One God Two Messages or 2 Gods 2 messages!!!

[Gardian]

[font=Times New Roman]Considering the life of Muhammad and Jesus Christ.

Is both ways the way of GOD?

I mean reading the Qur'an there is much cruelty in it, And the Way of Jesus is way different.
Who ever wanna debate me saying that Old testament holds cruelty I say I only believe in Jesus and not in the OLD testament.

I only accept Jesus a true Messenger of LOVE and Peace and not in Moses or Abraham or any other OT prophets.

Muhammad had many wives and slaves, and sex was something he never quite in his life and used to do it with every women he saw.

Marrying a 6 year old and doing with her when she became 9 is really something very ODD.

Can Muhammad really still trick 21th century humans with his Demonic barbaric teachings?.[/font]



Barbaric Teachings of Muhammad

Quran 9:5 (the infamous verse of the sword inciting mass murder):

"Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Verse 9:5 teaches Muslims to commit mass-murder. The kafirs must either convert to Islam, who would keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate (zakat), or be murdered. Command for unconditional slaying of humans, God's own creations, by other humans – when presented as a sacred teaching of the almighty Creator – becomes a most evil teaching.

"Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low."



Quran 24:2 says:

"The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, -- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by God, if ye believe in God and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment."


Most evil teaching # 10: Teachings of torture, enslavement, beheading cruelty, eye-for-eye …..

There is a gigantic tie for the tenth most evil teaching. There are 3,990 teachings of the Quran that are equally evil. All these teachings are immoral depravity. Not being words/teachings of Moral Perfection - the Quran is not Moral Perfection and therefore not from God, therefore Allah is not God but the AntiGod and Muhammad is no prophet. Following is a very small sample of further Quranic depravity.

TORTURE

Quran 22:19-22: "fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" "for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods"

SLAVERY

Quran 2.178: "O you who believe! retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain, the free for the free, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female, but if any remission is made to any one by his (aggrieved) brother, then prosecution (for the bloodwit) should be made according to usage, and payment should be made to him in a good manner; this is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy; so whoever exceeds the limit after this he shall have a painful chastisement."

You kill one of my slaves, females or free man and I'll kill one of your slaves, females or free man.

BARBARIC CRUELTY

Quran 5:38: "Cut off the hands of thieves, whether they are male or female, as punishment for what they have done-a deterrent from God: God is almighty and wise." 39 "But if anyone repents after his wrongdoing and makes amends, God will accept his repentance: God is most forgiving and merciful."

EYE FOR EYE

Quran 5:45: "And We prescribed for them therein: The life for the life, and the eye for the eye, and the nose for the nose, and the ear for the ear, and the tooth for the tooth, and for wounds retaliation. But whoso forgoeth it (in the way of charity) it shall be expiation for him. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed such as wrong-doers."

BEHEADING

Quran 8.12: "Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

There are 75 teachings of beheading in Quran.

SLAUGHTERING

Quran-8:67: "It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise." (Allah insisting Prophet to kill all the prisoners, and should not keep any surrendered prisoners alive until He (Prophet) occupied entire Arabia.)

The Quran is a mine of most evil teachings human history has ever seen. Islam is out and out Evil in the Name of Godâ„¢.

[otseng]

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[marketandchurch]

Theological differences aside, we share the same God if your God demands the same thing of you as he does of me, and we share the same value system. The further we diverge on those two things, the less likely we share the same God.

So even two Jews can worship Jehovah, but if one Jew sources his indecency & unethical manners from his interpretation of what Jehovah wants, and the other says that Jehovah demands the opposite, then the two aren't worshiping the same God, even if they are of the same religion.

Which is why I do not understand why your average Muslim gets offended when a Christian says that he, and a muslim terrorist, obviously worship different Gods. Do Muslims worship the same God that a muslim terrorist does? Does your average decent muslim think that God demands we chop off the heads of the innocent? It's not thought through. It's not thought through by muslims, christians, and Jews, and for our ignorance, God undeservedly gets a bad rap.

[Gardian]

Theological differences aside, we share the same God if your God demands the same thing of you as he does of me, and we share the same value system. The further we diverge on those two things, the less likely we share the same God.

So even two Jews can worship Jehovah, but if one Jew sources his indecency & unethical manners from his interpretation of what Jehovah wants, and the other says that Jehovah demands the opposite, then the two aren't worshiping the same God, even if they are of the same religion.

Which is why I do not understand why your average Muslim gets offended when a Christian says that he, and a muslim terrorist, obviously worship different Gods. Do Muslims worship the same God that a muslim terrorist does? Does your average decent muslim think that God demands we chop off the heads of the innocent? It's not thought through. It's not thought through by muslims, christians, and Jews, and for our ignorance, God undeservedly gets a bad rap.

