The Problem with Christian and Muslim Fundamentalists

jessehove · Post by **jessehove** » Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:14 pm

Here is the similar problem with Christian and Muslim Fundamentalists as I see it:

http://mercyandmessiah.blogspot.ca/2013 ... lists.html

P.S. Notice I am using a specific definition of what Fundamentalism from a historical modern definition in Christianity and Islam respectively.

HaLi8993 · Post by **HaLi8993** » Wed May 08, 2013 4:34 am

Iam

It would seem that you understand not the english language, honesty or truth. I will leave you to wallow in your ignorance, you seem happy there. Good luck

No worries Iam, this type of response was expected. Islam doesn't believe in luck but I will stay positive and hope you have good intentions.

HaLi8993 · Post by **HaLi8993** » Wed May 08, 2013 4:34 am

Ooberman

With this story of Satan, I am reminded of Carl Sagan's dragon in his garage.

It's there, alright, it's just invisible, and has heatless fire....

Carl Sagan himself gave the response to his stupidity. If proof is shown, then you must believe no matter how fantastic it had previously seemed. Proof has been given and seen, even by Atheists, and they choose to ignore it and call us ignorant or mentally insane or crazy or "imaginative." Whatever the case, you are ignoring the evidence just as Sagan did, and even when Sagan himself admitted what was necessary and that what was necessary has already been proven, he still chose to ignore the evidence.

Choosing to Ignore the truth does not disprove God. You wouldn't even need a religious person to come up with a response for Sagan. He himself has answered his own questions. You can do as Sagan did and ignore his own ideas, or you can accept the truth.

HaLi8993 · Post by **HaLi8993** » Wed May 08, 2013 4:36 am

Ooberman

"In Islam we are not allowed to kill a Muslim."

Sure, but it's pretty easy for a fanatic, or even moderate decide who and who isn't a Muslim... then, it appears, to be open season on whoever you've demonized.

Don't worry, everyone does it... We all have fanatics on our sides.

We are not allowed to kill either Muslim or non-Muslim unless there is a legitimate reason to do so. I will say this again the actions of ignorant people cannot be attributed to Islam.

Iam · Post by **Iam** » Wed May 08, 2013 5:32 am

HaLi8993 wrote: Ooberman
With this story of Satan, I am reminded of Carl Sagan's dragon in his garage.

It's there, alright, it's just invisible, and has heatless fire....
Carl Sagan himself gave the response to his stupidity. If proof is shown, then you must believe no matter how fantastic it had previously seemed. Proof has been given and seen, even by Atheists, and they choose to ignore it and call us ignorant or mentally insane or crazy or "imaginative." Whatever the case, you are ignoring the evidence just as Sagan did, and even when Sagan himself admitted what was necessary and that what was necessary has already been proven, he still chose to ignore the evidence.

Choosing to Ignore the truth does not disprove God. You wouldn't even need a religious person to come up with a response for Sagan. He himself has answered his own questions. You can do as Sagan did and ignore his own ideas, or you can accept the truth.

Muslims have never produced one nanogram of evidence for their poor misguided beliefs. It is so very sad to believe the things that muslims believe, given the unbelievable stories alleged to have been revealed by muhammad. Never mind, each to his own I do mean good luck.

HaLi8993 · Post by **HaLi8993** » Wed May 08, 2013 5:45 am

Iam

Muslims have never produced one nanogram of evidence for their poor misguided beliefs. It is so very sad to believe the things that muslims believe, given the unbelievable stories alleged to have been revealed by muhammad. Never mind, each to his own I do mean good luck.

Iam how old r u???

Yes of course you would say this, even if we were to show you all the evidence in the world you would choose to ignore this, as your mind is made up, how about you be honest with yourself for a change. Yes each to their own at least we can agree on one thing

lol.

Iam · Post by **Iam** » Wed May 08, 2013 10:41 am

HaLi8993 wrote: Iam

Muslims have never produced one nanogram of evidence for their poor misguided beliefs. It is so very sad to believe the things that muslims believe, given the unbelievable stories alleged to have been revealed by muhammad. Never mind, each to his own I do mean good luck.
Iam how old r u???

Yes of course you would say this, even if we were to show you all the evidence in the world you would choose to ignore this, as your mind is made up, how about you be honest with yourself for a change. Yes each to their own at least we can agree on one thing lol.

The emphasised is important, because as I said Muslims have not produced ONE NANOGRAM of evidence.
But myself and many others would like to see your attempts, as long as they are better than the fluff that's gone before.
Please supply some evidence Hal, please do.

kayky · Post by **kayky** » Wed May 08, 2013 1:39 pm

HaLi8993 wrote:

Nope not at all, I introduced myself to Islam with the guidance and will of God. I started off by reading the Quran.

Explain to me specifically how this happened. Did God appear to you in a vision? Exactly how did God "guide" you?

I think there is much need for concern....

What exactly are you concerned about?

This is the true belief, there is many proof regarding this topic one being that Islam is free of any contradictions and errors.

This is not evidence of anything. Anybody can create a system that is free of contradictions and errors. It would be quite easy to do.

What status are we giving the Quran?? Having the upmost respect for the Quran is not idolization. You still have failed to explain to me where in Islam it says to worship the Quran??

The minute you say that a copy of the Koran is more than just ink on paper, you have turned a mere object into an idol.

