Do we have a soul that only God can destroy?

[McCulloch]

While you may consider my statement an opinion, I will also defend it as truth. We have a soul with a consciousness that only God can destroy.

Do we have a soul with a consciousness that only God can destroy?

[YahDough]

You err to think that the mind is not a physical property associated with the brain. The mind is the soul of the body and exists outside of it. The mind is the physical property of the Creator just as the body is.

Do you have any evidence outside of scripture that suggests the mind is not a result of the action of the brain; that without the brain (a body part) there is no soul, no mind since there is no brain to produce it?

Again, do you have any evidence for your assertion, other than a quote from the Bible?

My comments pertain to the the physical nature of the mind, not the relationship between it (the mind) and the brain. My point is that if the mind of man exists, then it is a physical entity complete with a Creator and a potential Destroyer.

[no evidence no belief]

Let me suggest that consciousness is to a brain what electricity is to a dynamo,
ie not part of it, nor identical to it but wholly dependent on it.

Hence, no brain no consciousness even though 'consciousness does not equal brain'

Another good analogy is that consciousness is to a brain like software is to a computer.

By the way, has the person making the statement about the soul been reprimanded for stating as fact (rather than opinion) a notion for which he has no evidence?

Didn't think so.

[Danmark]

You err to think that the mind is not a physical property associated with the brain. The mind is the soul of the body and exists outside of it. The mind is the physical property of the Creator just as the body is.

Do you have any evidence outside of scripture that suggests the mind is not a result of the action of the brain; that without the brain (a body part) there is no soul, no mind since there is no brain to produce it?

Again, do you have any evidence for your assertion, other than a quote from the Bible?

My comments pertain to the the physical nature of the mind, not the relationship between it (the mind) and the brain. My point is that if the mind of man exists, then it is a physical entity complete with a Creator and a potential Destroyer.

So . . . the brain is just a useless organ taking up space in the skull to ... uh... give balance to the body?

What do you do with the evidence that drugs and physical trauma to the brain effect the mind, the ability to think?

What do you do with the fact that the cessation of electrical activity in the brain coincides with the physical destruction of that brain?

[no evidence no belief]

You err to think that the mind is not a physical property associated with the brain. The mind is the soul of the body and exists outside of it. The mind is the physical property of the Creator just as the body is.

Do you have any evidence outside of scripture that suggests the mind is not a result of the action of the brain; that without the brain (a body part) there is no soul, no mind since there is no brain to produce it?

Again, do you have any evidence for your assertion, other than a quote from the Bible?

My comments pertain to the the physical nature of the mind, not the relationship between it (the mind) and the brain. My point is that if the mind of man exists, then it is a physical entity complete with a Creator and a potential Destroyer.

Please clarify whether this is just mere speculation, or whether you believe that this is actually true.

If it's just speculation, we note it and thank you. I would personally invite you to keep your speculation to yourself if it along such preposterous lines, but I dont speak for everybody.

If on the other hand you think it's actually true, please provide evidence immediately.

[McCulloch]

While you may consider my statement an opinion, I will also defend it as truth. We have a soul with a consciousness that only God can destroy.

Do we have a soul with a consciousness that only God can destroy?

Yes.
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Mt:10:28

Please address the question being asked. I did not ask if the writers of the New Testament believed that we have a soul with a consciousness that only God can destroy. Nor did I ask whether this is a valid Christian doctrine. I asked whether it is actually true. YahDough, you made the bold claim that you could defend this statement as truth. So far, what you have done is show that the statement you have made is consistent with the some of writings of the New Testament. Now show that the New Testament writer was speaking truth about this matter.

You err to think that the mind is not a physical property associated with the brain. The mind is the soul of the body and exists outside of it. The mind is the physical property of the Creator just as the body is.

Mt:10:28: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

More statements of opinion. It is the opinion of YahDough and the writer of the Gospel of Matthew, that the soul exists independent of the body. Now, please do what you said you would do and defend it as truth.

[JohnPaul]

Suzy wrote:

That gave me a headache.
You are probably right. I give up on trying understanding it. Dumb blond!

Don't stay away too long! You know the story:

Question: Why do blondes get only 20 minutes off for lunch?
Answer: Because if they are gone any longer, they have to be retrained.

Sorry. I couldn't resist.

[JohnPaul]

[Replying to post 1 by McCulloch]

While there is no evidence for an eternal 'soul', or for consciousness separate and apart from what the physical brain produces, there is increasing evidence from neuropsychology of a completely material basis for the mind, for consciousness and for the unconscious.

We know that chemicals and physical trauma to the brain cause changes in personality, behavior and consciousness. We know that when certain areas of the brain are interfered with or damaged, we can predict particular dysfunctions that will result.

These findings have dealt a virtual death blow to ancient dualism that holds the mind is separate from the body.

I am not a theist or a "believer," but I must object to the conclusion of your argument here. Your argument could apply equally to a TV set, but we all know that the invisible electromagnetic signal which contains all the program information is completely separate from the material electronics which transform the signal into a physical manifestation as visual images and sound. If we poke around inside a TV set, that may produce all sorts of distortion in what we see and hear, but it has absolutely no affect on the signal itself, which contains all the essense of the program. If we destroy the TV set, the signal continues on, perhaps forever.

