TO christians : Is Jesus .............?

[steps]

Is Jesus the creator ?

Are these attributes fit Jesus ?

59. Say: Praise be to Allah, and Peace on his servants whom He has chosen (for his Message). (Who) is better?- Allah or the false gods they associate (with Him)?

60. Or, Who has created the heavens and the earth, and Who sends you down rain from the sky? Yea, with it We cause to grow well-planted orchards full of beauty of delight: it is not in your power to cause the growth of the trees in them. (Can there be another) god besides Allah. Nay, they are a people who swerve from justice.

61. Or, Who has made the earth firm to live in; made rivers in its midst; set thereon mountains immovable; and made a separating bar between the two bodies of flowing water? (can there be another) god besides Allah. Nay, most of them know not.

62. Or, Who listens to the (soul) distressed when it calls on Him, and Who relieves its suffering, and makes you (mankind) inheritors of the earth? (Can there be another) god besides Allah. Little it is that ye heed!

63. Or, Who guides you through the depths of darkness on land and sea, and Who sends the winds as heralds of glad tidings, going before His Mercy? (Can there be another) god besides Allah.- High is Allah above what they associate with Him!

64. Or, Who originates creation, then repeats it, and who gives you sustenance from heaven and earth? (Can there be another) god besides Allah. Say, "Bring forth your argument, if ye are telling the truth!"

65. Say: None in the heavens or on earth, except Allah, knows what is hidden: nor can they perceive when they shall be raised up (for Judgment).

66. Still less can their knowledge comprehend the Hereafter: Nay, they are in doubt and uncertainty thereanent; nay, they are blind thereunto!

[East of Eden]

Your final statement is not supported by the verses you quote.

Yes it is. It is supported by the Logos.

Thomas Sheehan devoted an entire book to the subject. I suggest you read it.

No thanks. Arguing against the LORD is vain pursuit.

The book is available at no charge:

No charge probably means no value.

Your silly No charge probably means no value. is typical of your attempts at logic. Your claim, if true, would apply to the Bible as well, a book that is available for free and not just online, but in most hotel rooms or from the Gideons upon request.

That Book is the exception. Praise God!

And there is the wall of self willed ignorance that can never be breached.
Even when he has been proven absolutely wrong he's still right in his self willed ignorant world.

As theists might say of you.

[Iam]

Your final statement is not supported by the verses you quote.

Yes it is. It is supported by the Logos.

Thomas Sheehan devoted an entire book to the subject. I suggest you read it.

No thanks. Arguing against the LORD is vain pursuit.

The book is available at no charge:

No charge probably means no value.

Your silly No charge probably means no value. is typical of your attempts at logic. Your claim, if true, would apply to the Bible as well, a book that is available for free and not just online, but in most hotel rooms or from the Gideons upon request.

That Book is the exception. Praise God!

And there is the wall of self willed ignorance that can never be breached.
Even when he has been proven absolutely wrong he's still right in his self willed ignorant world.

As theists might say of you.

[Danmark Wrote]Your silly No charge probably means no value. is typical of your attempts at logic. Your claim, if true, would apply to the Bible as well, a book that is available for free and not just online, but in most hotel rooms or from the Gideons upon request.

That Book is the exception. Praise God!

]
If I had said something as ridiculous as this response then such a charge would be more than warranted. I'm glad that you see that and understand the absurdity of your fellow travelers mistake. Thank you for your support.

[East of Eden]

Your final statement is not supported by the verses you quote.

Yes it is. It is supported by the Logos.

Thomas Sheehan devoted an entire book to the subject. I suggest you read it.

No thanks. Arguing against the LORD is vain pursuit.

The book is available at no charge:

No charge probably means no value.

Your silly No charge probably means no value. is typical of your attempts at logic. Your claim, if true, would apply to the Bible as well, a book that is available for free and not just online, but in most hotel rooms or from the Gideons upon request.

That Book is the exception. Praise God!

And there is the wall of self willed ignorance that can never be breached.
Even when he has been proven absolutely wrong he's still right in his self willed ignorant world.

As theists might say of you.

[Danmark Wrote]Your silly No charge probably means no value. is typical of your attempts at logic. Your claim, if true, would apply to the Bible as well, a book that is available for free and not just online, but in most hotel rooms or from the Gideons upon request.

That Book is the exception. Praise God!

]
If I had said something as ridiculous as this response then such a charge would be more than warranted. I'm glad that you see that and understand the absurdity of your fellow travelers mistake. Thank you for your support.