Yes you are very right.

The same God cannot say to us (Jesus) that we should love our enemies, bless who curse us ect. and the same God demands from Muslims to chop the heads of nonbelievers.

Even Jesus on the cross if we as humanity do not wish to believe he is GOD at least we accept him as a messenger of God and Good Will, so if Jesus was being tortured the most important person who came to humanity was being crucified and he forgave his ill makers how come same god changes his version of holy book and asks to make war against pagans, jews. christians and all who do not believe in ALLAH and his MESSENGER.

I would prefer to worship a cow rather being a Muslim who believes that Killing for the sake of allah is a good thing to do.

I am ready to question my Bible, if it is to make this world a better place.

No religious book should offer easy access to murder and justified choping of heads and in Syria now in 2013 May it is now legal that girls sleep and marry 1 hour with a MOUJAHID a fighter in the name of allah ...so its Legalized prostitution.


I have many things if people understand arabic I am ready to post things that in AZHAR university the most important university of Muslims in the world that a book was published and students where reading it, it says a person who left prayers, who left his religion(MUslim) and some other reason that who did this mistake a Muslim can kill him, barbicue him, and eat him if he is HUNGRY I saw it on tv .Egyption tv ....

[marketandchurch]

Theological differences aside, we share the same God if your God demands the same thing of you as he does of me, and we share the same value system. The further we diverge on those two things, the less likely we share the same God.

So even two Jews can worship Jehovah, but if one Jew sources his indecency & unethical manners from his interpretation of what Jehovah wants, and the other says that Jehovah demands the opposite, then the two aren't worshiping the same God, even if they are of the same religion.

Which is why I do not understand why your average Muslim gets offended when a Christian says that he, and a muslim terrorist, obviously worship different Gods. Do Muslims worship the same God that a muslim terrorist does? Does your average decent muslim think that God demands we chop off the heads of the innocent? It's not thought through. It's not thought through by muslims, christians, and Jews, and for our ignorance, God undeservedly gets a bad rap.

Yes you are very right.

The same God cannot say to us (Jesus) that we should love our enemies, bless who curse us ect. and the same God demands from Muslims to chop the heads of nonbelievers.

Even Jesus on the cross if we as humanity do not wish to believe he is GOD at least we accept him as a messenger of God and Good Will, so if Jesus was being tortured the most important person who came to humanity was being crucified and he forgave his ill makers how come same god changes his version of holy book and asks to make war against pagans, jews. christians and all who do not believe in ALLAH and his MESSENGER.

I would prefer to worship a cow rather being a Muslim who believes that Killing for the sake of allah is a good thing to do.

I am ready to question my Bible, if it is to make this world a better place.

No religious book should offer easy access to murder and justified choping of heads and in Syria now in 2013 May it is now legal that girls sleep and marry 1 hour with a MOUJAHID a fighter in the name of allah ...so its Legalized prostitution.


I have many things if people understand arabic I am ready to post things that in AZHAR university the most important university of Muslims in the world that a book was published and students where reading it, it says a person who left prayers, who left his religion(MUslim) and some other reason that who did this mistake a Muslim can kill him, barbicue him, and eat him if he is HUNGRY I saw it on tv .Egyption tv ....

Gardian, I personally wouldn't post it. But I know exactly what you speak of. The vitriol and hatred that emanates from the muslim world is even worse then that which comes from white supremacist groups in the US, such as the skinheads, kkk, aryan nation, etc. It is so deep and so toxic, the ideological rot within many Muslim enclaves, that it is irreversible.

That is why we have to fight for the hearts and minds of the many muslims who occupy the vast middle, as while many of them do not necessarily support a person who kills an innocent in the name of Allah, they can't bring themselves to criticize and stand up against a fellow muslim, because that would seem to them and others, as if they are in some way challenging Allah themselves, by challenging a fellow believer. This is paired by the fact that muslim countries have conservative moderates on one end, and extremists on the other end, making the center somewhat overly conservative, and thus, difficult to challenge any prevailing orthodoxies.

We can only address the heart and the mind by asking them to articulate what it is they think their holy book commands of them, and ask them to then compare it to the actions of a muslim terrorist, and challenge them to assert that they and the terrorist share the same God. If not, then please fellow decent moderate muslim, make it a public statement.

There is no excuse on the part of muslims for not taking to the streets in the millions if one of their own kills an innocent non-muslim, in the name of Allah. Silent protest by way of personally disagreeing with the actions of extremist muslims is meaningless, and your inaction to publicly right the wrongs of false ambassadors of your God gives God a bad name, and does more damage to theism then any Christopher Hitchens or Secular Culture ever could.