[mchristos606]

.

While you may consider my statement an opinion, I will also defend it as truth. We have a soul with a consciousness that only God can destroy.

Do we have a soul with a consciousness that only God can destroy

From The TRUTH BOOK :

 1. Body. The material or physical organism of man. The living electrochemical mechanism of animal nature and origin.(8.8) 0:5.8 

2. Mind. The thinking, perceiving, and feeling mechanism of the human organism. The total conscious and unconscious experience. The intelligence associated with the emotional life reaching upward through worship and wisdom to the spirit level.(8.9) 0:5.9

 3. Spirit. The divine spirit that indwells the mind of man — the Thought Adjuster. This immortal spirit is prepersonal — not a personality, though destined to become a part of the personality of the surviving mortal creature.(8.10) 0:5.10 

4. Soul. The soul of man is an experiential acquirement. As a mortal creature chooses to “do the will of the Father in heaven,� so the indwelling spirit becomes the father of a new reality in human experience. The mortal and material mind is the mother of this same emerging reality. The substance of this new reality is neither material nor spiritual — it is morontial. This is the emerging and immortal soul which is destined to survive mortal death and begin the Paradise ascension.(9.1) 0

:5.Personality. The personality of mortal man is neither body, mind, nor spirit; neither is it the soul. Personality is the one changeless reality in an otherwise ever-changing creature experience; and it unifies all other associated factors of individuality. The personality is the unique bestowal which the Universal Father makes upon the living and associated energies of matter, mind, and spirit, and which survives with the survival of the morontial soul.(9.2) 0:5.12

 6 .Morontia is a term designating a vast level intervening between the material and the spiritual. It may designate personal or impersonal realities, living or nonliving energies. The warp of morontia is spiritual; its woof is physical.

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 1 by McCulloch]

While there is no evidence for an eternal 'soul', or for consciousness separate and apart from what the physical brain produces, there is increasing evidence from neuropsychology of a completely material basis for the mind, for consciousness and for the unconscious.

We know that chemicals and physical trauma to the brain cause changes in personality, behavior and consciousness. We know that when certain areas of the brain are interfered with or damaged, we can predict particular dysfunctions that will result.

These findings have dealt a virtual death blow to ancient dualism that holds the mind is separate from the body.

I am not a theist or a "believer," but I must object to the conclusion of your argument here. Your argument could apply equally to a TV set, but we all know that the invisible electromagnetic signal which contains all the program information is completely separate from the material electronics which transform the signal into a physical manifestation as visual images and sound. If we poke around inside a TV set, that may produce all sorts of distortion in what we see and hear, but it has absolutely no affect on the signal itself, which contains all the essense of the program. If we destroy the TV set, the signal continues on, perhaps forever.

That is why a TV set makes a very poor analogy to a human brain and also explains why arguing by analogy is not helpful.
The brain does not just receive signals and process them, it generates them and does so in a way that is much more complex than, not only a TV, but a computer.

A typical human brain has about 200 billion neurons linked together by 125 trillion synapses.

the cerebral cortex -- a thin layer of tissue on the brain's surface -- is a thicket of prolifically branching neurons. "In a human, there are more than 125 trillion synapses just in the cerebral cortex alone," said Smith. That's roughly equal to the number of stars in 1,500 Milky Way galaxies, he noted.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 121803.htm

You can do the math about how many possible connections that allows, but it makes for more switches than all the computers and routers and Internet connections on Earth.

There's an interesting article comparing the brain to a computer at http://www.brainhealthhacks.com/2010/12 ... nnections/

[JohnPaul]

Danmark wrote:

That is why a TV set makes a very poor analogy to a human brain and also explains why arguing by analogy is not helpful.
The brain does not just receive signals and process them, it generates them and does so in a way that is much more complex than, not only a TV, but a computer.

A typical human brain has about 200 billion neurons linked together by 125 trillion synapses.

the cerebral cortex -- a thin layer of tissue on the brain's surface -- is a thicket of prolifically branching neurons. "In a human, there are more than 125 trillion synapses just in the cerebral cortex alone," said Smith. That's roughly equal to the number of stars in 1,500 Milky Way galaxies, he noted.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 121803.htm

You can do the math about how many possible connections that allows, but it makes for more switches than all the computers and routers and Internet connections on Earth.

There's an interesting article comparing the brain to a computer at http://www.brainhealthhacks.com/2010/12 ... an-brain-h...

My analogy was with the distinction between TV set and outside signal, not with the internal operation of the TV set itself. Of course the brain is much more complex, but its operation is still dependent on the motion of electrons through circuits and across synapses, and the triggering of these pulses and their passage or blockage at certain synapses is dependent on the atomic structure of small parts of certain molecules, which can vary through quantum effects within the molecule with no known "cause." What controls the quantum effects which vary the structure of the molecule which then pass or block electric pulses in the brain? I will not try to pass the buck to the mysteries of quantum theory here, but I still stand by my analogy.