What I find absurd is people calling others willfully ignorant on what is supposed to be a debate forum.

[Iam]

Your final statement is not supported by the verses you quote.

Yes it is. It is supported by the Logos.

Thomas Sheehan devoted an entire book to the subject. I suggest you read it.

No thanks. Arguing against the LORD is vain pursuit.

The book is available at no charge:

No charge probably means no value.

Your silly No charge probably means no value. is typical of your attempts at logic. Your claim, if true, would apply to the Bible as well, a book that is available for free and not just online, but in most hotel rooms or from the Gideons upon request.

That Book is the exception. Praise God!

And there is the wall of self willed ignorance that can never be breached.
Even when he has been proven absolutely wrong he's still right in his self willed ignorant world.

As theists might say of you.

[Danmark Wrote]Your silly No charge probably means no value. is typical of your attempts at logic. Your claim, if true, would apply to the Bible as well, a book that is available for free and not just online, but in most hotel rooms or from the Gideons upon request.

That Book is the exception. Praise God!

]
If I had said something as ridiculous as this response then such a charge would be more than warranted. I'm glad that you see that and understand the absurdity of your fellow travelers mistake. Thank you for your support.

What I find absurd is people calling others willfully ignorant on what is supposed to be a debate forum.

Would that I had called Yar unwilfully ignorant have appeased your sensibilities? I would love to accommodate you, but any possible reading of that exchange can only conclude that Yar was being willfully ignorant. He made a claim regarding the value of information that is provided free ie worthless. When confranted by the knowledge by the information that his most adored information is provided free, which by HIS VERY OWN DEFINITION is worthless, he claims exemption from his own definition. So either his definition is a lie or his book is. The thinkers know what the lies are and they are legend amongst the religious. Anything at all to convince themselves, I mean anything, and then because they have convinced themselves they are astounded when it doesn't convince the thinker.

[YahDough]

[Replying to post 124 by Iam]

First off, you should be cited for making personal attacks, especially when they are unwarranted because...

Secondly, I said "No charge probably means no value" therefore I can cite the free Bible as an exception, which it most certainly is.

[Iam]

[Replying to post 124 by Iam]

First off, you should be cited for making personal attacks, especially when they are unwarranted because...

Secondly, I said "No charge probably means no value" therefore I can cite the free Bible as an exception, which it most certainly is.

I don't think you understand what a personal attack is.

[YahDough]

[Replying to post 124 by Iam]

First off, you should be cited for making personal attacks, especially when they are unwarranted because...

Secondly, I said "No charge probably means no value" therefore I can cite the free Bible as an exception, which it most certainly is.

I don't think you understand what a personal attack is.

Do you realize how ironic that statement was? Probably not.

[Iam]

[Replying to post 124 by Iam]

First off, you should be cited for making personal attacks, especially when they are unwarranted because...

Secondly, I said "No charge probably means no value" therefore I can cite the free Bible as an exception, which it most certainly is.

I don't think you understand what a personal attack is.

Do you realize how ironic that statement was? Probably not.

Are you an American?

[steps]

Okay, I am just going to quote somethings about Jesus and somethings about Muhammad.

And please Muslims, I will not debate you about Jesus being GOD or Not.
I will assume he is just an other man. I wont argue with that.
But look at it this way.
A simple man offered This to Humanity:

1*
You have heard the law that says, Love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike. If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. If you are kind only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else?


2*
Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets.



3*
You know that the rulers in this world lord it over their people, and officials flaunt their authority over those under them. But among you it will be different. Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first among you must be the slave of everyone else. For even the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve others and to give his life as a ransom for many.

4*
Then, calling the crowd to join his disciples, he said, If any of you wants to be my follower, you must turn from your selfish ways, take up your cross, and follow me. If you try to hang on to your life, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for my sake and for the sake of the Good News, you will save it. And what do you benefit if you gain the whole world but lose your own soul? Is anything worth more than your soul? If anyone is ashamed of me and my message in these adulterous and sinful days, the Son of Man will be ashamed of that person when he returns in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

5*
My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world.

6*
And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened.


Okay lets see What the Great Message of Muhammad is?!!!

If we compare Muhammad sayings with this 6 points I made we would try to see a difference. Like point #1 is to Muhammad is like this: Quran

. Quran 9:7-9-Dont make treaties with non-Muslims. They are all evildoers and should not be trusted.
Quran (5:51) Dont take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah will consider you to be one of them.
Quran (5:80) " You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide. Those Muslims who befriend unbelievers will abide in hell.