I too would rather worship a golden calf, then worship the same God that a muslim terrorist believes in. The act of questioning the bible is the only way a theist can mature in his theism. Never stop questioning the text, as the amount you can dissect from just one of its books can fill up a public library, 10 times over. The muslim world will never advance if it continues to hate the Jew, and blame it as the reason for it's utter irrelevance in technology, science, design, culture, architecture, physics, and GDP that is actually meaningful to the majority of its citizens. Roger Cohen of the NYTimes wrote a great piece on the preoccupation of Arabs with conspiracy theories, with Jews as the culprit: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/21/opini ... .html?_r=0

[Gardian]

Dear marketandchurch

The KKK and racism and the other stuff are mistakes of humans, the difference between Jesus and Muhammad is that Jesus preached love, but Muhammad teaches chopping heads.

This is what I am talking about, many Muslims blame Christians about Crusades, Yes crusades are not Christian thing , but Jesus didn’t teach it, and Muslims forget about the Islamic Opening in 630 and 624, and the first Christian crusade was around 1100.

So Muslims, stop blaming Crusaders, after you took Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, And north Africa and started to go to Europe from Spain, yes self defense in human instinct is what you have to expect.


I love Buddha, because he was peace, I am not racist, nor say that Christianity is the only way for peace, nor against all Muslims, some Muslims don’t like Islam but cannot do anything about it, and some Muslims believe that their religion is of peace they are fooled.

I ask humanity to wake up Please don’t believe any one who says he is sent from god to be able to convince you to kill other human.

I am Vegetarian for Gods sake, I cannot kill an Insect, I see it very cruel and un-human to kill other.

It was said You Shall NOT KILL
It didn’t say you shall not kill human or animal.
Just killing is wrong.

Many Jews understood it and became vegetarian.



I want to ask Muslims, are all who where in Mecca Kuffars Muhammad killed them?
And how do you accept a human taking a slave after war.
Slavery ?!?!?! GOD ask us to take SLAVES? and they are our right to sleep with them and do whatever we wish?

Its in the QURAN.

He slept with a dead Aunt, and few sexual stuff out there mentions in AHADITH that if you read them you would puke.

Its in Arabic Look at this.


عن ابن عباس قال: ( لما ماتت أم علي بن أبي طالب �اطمة بنت أسد بن هاشم وكانت ممن ك�ل النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم وربته بعد موت عبد المطلب، ك�نها النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم �ي قميصه، وصلى عليها واستغ�ر لها وجزاها الخير بما وليته منه، واضطجع معها �ي قبرها حين وضعت �قيل له: صنعت يا رسول الله بها صنعا لم تصنع بأحد! قال: إنما ك�نتها �ي قميصي ليدخلها الله الرحمة ويغ�ر لها، واضطجعت �ي قبرها ليخ�� الله عنها بذلك) ( كنز العمال )


Its is saying that they saw him sleep with a women, he justified it by saying he was making her soul lighter so that she goes directly to heaven and her sins are no more.


About Sex
NINE EVERY NIGHT .

Man nine times sex every night and GOD gave him this strength. (From Ahadith of Prophet)

Bukhari (5:268) - "The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number." I asked Anas, 'Had the Prophet the strength for it?' Anas replied, 'We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty men.'

[steps]

[quote="Gardian"]
[font=Times New Roman]Considering the life of Muhammad and Jesus Christ.

Who ever wanna debate me saying that Old testament holds cruelty I say I only believe in Jesus and not in the OLD testament.

I only accept Jesus a true Messenger of LOVE and Peace and not in Moses or Abraham or any other OT prophets.

[/font]

His first statement clarify his belief , there is no connection between him and the prophets peace be upon them.

In other meaning he is saying : OK God , listen to me : I will believe in Jesus only , and your prophets are not trust to me , which means God is not trust . and God cannot choose the right person for his message .

The testimony of Jesus peace be upon him clarify his lies and his wrongful belief : [17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. ]

Do you see Mr. pagan . Jesus did not exclude any prophet . they all the same , and even more he did not come to destroy the Laws of the prophets .

this is the first lie for Mr. Pagan : he lied about Jesus .

So what do you think he will say about prophet Mohammad ?
Of course he will tell big lies , and more than big lies . even he will lie about God himself to achieve his target .
-----------------------------------

He wants to escape from the Laws of the OT , but I will accept from him to apply the Laws of his beloved Jesus on himself :

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

You have 2 eyes only . they should be plucked long time ago .

