I tried "being a Christian" and having faith, now

[Muddy Muffins]

I apologize if it seems tangential, but I'm starting with a bit of a story.

I'm still young, and until Christmas of 2011, I had always I had always accepted Christianity like my parents told me to. I never questioned it because my parents were, for some reason, hesitant to teach me about it, even when I asked. So all I thought was that God was perfect. Seeing as I didn't know what "perfect" was to Christians, I made up my own perfect, and made God that. Or rather, I assume that because whenever I prayed for advice or guidance, he always seemed to tell me exactly what I wanted to hear, which never worked out well in practice. I'm not convinced I was ever talking to anyone, as much as I'd like to believe I was.

Later, on that Christmas, I was forced to go to church(something we rarely did). I was incredibly annoyed, because we went so late at night. I then realized that it probably isn't a good thing to be annoyed to worship someone you're supposed to love that much. So of course I half-heartedly consulted with him like I normally do. I still felt like I didn't want to go. I always assumed what my gut said to do was what God was telling me to do. So anyway, at the request of my parents, I go. Skipping over the details for brevity, the people at the church and my parents said some things I really disagreed with. No matter how much I consulted with God, I really couldn't come to terms with these things. It's that night I really thought about it. Was I really talking to anyone? How had I gotten so much bad guidance from an omniscient being? How could an omniscient being say things I disagreed with so much, and not even personally guide me to believe these things?

Over the course of that night, I realized I didn't believe in God. I could stop talking him altogether, and couldn't care less. I felt no love for whatever I was talking to. I felt no respect. Nothing. I really believed I did speak with him, but as I said, the inconsistencies with my communication with him and christian teachings and the poor guidance suggest otherwise. I could not for the life of me connect with this supposed God that the bible spoke of.

Story was longer than I meant it to be, but getting to the point... I currently define myself as an atheist, although if I may further explain my stance; I do not believe in any God a religion describes. The existence of a God in general isn't inconceivable to me, I simply have no reason to believe it yet. So for now, I'll call myself an atheist. I've tried as hard as I could to connect to this God, and simply couldn't without fabricating my own God that didn't violate my morals. If faith is the path to God, where did I go wrong? I'd like to be as open-minded as possible about this.

[TheTruth101]

I apologize if it seems tangential, but I'm starting with a bit of a story.

I'm still young, and until Christmas of 2011, I had always I had always accepted Christianity like my parents told me to. I never questioned it because my parents were, for some reason, hesitant to teach me about it, even when I asked. So all I thought was that God was perfect. Seeing as I didn't know what "perfect" was to Christians, I made up my own perfect, and made God that. Or rather, I assume that because whenever I prayed for advice or guidance, he always seemed to tell me exactly what I wanted to hear, which never worked out well in practice. I'm not convinced I was ever talking to anyone, as much as I'd like to believe I was.

Later, on that Christmas, I was forced to go to church(something we rarely did). I was incredibly annoyed, because we went so late at night. I then realized that it probably isn't a good thing to be annoyed to worship someone you're supposed to love that much. So of course I half-heartedly consulted with him like I normally do. I still felt like I didn't want to go. I always assumed what my gut said to do was what God was telling me to do. So anyway, at the request of my parents, I go. Skipping over the details for brevity, the people at the church and my parents said some things I really disagreed with. No matter how much I consulted with God, I really couldn't come to terms with these things. It's that night I really thought about it. Was I really talking to anyone? How had I gotten so much bad guidance from an omniscient being? How could an omniscient being say things I disagreed with so much, and not even personally guide me to believe these things?

Over the course of that night, I realized I didn't believe in God. I could stop talking him altogether, and couldn't care less. I felt no love for whatever I was talking to. I felt no respect. Nothing. I really believed I did speak with him, but as I said, the inconsistencies with my communication with him and christian teachings and the poor guidance suggest otherwise. I could not for the life of me connect with this supposed God that the bible spoke of.

