The Gay Denomination?

[99percentatheism]

The Gay Denomination.

For those people that desire same gender sexual behavior or thoughts, AND that claim to be a Christian and claim that their beliefs and theology can fit the New Testament witness, instead of waging an endless, fruitless and vicious war on other Christians - that will NEVER accept their gay doctrines and dogmas . . ., - why won't they just declare a new and alternative denomination, just like Watch Tower theological adherants and Mormons?

Why the need to join forces with anti-Christian and secularist movements to attack "Bible believing" Christians?

Afterall, in referencing the New Testament, there is no justifiable comparison of sex acts to being a slave (slavery), or the charge of bigotry and hatefulness in holding that marriage is a man and a woman.

Why not just start an "Out and Proud" Gay Denomination?

[99percentatheism]

mitty

KCKID:

KID,
Do you really believe this is about sexual purity and holy matrimony? ."

What is holy matrimony and where is it described in the bible?

Mathew and Mark. By Jesus. defined as such also in the writings.

Or is it just another church sacrament which was introduced to raise money for the church, like the confessional and indulgences etc?

Ask a Catholic.

My first reaction is to agree with you that if it has anything to do with furthering the social and govermental power of the Roman Catholic Church, it is to be suspect.

Now, if you would be so kind, please produce one piece of scripture that celebrates a same gender "marriage" OR that affirms a homosexual encounter as appropriate?

And yes, you can use David and Jonathan, Ruth and Naomi or the Roman Commander and his slave. And of course there's always the eunuch. Of corse that one is way out there but it seems ubiquotous as well in gay theology.

So please . . . if you will?

[Danmark]

....
The LGBT "cause" is certainly about dismantling Christianity. They hostility of LGBT activism is no longer as whitewashed as it once was. The Chick-fil-A issue proved that. I make that claim most openly everyhwere I post. It is a matter of apologetics.

What seems more likely? The gays are out to get you and your church?

Go to soulforce.org and see....

Thanks! Great site! And as usual you are wrong on this issue. This is a site that takes the Bible seriously:

LIKE YOU, I TAKE THE BIBLE SERIOUSLY!
Many good people build their case against homosexuality almost entirely on the Bible. These folks value Scripture, and are serious about seeking its guidance in their lives. Unfortunately, many of them have never really studied what the Bible does and doesn’t say about homosexuality.

We gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender Christians take the Bible seriously, too. Personally, I’ve spent more than 50 years reading, studying, memorizing, preaching, and teaching from the sacred texts. I earned my master’s and doctoral degrees at a conservative biblical seminary to better equip myself to “rightly divide the word of truth.� I learned Hebrew and Greek to gain a better understanding of the original words of the biblical texts. I studied the lives and times of the biblical authors to help me know what they were saying in their day so I could better apply it to my own.

rightly dividing the word of truth, II Timothy 2:15

I’m convinced the Bible has a powerful message for gay and lesbian Christians — as well as straight Christians. But it’s not the message of condemnation we so often hear.

I’m not expecting you to take my word for it, though. I ask only that you’d consider what my research has taught me about the passages used by some people to condemn God’s gay and lesbian children. Then decide for yourself…

MY FIRST PREMISE:
Most people have not carefully and prayerfully researched the biblical texts often used to condemn God’s lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender children.

As you may know, biblical ignorance is an epidemic in the United States. A recent study quoted by Dr. Peter Gomes in The Good Book found that 38 percent of Americans polled were certain the Old Testament was written a few years after Jesus’ death. Ten percent believed Joan of Arc was Noah’s wife. Many even thought the epistles were the wives of the apostles.

This same kind of biblical ignorance is all too present around the topic of homosexuality. Often people who love and trust God’s Word have never given careful and prayerful attention to what the Bible does or doesn’t say about homosexuality.

For example, many Christians don’t know that:

Jesus says nothing about same-sex behavior.
The Jewish prophets are silent about homosexuality.
Only six or seven of the Bible’s one million verses refer to same-sex behavior in any way — and none of these verses refer to homosexual orientation as it’s understood today.

[tokutter]

tokutter

. And please, please, don't compare the wrongs commited by straight people to say that LGBT's are no different in their cause. Comparing depraved straights to the "rights" sought by LGBT's is rather a dubious Christian morality don't you think? "

99 I'm a little confused....

I'm sure you are.

. . . are you saying that in fact there are gay people...cause i thought the fundamental christian postion was they were straight people with depraved sexual lifestyles.....yes/no????

A rose by any other name right?

And is there another label being hung on my neck? I am opposed to gay theology, but where is there any evidence that I am a Fundamentalist in the defintion you imply?

