Remove 'in god we trust'

Richard81 · Post by **Richard81** » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:06 am

Having God on our currency and in our Pledge of Allegiance fuels the false belief that the United States is a Christian nation. As declared in the Treaty of Tripoli, 1796, "...the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." This was signed by president John Adams. Having God in our currency and in our Pledge of Allegiance directly disrespects those among us who are not of the Christian faith, and it should be removed.

I took that from this site https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti ... e/sx9gbfgW
It is a petition to remove 'God' from our currency and pledge of allegiance. Do you agree that this should be done? Why or why not? If you do, please sign this petition.

East of Eden · Post by **East of Eden** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:09 pm

PhiloKGB wrote:
East of Eden wrote:I'm sorry, but I will obey no law that forces me to violate my religious beliefs.
Your religious beliefs require that students in majority-Christian districts be forced to recite Christian prayers?

Never said that, I said non-sectarian prayer.

Or, better yet, that students in majority-Muslim districts be forced to pray to Allah?

A better example would be if a majority-Muslim district wanted to observe Ramadan or whatever the Muslim equivalent of Christmas carols would be, I have no objection. Heck, there have been liberal school districts who have forced kids to engage in such Muslim practices, all in the name of diversity.

You see your privilege diminishing, and you don't want it to. It's that simple.

That's funny, my privileges are the result of being a child of God, with a glorious eternity in store. As the song goes, the futures so bright I gotta wear shades.

That status has nothing to do with any judge, and would be intact if I were in a jail cell at the hands of a crazed atheist government such as Cuba or China. As it says in Ps. 37, "The Lord laughs at the wicked, for he knows their day is coming." Today's God-haters frighten me about as much.

East of Eden · Post by **East of Eden** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:51 pm

SailingCyclops wrote:
East of Eden wrote: Is it your position that court rulings are ipso facto right and moral due to their office?
Right and moral are subjective.

You are consistent, as I have long held, there is no basis for a moral judgement if you are an atheist. Makes me wonder by what standard you declare school prayer, or anything else, to be 'wrong'?

Our system is based on constitutional law.

Great, my problem is when activist judges subvert the constitution, as in the cases previously mentioned here.

East of Eden · Post by **East of Eden** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:54 pm

SailingCyclops wrote:
East of Eden wrote:Totalitarian impulse noted. I have no similar wish to force you to attend church.
No, but you have a similar totalitarian wish to force religious indoctrination on my children. You should rejoice that neither my wishes nor yours can be enforced by law.

All laws are an imposition of someone's morality. In a majority religious nation there is no reason why a non-sectarian prayer can't be said in schools.

SailingCyclops · Post by **SailingCyclops** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:01 pm

East of Eden wrote:You are consistent, as I have long held, there is no basis for a moral judgement if you are an atheist. Makes me wonder by what standard you declare school prayer, or anything else, to be 'wrong'?

I don't declare school prayer to be "wrong". I simply agree with SCOTUS that prayer in state run schools is illegal. If you have a legal issue with the law, take it up with the courts. If you have a moral or religious issue with that, take it up with your god. Just please leave me out of it.

East of Eden · Post by **East of Eden** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:17 pm

SailingCyclops wrote:
East of Eden wrote:You are consistent, as I have long held, there is no basis for a moral judgement if you are an atheist. Makes me wonder by what standard you declare school prayer, or anything else, to be 'wrong'?
I don't declare school prayer to be "wrong".

So it wouldn't have mattered to you which way it was decided?

SailingCyclops · Post by **SailingCyclops** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:23 pm

East of Eden wrote:So it wouldn't have mattered to you which way it was decided?

Of course it would have mattered to me. I would have seen it as a violation of the constitution my country was founded on, and the constitution I fought and risked my life for. Fortunately, SCOTUS did not put me in that position. I am quite pleased they have seen things through the same constitutional lens I see things.

East of Eden · Post by **East of Eden** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:42 pm

SailingCyclops wrote:
East of Eden wrote:So it wouldn't have mattered to you which way it was decided?
Of course it would have mattered to me. I would have seen it as a violation of the constitution my country was founded on, and the constitution I fought and risked my life for. Fortunately, SCOTUS did not put me in that position. I am quite pleased they have seen things through the same constitutional lens I see things.

No doubt the slaveowners said the same of the Dred Scott decision.

SailingCyclops · Post by **SailingCyclops** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:48 pm

East of Eden wrote: No doubt the slaveowners said the same of the Dred Scott decision.

The FACT is, that we have moved on from our earlier errors, we have learned, become more sane, and have let go of many of our superstitions. Slavery proponents used the bible to support their position. That is no longer the case and It no longer is part of our laws.

JohnPaul · Post by **JohnPaul** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:16 pm

East of Eden wrote:

You are consistent, as I have long held, there is no basis for a moral judgement if you are an atheist. Makes me wonder by what standard you declare school prayer, or anything else, to be 'wrong'?

You sound a little irrational and even offensive here. Are you saying that religion is the only basis for morality? That is a little frightening, considering the murderous and bloodthirsty history of both Christianity and Islam. The 9-11 terrorist attack was most certainly based on religious morality. Or are you saying that only your own little bit of religion is the only moral and right one, and all others are wrong?

Hmmm. Why don't you lie down and relax for awhile?

East of Eden · Post by **East of Eden** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:23 pm

JohnPaul wrote: East of Eden wrote:
You are consistent, as I have long held, there is no basis for a moral judgement if you are an atheist. Makes me wonder by what standard you declare school prayer, or anything else, to be 'wrong'?
You sound a little irrational and even offensive here. Are you saying that religion is the only basis for morality?

I'm saying that without God there is no objective basis for morality. See http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcrai ... a-eth.html

That is a little frightening, considering the murderous and bloodthirsty history of both Christianity and Islam.

You really want to play that numbers game, with atheisms 100,000,000 death toll last century?

The 9-11 terrorist attack was most certainly based on religious morality.

Yes, they were following the word and deed of the 'prophet'. We both agree that is a false religion, correct?

Or are you saying that only your own little bit of religion is the only moral and right one, and all others are wrong?

I actually have a more liberal view of other religions than you, you believe that what men have deeply believed for all of human history is wrong (God), I believe there is truth in other relgions, but where they and Christianity differ, they are wrong.

Hmmm. Why don't you lie down and relax for awhile?

Gratuitous insult noted. That's your idea of debate?