Story was longer than I meant it to be, but getting to the point... I currently define myself as an atheist, although if I may further explain my stance; I do not believe in any God a religion describes. The existence of a God in general isn't inconceivable to me, I simply have no reason to believe it yet. So for now, I'll call myself an atheist. I've tried as hard as I could to connect to this God, and simply couldn't without fabricating my own God that didn't violate my morals. If faith is the path to God, where did I go wrong? I'd like to be as open-minded as possible about this.

Things that you think you consulted with God went the other way, as in you simply didn't get an outcome that you would like. It's known to all apostles of the great as a 'suffering' for God. In turn, God finds mercy for you and feels bad for you, therefore, you are a step closer to finding redemption. As all apostles and faithful believers of God know, without suffering, there is no room for God feeling bad for you, therefore, he will NOT have mercy on your soul.

It is perfectly understood that you don't agree with Gods statements or his way of doing things, we are made in Gods image, meaning, we are given from birth to do as we please and to be independant of anything and everything. The ways of the Lord and how he applied his ways onto the world, is in recognition within me that he knew one is not able to adhere to the laws to the fulllest. Thus, him being public about it, and acknowledging that God is all knowing, it was intended for us to strive to "suffer" for his sake, hence, again, creating room for his mercy.
As evident by the 613 commandments given to the poeple of Moses, and as a fact that no one kept the law even after they have witnessed miracles from God is a clear evidence that God made us see it the way you see it now. In due meaning, the laws were only given for one to "struggle" to keep the laws, therefore, in midst, "suffering" for God.
God never gives us what we can complete to the fulllest, simply due to the fact it will build extreme pride within ourselves when its accomplished. And pride as all know is a gateway to sin. Care to simply look into a scripture all Christians know of, as said by Christ, If you even look at a woman wrong, you commit lust and sin in your heart. As all know, that is impossible. All one can do is strive to accommplish it, fighting within oneself of given natural emotions, in midst, again, 'suffering' for God.


You can go about it this way. Agree with the general athesists and know that you hold your own path, not seeking any 'suffering' for God but rather enjoy life to the fullest. Even within this concept, you will eventually run into circle of problems from those around you that also hold their own laws from within. Abide by another human beings laws, and give humility to yourself by another being that was born under the same given importance as you, or, simply adhere to the rules of a higher being that is created differently from us human beings, and in midst, gain eternity for your efforts to endure 'suffering' for God.

All in all, God will still be there for you, as in, eternity both ways. Hell, or the heavens. Good luck.

[99percentatheism]

I apologize if it seems tangential, but I'm starting with a bit of a story.

I'm still young, and until Christmas of 2011, I had always I had always accepted Christianity like my parents told me to. I never questioned it because my parents were, for some reason, hesitant to teach me about it, even when I asked. So all I thought was that God was perfect. Seeing as I didn't know what "perfect" was to Christians, I made up my own perfect, and made God that. Or rather, I assume that because whenever I prayed for advice or guidance, he always seemed to tell me exactly what I wanted to hear, which never worked out well in practice. I'm not convinced I was ever talking to anyone, as much as I'd like to believe I was.

Later, on that Christmas, I was forced to go to church(something we rarely did). I was incredibly annoyed, because we went so late at night. I then realized that it probably isn't a good thing to be annoyed to worship someone you're supposed to love that much. So of course I half-heartedly consulted with him like I normally do. I still felt like I didn't want to go. I always assumed what my gut said to do was what God was telling me to do. So anyway, at the request of my parents, I go. Skipping over the details for brevity, the people at the church and my parents said some things I really disagreed with. No matter how much I consulted with God, I really couldn't come to terms with these things. It's that night I really thought about it. Was I really talking to anyone? How had I gotten so much bad guidance from an omniscient being? How could an omniscient being say things I disagreed with so much, and not even personally guide me to believe these things?