....whats this comparing depraved straights to LGBT's......as far as your concerned are they not the same...or are you admitting there are in fact gay people?????

I have perfectly defined the neologism "gay" in many places. It is a "new word" developed to water down the nature of same gender sex acts and those that pursue, enjoy and endure them. Nero was "gay." Did you know that? The antagonism between "gays" and Christians is a long train of history. Did you know that the antiChristian Romans called us "Enemies of mankind" when they arrested and killed us after Nero's time had come and gone?

You must be just out of college or still stuck there. Propaganda is a very tough influence to shake. The ignoring hostory has its unsavory behaviors reappear time and time again. There is a serious reason why Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia used the phrase "Enemy of mankind" in his dissent of the majority opinion for not protecting the Defense of Marriage and Prop 8 (as marriage being man and woman husband and wife).

And yes, they are the same. Sin is sin and repentance and forgiveness is also the same. Although I know that that is hate speech "once again." Propaganda is so effective. You may have not heard of Sual Alinsky (though I be you do) but his modern tactics of social movement propaganda are well tested.

That doesn't make me a "fundamentalist" it makes me an honest person when handling Christian truth. Nothing more and nothing less.

99 I don't know what all that hand waving you just did has anything to do with my question......MAYBE SOMEBODY ELSE HERE CAN HELP...because I probably still will not get an answer..

These are you words.........NOT MINE..

"And please, please, don't compare the wrongs commited by straight people to say that LGBT's are no different in their cause. Comparing depraved straights to the "rights" sought by LGBT's is rather a dubious Christian morality don't you think?"

YOUR the one who defined two groups here...not me.....so I'll ask again

Is not the LGBT group you identified....in fact depraved straights

You, from your comments that I have read do not believe people are born gay....they choose a gay lifestyle.....a depraved lifestyle.....therefore they are depraved straights YES/NO.

OR... since you have identified 2 groups are you saying that people in fact can be homosexuals

Also....please,please if all your going to do obfuscate (and judging by your posts INCLUDING THIS ONE, that seems to be your m.o.) just don't.....I don't need to hear about Scalia or Alinsky or how the persecution of christianity is somehow tied to Kennedy assassination..... just don't.....

MAYBE SOMEBODY ELSE HERE CAN HELP ME..AM I MISSING SOMETHING????

.

[tokutter]

tokutter

. And please, please, don't compare the wrongs commited by straight people to say that LGBT's are no different in their cause. Comparing depraved straights to the "rights" sought by LGBT's is rather a dubious Christian morality don't you think? "

99 I'm a little confused....

I'm sure you are.

. . . are you saying that in fact there are gay people...cause i thought the fundamental christian postion was they were straight people with depraved sexual lifestyles.....yes/no????

A rose by any other name right?

And is there another label being hung on my neck? I am opposed to gay theology, but where is there any evidence that I am a Fundamentalist in the defintion you imply?

....whats this comparing depraved straights to LGBT's......as far as your concerned are they not the same...or are you admitting there are in fact gay people?????

I have perfectly defined the neologism "gay" in many places. It is a "new word" developed to water down the nature of same gender sex acts and those that pursue, enjoy and endure them. Nero was "gay." Did you know that? The antagonism between "gays" and Christians is a long train of history. Did you know that the antiChristian Romans called us "Enemies of mankind" when they arrested and killed us after Nero's time had come and gone?

You must be just out of college or still stuck there. Propaganda is a very tough influence to shake. The ignoring hostory has its unsavory behaviors reappear time and time again. There is a serious reason why Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia used the phrase "Enemy of mankind" in his dissent of the majority opinion for not protecting the Defense of Marriage and Prop 8 (as marriage being man and woman husband and wife).

And yes, they are the same. Sin is sin and repentance and forgiveness is also the same. Although I know that that is hate speech "once again." Propaganda is so effective. You may have not heard of Sual Alinsky (though I be you do) but his modern tactics of social movement propaganda are well tested.

That doesn't make me a "fundamentalist" it makes me an honest person when handling Christian truth. Nothing more and nothing less.

99 I don't know what all that hand waving you just did has anything to do with my question......MAYBE SOMEBODY ELSE HERE CAN HELP...because I probably still will not get an answer..

These are you words.........NOT MINE..

"And please, please, don't compare the wrongs commited by straight people to say that LGBT's are no different in their cause. Comparing depraved straights to the "rights" sought by LGBT's is rather a dubious Christian morality don't you think?"

YOUR the one who defined two groups here...not me.....so I'll ask again

Is not the LGBT group you identified....in fact depraved straights

You, from your comments that I have read do not believe people are born gay....they choose a gay lifestyle.....a depraved lifestyle.....therefore they are depraved straights YES/NO.