But the truth , he is not loving Jesus , and the worst he does not follow the religion of Jesus .
Mr. Pagan is a believer of Paul , and what do you know about Paul !!!!!!

We will take his statements from the bible , to know the personality of this false prophet . and to be witnesses against him

1- the man is a fool : [11: 17That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting.] and the fools only are following the fool .

2- the man is insane : [11: 23Are they servants of Christ?-- I speak as if insane-- I more so; in far more labors, in far more imprisonments, beaten times without number, often in danger of death.] and the insane people follow the insane person .

3- the man is ravager Act [ 8:3 But Saul began ravaging the church, entering house after house, and dragging off men and women, he would put them in prison.]

4- the man is a lair . Rom [ 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? ] and the liars follow the lair .

5- the man is a hypocrite. 1Cor [ 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;] and the hypocrites defending each other .

6- the man has no dignity .1Cor [4:10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised. ] .

7- the man is a filth . 1Cor [ 4:13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.]

8- the Satan controls him . 2Cor[ 12:7 or because of these surpassingly great revelations. Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. ]

9- the man is an evil . Rom[ 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. ]

of course the sane and the respectful people will stay away from any person has these attributes . they will not be his neighbors , they will not accept him as a friend , and they will avoid talking to him .

but Mr. Pagan has chosen Paul to be his prophet instead of Jesus .
what a true love you have for Jesus ?

THE END OF DEBATE

[Gardian]

Dear Steps, So you believe in Jesus as a prophet? and do you believe in his teachings?

If I only trust Jesus who is GOD to me, then I dont trust GOD? how did you come up with that?
Certainly Muhammad cannot be the right person for any divine message as his life is a proof of intense sexual desires, warfare and power sucker.

Yes Jesus did exclude the prophets and this what you are writing is Jewish version of Jesus, the true version of Jesus is the Canaanites version. The Gospel of Peace.
Where he clearly says Moses is not a prophet, and the scriptures are dead and one should seek only life.

http://essene.com/GospelOfPeace/peace1.html

And the others answered: "We all do the laws of Moses, our lawgiver, even as they are written in the holy scriptures."

And Jesus answered: "Seek not the law in your scriptures, for the law is life, whereas the scripture is dead. I tell you truly, Moses received not his laws from God in writing, but through the living word. The law is living word of living God to living prophets for living men. In everything that is life is the law written. You find it in the grass, in the tree, in the river, in the mountain, in the birds of heaven, in the fishes of the sea; but seek it chiefly in yourselves. For I tell you truly, all living things are nearer to God than the scripture which is without life. God so made life and all living things that they might by the everlasting word teach the laws of the true God to man. God wrote not the laws in the pages of books, but in your heart and in your spirit. They are in your breath, your blood, your bone; in your flesh, your bowels, your eyes, your ears, and in every little part of your body. They are present in the air, in the water, in the earth, in the plants, in th e sunbeams, in the depths and in the heights. They all speak to you that you may understand the tongue and the will of the living God. But you shut your eyes that you may not see, and you shut your ears that you may not hear. I tell you truly, that the scripture is the work of man, but life and all its hosts are the work of our God. Wherefore do you not listen to the words of God which are written in His works? And wherefore do you study the dead scriptures which are the work of the hands of men?"


The gospel of peace when read is enough to secure a good life for every possible creature on earth not just HUMANITY.

And about plucking an eye when one desires, so Muhammad must have plucked like a zillion EYE?

There is no divorce I don't believe in divorce!!! I believe in immigration until one fixes the relationship.



I don;t believe in PAUL , in fact PAUL is our enemy of Jesus and Canaanites.
Specially when accusing the 4 gospel writers of Unfaithful because they where vegetarians.

I Love Jesus and I admire his compassion.

There is no divine connection between Jesus and Muhammad whatsoever no possible way.

Jesus forgave everyone, murderer, thief, sins, people who committed adultery..Which is in my opinion the true way of GOD, and he said DONT JUDGE for you will be Judged, so how come Muhammad wanna judge everyone, and never judged himself for his sins??



Imagination can go, as deep and dark as the mysterious ocean..

keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

[steps]

[ Dear Steps ].
I am not your dear .
I have no intention to talk toyou , it is something does not honor me .

and if you observe : most of my comment is referring to He , Mr.Pagan .

this means : I am speaking to the readers not to you Mr. Pagan

THE END OF DEBATE .
DO you understand ?

[Gardian]

[Replying to post 9 by steps]

Would you please tell me if I offended you somehow?

If I done anything, please lets talk about it.

Everything I said is from Quran and Ahadith.