Over the course of that night, I realized I didn't believe in God. I could stop talking him altogether, and couldn't care less. I felt no love for whatever I was talking to. I felt no respect. Nothing. I really believed I did speak with him, but as I said, the inconsistencies with my communication with him and christian teachings and the poor guidance suggest otherwise. I could not for the life of me connect with this supposed God that the bible spoke of.

Story was longer than I meant it to be, but getting to the point... I currently define myself as an atheist, although if I may further explain my stance; I do not believe in any God a religion describes. The existence of a God in general isn't inconceivable to me, I simply have no reason to believe it yet. So for now, I'll call myself an atheist. I've tried as hard as I could to connect to this God, and simply couldn't without fabricating my own God that didn't violate my morals. If faith is the path to God, where did I go wrong? I'd like to be as open-minded as possible about this.

Things that you think you consulted with God went the other way, as in you simply didn't get an outcome that you would like. It's known to all apostles of the great as a 'suffering' for God. In turn, God finds mercy for you and feels bad for you, therefore, you are a step closer to finding redemption. As all apostles and faithful believers of God know, without suffering, there is no room for God feeling bad for you, therefore, he will NOT have mercy on your soul.

It is perfectly understood that you don't agree with Gods statements or his way of doing things, we are made in Gods image, meaning, we are given from birth to do as we please and to be independant of anything and everything. The ways of the Lord and how he applied his ways onto the world, is in recognition within me that he knew one is not able to adhere to the laws to the fulllest. Thus, him being public about it, and acknowledging that God is all knowing, it was intended for us to strive to "suffer" for his sake, hence, again, creating room for his mercy.
As evident by the 613 commandments given to the poeple of Moses, and as a fact that no one kept the law even after they have witnessed miracles from God is a clear evidence that God made us see it the way you see it now. In due meaning, the laws were only given for one to "struggle" to keep the laws, therefore, in midst, "suffering" for God.
God never gives us what we can complete to the fulllest, simply due to the fact it will build extreme pride within ourselves when its accomplished. And pride as all know is a gateway to sin. Care to simply look into a scripture all Christians know of, as said by Christ, If you even look at a woman wrong, you commit lust and sin in your heart. As all know, that is impossible. All one can do is strive to accommplish it, fighting within oneself of given natural emotions, in midst, again, 'suffering' for God.


You can go about it this way. Agree with the general athesists and know that you hold your own path, not seeking any 'suffering' for God but rather enjoy life to the fullest. Even within this concept, you will eventually run into circle of problems from those around you that also hold their own laws from within. Abide by another human beings laws, and give humility to yourself by another being that was born under the same given importance as you, or, simply adhere to the rules of a higher being that is created differently from us human beings, and in midst, gain eternity for your efforts to endure 'suffering' for God.

All in all, God will still be there for you, as in, eternity both ways. Hell, or the heavens. Good luck.

I can't remember even a moment of my pre-adult youth where I had religious-like friends or settings. I do remember many a passing thought and serious contemplative moments where I looked at Church goers as silly but sweet people. None seemed to make the world a bad place and none seemed to do anything particularly fantastic either.

It was when I entered society as a stand alone agent of self-worth that I started seeing more to life then just feeding the ego of moment and building a life of financial wealth. Of course the lascivious and licentious were motivating factors of caring about myself and others, but soon the luster wore off of lust and conquest.

There has to be more to human life than darwinianism, since I've never met anyone that doesn't contradict it. Experience is a hard teacher to guffaw.

Why do so many people, even the most godless, care about the weak and the less fortunate? Why is there justice? Morality mocks academia far more than solidifies its worth.

Once I experienced real people, in the real world, in a deeper manner than just as a sounding board to hear my own desires justified, it seemed obvious that there is a purpose to time. A limited lifespan just doesn't cut it, even for the most empowered secular humanist. So many people want to be remembered, or "to leave their mark" so to speak, I couldn't agree that there is nothing to existence but fleshly accomplishment met with decaying until completely being absorbed by the dirt or spread into oblivion by being reduced to ashes.