Muhammad is clearly making a line between humans and calling all non-Muslims as bad peoples.

Point number 2. Treat others as you wish them to treat you.
In Christianity, we accept all people even if we dont agree with them. But Muhamad:

Quran (3:85) - And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

. Quran 9:6-Those who submit and convert to Islam will be treated well.


Point number 3: Muhamad didnt serve God. Even Aisha said that God is very harsh in giving Muhammad what he desires. Yes its in Ahadith Here look. Its in arabic, It says Aisha the child Muhammad married when she was 9 years old saying that God is giving harshly what Muhammad is desiring.

( 33 : 51) ) (. :" "[.

Point number 4. It is very important to Muhammad that he enslaves all non-muslims and win this world. Wherever in Christianity your top achievement is to die preaching goodness.

Quran 9:34 Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to the rich and greedy Christian monks and Jewish rabbis.


And its goes on and on and on.

Wherever you see peaceful verses from Jesus, you hear a barbaric sayings from Quran.


I want to really know whats the Islamic view about this!!

We are humans, yes even the bible may be in some verses corrupted I admit it.
But man you Muslims got to step into the 21st century and dont let a devil fool you as a GOD.

A teacher of mine once said, sometimes the devil may disguise as an Angel!!!
But you will know them from their Fruits.

[ 112. Likewise did We make for every Messenger an enemy,- evil ones among men and jinns, inspiring each other with flowery discourses by way of deception. If thy Lord had so planned, they would not have done it: so leave them and their inventions alone. ] Surah 6

How to reverse the claim of Mr. Pagan against him ?
Mr. Pagan throws his suspicions about prophet Mohammad , such as :

Prophet Mohammad married Aisha the 6 years old .

But he tries to hide the details of prophet Mohammad's life with his wife. So Mr. Pagan will not tell you the great love between prophet Mohammad and Aisha .

For example : the prophet announce his great love to his wife , when a man asked him : O prophet , whom do you love More ? the prophet answered : Aisha . [ all Muslims knew this simple fact ] , but the man asked him again : and from men ? the prophet said : her father.

Aisha [ Allah blessed her soul ] , was a woman , as any female has the emotions and the feelings toward her beloved husband. And why not ? especially a man as prophet Mohammad , the greatest man ever , the last messenger , the mercy to all creatures , the Ruler , the leaders , the best man ever walked upon earth , the owner of the Station of Praise and Glory During the judgment day . she Must be jealous and she should be jealous from his other wives of prophet Mohammad . do you read ? I said : his wives [ it means very important thing ] .

Now to Mr. Pagan's suspicion :

1st fact : All the enemies of prophet Mohammad The Jews , the Christians , the Pagans such as you were searching for one mistake against prophet Mohammad , any act , any saying , any opportunity to attack the personality of prophet Mohammad and if his marriage from Aisha the 6 years old was something wrong or not customary during that time . then they will never pass it for him . especially when we know this marriage happened in Makkah [ the land of Pagans before the victory of Makkah ] . in their hands the authority and the power to spread the news about marriage . but none of this happened.

2nd fact : Aisha was engaged to Jobier son of Mote'em. Before She married Prophet Mohammad.

3rd fact : it was an offer by Khawlah . after the death of our Mother Khidjah [ the first wife of prophet Mohammad ] . Khawlah told Prophet Mohammed to marry Sawda[a widower ]or Aishah [ a virgin ]. Which means Aisha was ready for marriage .

Mr. Pagan knows these facts , he reads them in the books of Sirah [ the life of prophet Mohammad ] . but he does not want to show them .

I can add more facts ,and he knows more than these facts but he is an enemy .

Do you see !!! how the feud make your thinking narrow ? forces you to lie , forces you not to give the whole image , and forces you to change the facts .

Now your cheap method , and your ugly way will make the readers despise you. and who sent you will not help you , even if he encouraged you by his comments

[ 112. Likewise did We make for every Messenger an enemy,- evil ones among men and jinns, inspiring each other with flowery discourses by way of deception. If thy Lord had so planned, they would not have done it: so leave them and their inventions alone. ] Surah 6

I Finished but I did not Finish.

[otseng]

And there is the wall of self willed ignorance that can never be breached.
Even when he has been proven absolutely wrong he's still right in his self willed ignorant world.
Reality has no place in his world, reality is a sin.

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