. The main hotbed of this civil unrest was Alexandria. Egypt was the primary source of both grain and tax revenue for the Empire and Alexandria was its main port. Serious civil unrest there was a dangerous thing. Likewise, disturbances taking place in the more easterly regions of the Empire were an open invitation to the newly resurgent Persians.

A main point of contention behind all this trouble was the nature of Jesus, with opinions ranging from him being totally human to almost totally divine. Constantine invited all the bishops to a council at Nicaea to try to establish commonality and put an end to the divisive bickering.

Although there was a wide range of opinions, they fell into two main categories, whether Jesus was primarily human or primarily divine. The former fit well with the Greek tradition of humanism and made Christianity a more personal matter. An implication of that is that authority would be local, residing with the individual bishops. The latter fit in with the idea of central control by the Roman bishop (and by implication the Roman Emperor). It is no surprise that Constantine pushed the latter.

Nicaea resulted in the most recalcitrant bishops (plus Arius who was not even a bishop) being excommunicated and an order for the Arian works to be destroyed. (Forcible suppression of the older apocrypha already was in place by the end of the 2nd century.) Some of the excommunications were later rescinded, most notably Eusebius who then wrote a glowing and somewhat fictional biography of Constantine, par for that era. The Emperor also commissioned Eusebius to create 50 Bibles for distribution to the various churches. This may possibly be the Codex Sinaiticus or the Codex Vaticanus. However neither of these contains the same NT books as the official Latin Vulgate created a few decades later. And again there is simply no record of the Bible canon being established at Nicaea.

The Arian sect continued to flourish despite Nicaea. The Emperors Constantius II and Valens, who came after Constantine, were Arians, although of a more moderate sort. Serious suppression of Arianism did not happen until Theodosius did so by force.

I have previously given links multiple times to books documenting all this. Pardon me if I do not bother this time.

[Originally ThatGirlAgain wrote]Sorry, Constantine did not found anything. There was already a network of 1800 bishops in the church. (Ref) Neither did he establish any particular graven in stone doctrine. Rather he flipflopped.

[Now ThatGirlAgain wrote]..When Christianity was illegal and persecuted, as was recently the case, the Christians were mostly united against a common enemy. With the lid off, differences of opinion began to be voiced and very loudly, even to point of rioting and assassinations. Bishops were excommunicating each other all over the place, often enforced with mobs or hired thugs. The main hotbed of this civil unrest was Alexandria. Egypt was the primary source of both grain and tax revenue for the Empire and Alexandria was its main port. Serious civil unrest there was a dangerous thing. Likewise, disturbances taking place in the more easterly regions of the Empire were an open invitation to the newly resurgent Persians.

A main point of contention behind all this trouble was the nature of Jesus, with opinions ranging from him being totally human to almost totally divine. Constantine invited all the bishops to a council at Nicaea to try to establish commonality and put an end to the divisive bickering.

{The Tongue]I love it when I observe minds evolving, and not like some, who are sealed books that cannot be edited and grow with the times. But I see that ThatGirlAgain, is not a sealed book, but an open ended book that is still in the process of being written, I hope that I am still around when she writes, "THE END."

[ThatGirlAgain]

{The Tongue]I love it when I observe minds evolving, and not like some, who are sealed books that cannot be edited and grow with the times. But I see that ThatGirlAgain, is not a sealed book, but an open ended book that is still in the process of being written, I hope that I am still around when she writes, "THE END."

While I hope it is the case that I am open minded, I think more important to understanding me (if I may be allowed to wax self-referential for a moment) is my personal title, This Puppy is a Mongrel. I do not 'pledge allegiance' to any specific camp. I try my best to work out the actuality of each circumstance based on the most reasonable (I hope) interpretation of the facts without belonging to one breed or another.

And I hope not to reach "THE END" in terms of either learning or longevity until sometime in my second century. I am undecided whether it should be by motorcycle mishap or skydiving accident.

[/narcissism]

[The Tongue]

{The Tongue]I love it when I observe minds evolving, and not like some, who are sealed books that cannot be edited and grow with the times. But I see that ThatGirlAgain, is not a sealed book, but an open ended book that is still in the process of being written, I hope that I am still around when she writes, "THE END."

While I hope it is the case that I am open minded, I think more important to understanding me (if I may be allowed to wax self-referential for a moment) is my personal title, This Puppy is a Mongrel. I do not 'pledge allegiance' to any specific camp. I try my best to work out the actuality of each circumstance based on the most reasonable (I hope) interpretation of the facts without belonging to one breed or another.

And I hope not to reach "THE END" in terms of either learning or longevity until sometime in my second century. I am undecided whether it should be by motorcycle mishap or skydiving accident.

[/narcissism]

It matters not how that body in which "YOU" the mind=spirit are developing dies, nor when it is returned to the universal elements from which it was created, for return to the universal elements it will, but "YOU" will live on, of that I am sure.