Even in the anti-drab experience of procreating, common humans seem to have an inherent drive to become one with eternity and certainly not to just simply enjoy the moment of brow-bending sexual release until the next one and next one until a progeny comes forth. It's in the act of securing an accomplishment that can't be forgotten anytime soon that it seems there is more to life than just creating more lifeforms with 50% of our own DNA in them.

And certainly, as I looked around, I saw intellectual thought and diversity of the academic association, something that can be surely defined as "free thinking" ( . . . ) dwelling in the camp and camps of its social history as defined as Christian thought and action. Or what Christians define as The Church.

I looked into this amazing world of Torah-derived Christian life, where the incredibly complicated and awe-inspiring contemplative, walk hand in hand with the provably simplistic. And I found the path of human reality that I experienced daily but could never fully describe and define in my happy and delerious secular mindset that seemed never to be able to secure happiness and deleriousness. I found "real truth" in contradictions, because that is provably the human story.

I'm a Christian. Yup, now a Christian, not exclusivley out of the fear of damantion and hell (though both are an easy reality to prove by the self-imposed judgment people inflict on themselves and others but usually want to avoid themselves) but because of the realization of life's never-ending properties in the minds and deeds of its possessors. People, made not in the image of a more witty animal yet one more step up evolution's ladder - per the tie-wearing talking monkey with a PhD and lucrative speaking circuit - but the inescapable and undefinable and oftentimes beauty and common troubles expressed in the standard human-creatures.

God willingly taking on the form of "It's" created, as one of them?

Of course.

The meaning of life in the not fully explainable vice versa?

Of course.

The physical world all around us teaching us an eternal lesson?

Sounds like the Word becoming flesh and dwelling amongst us.

[playhavock]

Welcome to the fourms I love your post. I decoverted due to study rather then just thinking my way out - check out some of Dan Barkers writen work on him leaving the faith you might find something in common there.

You ask a question:

If faith is the path to God, where did I go wrong?

So lets put this into a logical formula:

1: If faith is a pathway to God, I will find God via faith.
2: I used faith and did not find God.
C: faith is not a pathway to God.

I'd like to be as open-minded as possible about this.

Check out this very well made video on openmindedness:



I think that will cover it

pm me if you want to chat about logic or sushi or whatever.
------

Now I must ask TheTruth101 how he knows any thing he said is true.

[Tex]

I apologize if it seems tangential, but I'm starting with a bit of a story.

I'm still young, and until Christmas of 2011, I had always I had always accepted Christianity like my parents told me to. I never questioned it because my parents were, for some reason, hesitant to teach me about it, even when I asked. So all I thought was that God was perfect. Seeing as I didn't know what "perfect" was to Christians, I made up my own perfect, and made God that. Or rather, I assume that because whenever I prayed for advice or guidance, he always seemed to tell me exactly what I wanted to hear, which never worked out well in practice. I'm not convinced I was ever talking to anyone, as much as I'd like to believe I was.

Later, on that Christmas, I was forced to go to church(something we rarely did). I was incredibly annoyed, because we went so late at night. I then realized that it probably isn't a good thing to be annoyed to worship someone you're supposed to love that much. So of course I half-heartedly consulted with him like I normally do. I still felt like I didn't want to go. I always assumed what my gut said to do was what God was telling me to do. So anyway, at the request of my parents, I go. Skipping over the details for brevity, the people at the church and my parents said some things I really disagreed with. No matter how much I consulted with God, I really couldn't come to terms with these things. It's that night I really thought about it. Was I really talking to anyone? How had I gotten so much bad guidance from an omniscient being? How could an omniscient being say things I disagreed with so much, and not even personally guide me to believe these things?

Over the course of that night, I realized I didn't believe in God. I could stop talking him altogether, and couldn't care less. I felt no love for whatever I was talking to. I felt no respect. Nothing. I really believed I did speak with him, but as I said, the inconsistencies with my communication with him and christian teachings and the poor guidance suggest otherwise. I could not for the life of me connect with this supposed God that the bible spoke of.