Kayky: Thank you for proving my point.

What's that??

That you have made an idol of the Koran.

If there is religion, which we cannot deny then there must be one true religion. Islam is from God, it is not man made nor was the original Gospel and Torah.

This is one of the most illogical things I have ever read. The fact that religions exist says nothing about their veracity. It could just as easily be true that all religions are wrong. It could just as easily be said that all religions are partially true. There is absolutely no logical reason to say that this means there must be one true religion. Totally illogical.

Kayky: You can say that again!!!

Glad you agree.

Yes. I am very happy to be a Christian.

As I have said on countless occasions Islam is not man made nor was it written by men, you would need to prove this to me.

No. That is not how debate works. You are the one making the claims about Islam and the Koran. So you have the burden of proof--you must prove that this is the case. You are actually breaking the rules of this forum by asking other debaters to disprove your claim. And it is totally absurd to do so.

The fact that we as Muslims are intelligent enough to analyze and examine and learn the religion of God confirming the truth that it contains in it means we are using our mind. The one that lives day by day with no purpose just wandering blindly is not one that is using his mind at all.

If you approach any subject, such as a Koran, with the preconception that it is the truth, then you are misusing your mind. You have already decided that there can be no other options; therefore, you have placed restrictions on your own mind.

The Quran speaks of matters of the unseen, in the future, which God revealed to His Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) to show him that they came from God. If a human being wants to write a book, he can describe an event or express a point of view, but if any human being were to speak about matters of the unseen, in this field he can only base that on speculation and lies.

What you have said about the Koran can be said about the holy books of almost any other religion. This does not make the Koran special in any way. That's just what you want to be true.

How can you have a personal experience with God when you do not follow what God commands of you? If you are a practicing Christian as you have claimed, then you would be aware that the very scripture you follow expects more from you and not just love. Jesus (peace be upon him) also taught you many other things that you do not follow, why is this?? Or do you pick and choose according to your own personal opinion what you should follow?

It is quite easy. God has never given a written revelation to anyone. I am not a fundamentalist Christian who makes an idol of the Bible. My experience of God teaches me to love--that's all the instruction I need.

We don't make decisions that go outside the folds of Islam.

This proves my point about placing restrictions on your own mind.

We have plenty of evidence, what would you like to know? The Quran and Sunnah is my evidence what's yours??

I'm not the one making claims here, so I am not required to offer proof of anything. Your claim is that Islam and the Koran are from God. I want objective proof that this is so. Saying that the Koran is true because the Koran says so is proof of nothing. If you cannot provide objective evidence to support your claim, you need to withdraw it according to the rules of this forum.

Kayky: No. You believe in the Koran, a book in which a mere man makes the false claim that he has received a message from God.

Nice Try!!!

Nice try at what? Your response makes no sense.

This is from Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary:

idolatry

1. the worship of a physical object as a god 2. immoderate attachment or devotion to something

Yes, and.....do we worship the Quran as God?
Can you show me where in Islam it says to exceed normal bounds with the Quran. In fact Islam teaches us moderation and justice.[/img]

When people are willing to kill someone for burning a Koran, they are displaying immoderate attachment and devotion to a mere object. That is idolatry.

kayky · Post by **kayky** » Wed May 08, 2013 2:07 pm

HaLi8993 wrote:

Yes, and also part of debate is proving your side, hence proving that Islam is not a true revelation from God.

No. You are simply wrong about how debate works. You are the one making the claim, so you must provide the evidence to support it. My job then as your opponent is to discredit that evidence. But you have provided no evidence whatsoever, so you have made my job very easy.

I am happy to provide proof on any given topic which is what I have been doing, all you would need to do is ask.

Okay. I'm asking. Provide evidence that Islam is the one true religion and that the Koran is from God.

This is not true, any book written by man has consistencies either grammatical errors or something of the like. This is why writers have proof readers.

That is ludicrous. I have advanced degrees in both literature and linguistics. I could write you a book right now that is free of inconsistencies or grammatical errors. I would not need a proofreader. It would take very little effort on my part.

So far you have not provided one shred of evidence in support of your claim nor have you been able to prove any contradictions or errors in the Quran, this isn't about winning a debate rather it is about the truth. I have provided ample evidence on the topics raised, if you would like specific evidence then you will need to be more specific.

This is a debate site. We are here to debate, not preach to each other. You are asking me to do your job for you. As I have already pointed out, whether or not the Koran contains contradictions or errors proves nothing about the Koran's veracity or that it is from God. When I ask for objective evidence, I am asking for evidence outside the Koran. You provide that evidence. Then I will attempt to discredit it. That is how debate works.

Post by **otseng** » Wed May 08, 2013 3:10 pm

Iam wrote: [Replying to post 53 by HaLi8993]

It would seem that you understand not the english language, honesty or truth. I will leave you to wallow in your ignorance, you seem happy there. Good luck

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HaLi8993 · Post by **HaLi8993** » Thu May 09, 2013 3:34 am

Iam

The emphasised is important, because as I said Muslims have not produced ONE NANOGRAM of evidence. But myself and many others would like to see your attempts, as long as they are better than the fluff that's gone before. Please supply some evidence Hal, please do.

This is your opinion, I don't agree, what would you like to see evidence for Iam??