OR... since you have identified 2 groups are you saying that people in fact can be homosexuals

Also....please,please if all your going to do obfuscate (and judging by your posts INCLUDING THIS ONE, that seems to be your m.o.) just don't.....I don't need to hear about Scalia or Alinsky or how the persecution of christianity is somehow tied to Kennedy assassination..... just don't.....

MAYBE SOMEBODY ELSE HERE CAN HELP ME..AM I MISSING SOMETHING????

.

[tokutter]

sorry for double post...don't know how I did it or how to correct it...

[Clownboat]

Clownboat

And please, please, don't compare the wrongs commited by straight people to say that LGBT's are no different in their cause.

You seem to understand that there are all kinds of straight people out there, but the gay community all follows some cause that you seem to think is about dismantling your religion.

The LGBT "cause" is certainly about dismantling Christianity. They hostility of LGBT activism is no longer as whitewashed as it once was. The Chick-fil-A issue proved that. I make that claim most openly everyhwere I post. It is a matter of apologetics.

What seems more likely? The gays are out to get you and your church?

Go to soulforce.org and see.

or

Religious paranoia is a condition which has been compared to extremism and intolerance.[1]

It is more honest to define gay theology as religious extremism. Extreme extremism actually.

It has been cited as a possible contributor to political violence.[2]

That's a sickening propaganda tactic. But one I have heard being trumped up against The Church. The Alinskyites use it effecively.

[3] It is often related to splitting, psychological projection, a desire to maintain a sense of purity in situations of real or perceived persecution, and rigid and unchallengeable attitudes.

Persecution is coming. I digress that we Chyristians in America are enduring the persecution of Christians under Islamic cruelty. But the threats and actually cases of LGBT's harrassing and suing Christians is an indication that a very evil train is coming down the tracks looking to smash the Churches that dare stand against LGBT activism.

That's not paranoia, that is just sensible decision making based on real and perceived threats made and actualized.

My life experience leads me to believe that the later is more likely.

I have no doubt about your worldview and how it was shaped. It is an age old story about the corruption of society and civiliations. And propaganda is a very, very powerful tool in shaping opinions such as yours.

But paranoia? That is the stupidest label hung on a Bible-affirming Christian.

The common sense to know what unfettered licentiousness breeds, is anything but paranoia. It is the height of maturity and intelligence in dealing with the actual world we live in.

I think you should read the definition of religious paranoia once again. Then read your response.

Your responses only served to affirm my original thought, but it is far from proof I admit. After all, just because a person may be paranoid, that doesn't mean "they" are not out to get them.

[mitty]

mitty

KCKID:

KID,
Do you really believe this is about sexual purity and holy matrimony? ."

What is holy matrimony and where is it described in the bible?

Mathew and Mark. By Jesus. defined as such also in the writings.

Or is it just another church sacrament which was introduced to raise money for the church, like the confessional and indulgences etc?

Ask a Catholic.

My first reaction is to agree with you that if it has anything to do with furthering the social and govermental power of the Roman Catholic Church, it is to be suspect.

Now, if you would be so kind, please produce one piece of scripture that celebrates a same gender "marriage" OR that affirms a homosexual encounter as appropriate?

And yes, you can use David and Jonathan, Ruth and Naomi or the Roman Commander and his slave. And of course there's always the eunuch. Of corse that one is way out there but it seems ubiquotous as well in gay theology.

So please . . . if you will?

Where does the bible define what holy matrimony is? Answer: According to the bible a biblical marriage is simply a personal agreement between two people only, and does not require a marriage celebrant or a signed marriage contract or witnesses or any of the other wedding hoo ha. And it certainly doesn't require a recognized drunkard (Matt 11:19) to irresponsibly supply an extra truck-load of grog to an already drunk wedding party using a simple party conjuring-trick (John 2:1-10). Therefore any defacto relationship, previously referred to as "living-in-sin", is an acceptable marriage according to the bible.

Given that any monogamous relationship is a marriage according to the bible, albeit between two different genders, what is your real objection to two people wanting to protect their legal civil rights by signing a marriage/partnership agreement with or without a wedding celebration, since it is not biblically based and a civil matter only? Moreover, sexual relationships between women are not even mentioned in the bible, and Jesus didn't even mention anything about sexual relationships between men, let alone condemned them.

[99percentatheism]

tokutter

tokutter

. And please, please, don't compare the wrongs commited by straight people to say that LGBT's are no different in their cause. Comparing depraved straights to the "rights" sought by LGBT's is rather a dubious Christian morality don't you think? "

99 I'm a little confused....

I'm sure you are.

. . . are you saying that in fact there are gay people...cause i thought the fundamental christian postion was they were straight people with depraved sexual lifestyles.....yes/no????