Story was longer than I meant it to be, but getting to the point... I currently define myself as an atheist, although if I may further explain my stance; I do not believe in any God a religion describes. The existence of a God in general isn't inconceivable to me, I simply have no reason to believe it yet. So for now, I'll call myself an atheist. I've tried as hard as I could to connect to this God, and simply couldn't without fabricating my own God that didn't violate my morals. If faith is the path to God, where did I go wrong? I'd like to be as open-minded as possible about this.

If you are right....Then you shouldn't be asking this question.
You are an atheist now and should be very happy being one. No need to point fingers, when you see people having faith in God, it should be kind of funny, since you see it as a person praying to Santa Clause.

Now what will be your purpose in life? To do as the atheist here would like to do? Get rid of faith in God.....Since they believe this is where all problems stem from.

Or...Since you have one life, to enjoy it and take everything as grain of salt and just go out there and have fun and enjoy life. Can you do this....Or does your soul call out to you? If it does....What is a soul anyway right! Have fun enjoy life.

Just hope all your facilities are in place.....You're not one of does people that think it enjoyment to set animals on fire and watch them burn. If so where in big trouble.

peace.

[99percentatheism]

Welcome to the fourms I love your post. I decoverted due to study rather then just thinking my way out - check out some of Dan Barkers writen work on him leaving the faith you might find something in common there.

You ask a question:

If faith is the path to God, where did I go wrong?

So lets put this into a logical formula:

1: If faith is a pathway to God, I will find God via faith.
2: I used faith and did not find God.
C: faith is not a pathway to God.

I'd like to be as open-minded as possible about this.

Check out this very well made video on openmindedness:



I think that will cover it

pm me if you want to chat about logic or sushi or whatever.
------

Now I must ask TheTruth101 how he knows any thing he said is true.

How can anyone prove anything "they" say? All of life is self-inquiry in its absolute form is it not? Your opinions, youtube vidoe based, is shallow to me. Prove it's not? Though, of course, YOU have the right to believe what makes you feel good. To a point. Right?

Faith?

Not in Christian reality. Not as in hoping things work out right kind of faith. Christian reality is reason and experience based.

If one seeks to possess free thinking in ones own head, then it takes more than the knee-jerk emotionalism that seems to dwell front and center and deep and shallow in the non and anti-theistic pronouncements.

I would suggest the OP author take some time and use study and not propaganda.

May I urge the use of written works of Messrs. C.S. Lewis and Dr. Peter Kreeft.

I know it will take time and study, but this is mandated in the shucking off of faith-based reationary response of simple beliefs such as materialism . . . and the challenge of grasping the reality of life that means more than just sensory pleasure to the deep thinker and street vendor alike.

Lewis and Kreeft for a start that is.

[sleepyhead]

I'm still young, and until Christmas of 2011, I had always I had always accepted Christianity like my parents told me to. I never questioned it because my parents were, for some reason, hesitant to teach me about it, even when I asked. So all I thought was that God was perfect. Seeing as I didn't know what "perfect" was to Christians, I made up my own perfect, and made God that. Or rather, I assume that because whenever I prayed for advice or guidance, he always seemed to tell me exactly what I wanted to hear, which never worked out well in practice. I'm not convinced I was ever talking to anyone, as much as I'd like to believe I was.

Hello Muddy,

I'm a student of the Edgar Cayce readings. What follows is a paragraph from Venture Inward magazine (which is a magazine devoted to the EC readings). Perhaps it will help in your effort to receive guidance.

Obtaining Guidance for Oneself
On more than a dozen occasions the readings
also prescribed a means of acting upon
the premise that “psychic is of the soul� for
obtaining intuitive guidance for one’s self. In
part, the process seems very straightforward
but it is also a way for the individual to
develop a closer relationship with self while
gaining practical experience in attunement.
Essentially, the approach can be used for
any question in which the answer can be
framed in terms of a “yes� or a “no.� Cayce
advised thinking about the situation and
then using one’s logic and mental abilities
to simply decide “yes� or “no.� After making
a preliminary decision, the question was
to be set aside. Sometimes, Cayce told the
individual to put his or her mind on something
else for awhile; on other occasions,
Cayce recommended moving right ahead to
the second step. After making a conscious
choice as to the best decision, the next step
was for the individual to spend some quiet
time in meditation and prayer— a personal
time of attunement when the whole issue
was to be set aside. After meditating, your
attuned self was to then repeat the question
and ask “yes or no.� Edgar Cayce stated that
this was a great way to work with intuition
within one’s self, and whenever you came
to the same conclusion as your conscious
decision then you could rest assured that
the choice was correct. If the decisions were
different, then the individual needed to
revisit the entire issue and give it additional
thought, meditation and prayer.

Venture inward Jan-Mar 2013 page 41

[1213]

If faith is the path to God, where did I go wrong?

Maybe you should read the Bible and decide do you want to be faithful to that God, if it means that you keep his word and want to live according to it.

[Muddy Muffins]

playhavock, Thanks for welcoming me! That formula is my current reason for believing the way I do. I dislike outright saying I've ruled out Christianity or similar faith-based religions, because as I said, I try to be open to new ideas. Speaking of open-mindedness, I liked the video! I find people telling me my disbelief is proof of my closed mind often. I tend to be extremely critical of even minor things, which I don't consider a bad thing at all. My theistic/deistic friends get very annoyed with me over that.

Tex, I am not happy to be an atheist. I'm happy to feel like I have a belief, or reason for disbelief in this case, that I can support well. I do try to enjoy life; I find listening to the beliefs of other people fascinating. It seems I came to the right place for that.

sleepyhead, Interesting paragraph, thank you very much for it! I'll read more into it when I'm a little less drowsy, didn't sleep much last night.

[playhavock]

Let me rephrase my statment to thetruth - I would like them to show suport for the claims they are making. Why should we think they are true, what evidance is there, tests, studys, is this what all christans belive or only him, and so on.

I do agree that I want to encorage thinking, the video is not propaganda - it explains openmindenss in a way that I think is well thought out, and summorises points I would have made in print.

playhavock, Thanks for welcoming me! That formula is my current reason for believing the way I do. I dislike outright saying I've ruled out Christianity or similar faith-based religions, because as I said, I try to be open to new ideas.

I try, but I find no reasion to belvie any relgion or faith thus far, I am still looking and studying but the burdan is on those who think there is something named God to prove it is true, better yet, God itself could save us all the problem and reveal itself to all humanity.

Speaking of open-mindedness, I liked the video! I find people telling me my disbelief is proof of my closed mind often. I tend to be extremely critical of even minor things, which I don't consider a bad thing at all. My theistic/deistic friends get very annoyed with me over that.

I highly sugest learning whatever you can about informal logic!

Tex, I am not happy to be an atheist. I'm happy to feel like I have a belief, or reason for disbelief in this case, that I can support well. I do try to enjoy life; I find listening to the beliefs of other people fascinating. It seems I came to the right place for that.

I find happyness or lack there of to be totaly irrevelent to my views on the world and reality. Life is whatever it is, facts are facts - truth is truth, no matter how I feel about it, no matter if I know about it, no matter if no one knows about it, it is whatever it is. My goal is to find that truth, whatever it might be, whatever the personal cost might be - my duty is to the truth, to seek it, to squeze it out if I must - and to that end, I will do my best as long as I exist.

You make your own happyness, you write your own destiny, and you can rewrite and remake it anything you want. There are plenty of things to find happyness in and joy, and wonder and awe and mystery and fun and so on, and sometimes there are plenty of things to find sadness and loss and dispare and regret in - this is life.

Watching a BBC program "the human jouney" on youtube I got chills learning how we all are from Afirca - the remains they have found of humans, the technoligy those primitives had - it is something I only knew very little before.

If you can find happynes in learning - that is something I can not properly put into words.

Knowalge is power.