A rose by any other name right?

And is there another label being hung on my neck? I am opposed to gay theology, but where is there any evidence that I am a Fundamentalist in the defintion you imply?

....whats this comparing depraved straights to LGBT's......as far as your concerned are they not the same...or are you admitting there are in fact gay people?????

I have perfectly defined the neologism "gay" in many places. It is a "new word" developed to water down the nature of same gender sex acts and those that pursue, enjoy and endure them. Nero was "gay." Did you know that? The antagonism between "gays" and Christians is a long train of history. Did you know that the antiChristian Romans called us "Enemies of mankind" when they arrested and killed us after Nero's time had come and gone?

You must be just out of college or still stuck there. Propaganda is a very tough influence to shake. The ignoring hostory has its unsavory behaviors reappear time and time again. There is a serious reason why Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia used the phrase "Enemy of mankind" in his dissent of the majority opinion for not protecting the Defense of Marriage and Prop 8 (as marriage being man and woman husband and wife).

And yes, they are the same. Sin is sin and repentance and forgiveness is also the same. Although I know that that is hate speech "once again." Propaganda is so effective. You may have not heard of Sual Alinsky (though I be you do) but his modern tactics of social movement propaganda are well tested.

That doesn't make me a "fundamentalist" it makes me an honest person when handling Christian truth. Nothing more and nothing less.

99 I don't know what all that hand waving you just did has anything to do with my question......MAYBE SOMEBODY ELSE HERE CAN HELP...because I probably still will not get an answer..

These are you words.........NOT MINE..

"And please, please, don't compare the wrongs commited by straight people to say that LGBT's are no different in their cause. Comparing depraved straights to the "rights" sought by LGBT's is rather a dubious Christian morality don't you think?"

YOUR the one who defined two groups here...not me.....so I'll ask again

Is not the LGBT group you identified....in fact depraved straights

"Straight" "Gay" "Lesbian" "Bi-Sexual" "Trans Sexual" etc., etc., etc.. These are very new words to describe behaviors. Are the genitalia of these people not all indicative of their "orientation"? If you have a penis, you ARE a male. A vagina? A woman. Genitalia are not designed for the same genitalia. "Depraved?" That looks to be another word that is applicable. Certainly aberrant behavior is not from a healthy mind.

You, from your comments that I have read do not believe people are born gay....they choose a gay lifestyle.....a depraved lifestyle.....therefore they are depraved straights YES/NO.

Their genitalia defines them.

OR... since you have identified 2 groups are you saying that people in fact can be homosexuals

History present and past proves that same gender sex acts is something seen in the populace.

Also....please,please if all your going to do obfuscate (and judging by your posts INCLUDING THIS ONE, that seems to be your m.o.) just don't.....I don't need to hear about Scalia or Alinsky or how the persecution of Christianity is somehow tied to Kennedy assassination..... just don't.....

You mean like you are doing right here?

MAYBE SOMEBODY ELSE HERE CAN HELP ME..AM I MISSING SOMETHING????

You are missing what thread this is. The OP is easy to understand. Address it and you don't have to worry about anything but the answer to why homosexuals shouldn't invent their own religion or denomination and allow the Christians that are faitful to the reality and truth of the New Testament won't have to endure the attacks for being bad people for not supporting homosexuals or homosexuality.

Have you ever even heard of a Mormon suing a Christian Church for not celebrating Joseph Smith's theology? That's not obfuscating, it is an honest comparison.

[99percentatheism]

And please, please, don't compare the wrongs commited by straight people to say that LGBT's are no different in their cause.

You seem to understand that there are all kinds of straight people out there, but the gay community all follows some cause that you seem to think is about dismantling your religion.

What seems more likely? The gays are out to get you and your church?

or

Religious paranoia is a condition which has been compared to extremism and intolerance.[1] It has been cited as a possible contributor to political violence.[2][3] It is often related to splitting, psychological projection, a desire to maintain a sense of purity in situations of real or perceived persecution, and rigid and unchallengeable attitudes.

My life experience leads me to believe that the later is more likely.

The way Christians are treated here and in real life proves that paranoia is simply a charge to intimidate Christians that won't become like the permissive society that demands anything goes. Oh yeah, "between consenting adults." Is it paranoia to recognize how degenerate our teens (and pre-teens) are becoming by following the adult role models of sexual depravity and promiscuity? Or is it a delusion I'm having that there is now a need for a vaccine that prevents a cancer caused by promiscuity?

[marketandchurch]

You do bring up a good point. The answer to bad religion is good religion. Not no religion...

It is one of my many missions to reach out to Gays, as a Jew, and make them more halachic and ethical, in both their beliefs and behavior.