Suicide

[Suzy]

I have excellent health and a long way to go yet before I jump of this mortal coil.
But I am going to finish my own life when or if my life is no longer enjoyable, no longer worth living and when I know it will never get better. For instance chronic pain and knowing it will get worse with no hope of relief from drugs. This can happen at any time in life so I have already thought of it. [Yes, I know I’m weird]

I am an atheist so my logic tells me that death itself is O.K. [but not necessarily getting there] I was not here for millions of years before I was born and I was fine with that. It was a breeze!

A point I should mention here is the means used to ‘end it all’ I will keep that to myself for obvious reasons but it will be painless and 100% successful. [Not jumping under a train because I am a coward and also someone has to clear all the mess up]

So to the point and I would like your views on it. What about our love ones. Some say it’s selfish to take your own life because of what you do to them. I say it’s selfish of them if they don’t let you go if you are suffering.
Me being me I have already cleared it with my family [all atheists] so I am good to go.

[Suzy]

But just going off and doing it on your own? I think that's a bad idea. You can never be sure that you aren't simply going through a depressive episode.

I am talking about coming out of the doctors surgery having been told that I am going to suffer a slow and painful death from cancer for example.
Can I be sure its not depression you say, what do you think Kayky?
Do I come over here as a bit of a dimwit to you? Don’t answer that

[keithprosser3]

I think that is the nub of the issue. I think that the suicide option has to be very much 'the last resort'.

Nothing can stop someone ODing on their own in a fit of depression, but a 'controlled suicide' - i.e. assisted suicide under some sort of medical supervision - should be subject to the patient being fully competent to make the decision. I think a doctor who assisted someone to suicide when they were only depressed would certainly be in the wrong.

I don't think people should be encouraged to commit suicide too freely - I think a lot of people have felt 'temporarily suicidal' at some point in their lives, only to be very glad 24 hours later they weren't so stupid.

But allowing suicide in hopeless cases, where a competent decision is made - that's a no brainer, and I think we will see it generally accepted within a generation or so.

[YahDough]

I have excellent health and a long way to go yet before I jump of this mortal coil.
But I am going to finish my own life when or if my life is no longer enjoyable, no longer worth living and when I know it will never get better. For instance chronic pain and knowing it will get worse with no hope of relief from drugs. This can happen at any time in life so I have already thought of it. [Yes, I know I’m weird]

I am an atheist so my logic tells me that death itself is O.K. [but not necessarily getting there] I was not here for millions of years before I was born and I was fine with that. It was a breeze!

A point I should mention here is the means used to ‘end it all’ I will keep that to myself for obvious reasons but it will be painless and 100% successful. [Not jumping under a train because I am a coward and also someone has to clear all the mess up]

So to the point and I would like your views on it. What about our love ones. Some say it’s selfish to take your own life because of what you do to them. I say it’s selfish of them if they don’t let you go if you are suffering.
Me being me I have already cleared it with my family [all atheists] so I am good to go.

If your suicide mentality is to escape eminent suffering, then your logic fails. You have falsely assumed that death brings oblivion to consciousness and an end to both joy and suffering. While you may consider my statement an opinion, I will also defend it as truth. We have a soul with a consciousness that only God can destroy.

I think it would be better to try to make peace with God before you die than to vainly try to escape God's judgment/justice through suicide.

I thank god [with a small g] that I am an atheist/realist so I am free of this nonsense.
You say “if my suicide mentality is to escape eminent suffering� Where in my post did I say anything about escaping eminent suffering?

You wrote "But I am going to finish my own life when or if my life is no longer enjoyable". That certainly implies wanting or trying to "escape eminent suffering".

What do you consider the dynamics of a life that is "no longer enjoyable"?

Yahdough seemed to be going on about suffering going on after death and I was referring to that although as I read it again I see your point.

What do I consider the dynamics of a life that is "no longer enjoyable"?.......not enjoyable. If I am not enjoying life with no hope of life improving then why go on? Its simplicity itself to me. Not to you?

You highlight one of the differences between theists and atheists.
From my point of view as an atheist I see a theist going through suffering for nothing whereas I get to avoid the suffering. Another advantage to being an atheist.

It is ignorant to think atheism has any ultimate advantage over believing in God. Perhaps atheists are comforted by the prospects of a quick death when life gets to rough. However, the reality of a soul with consciousness and a God of justice may very likely upset false hopes.

[McCulloch]

It is ignorant to think atheism has any ultimate advantage over believing in God. Perhaps atheists are comforted by the prospects of a quick death when life gets to rough. However, the reality of a soul with consciousness and a God of justice may very likely upset false hopes.

You have yet to show that what you call reality is anything more than fantasy.

[czyz]

Why is it humane to put our pets down when they suffer but if we have an incurable disease such as ALS, where we have two choices, die or suffer and die, that is not okay?

Frontline had an episode on this very topic. An American living in England developed ALS and chose assisted suicide in Switzerland. The process was controlled and his case was reviewed by medical doctors.

The process involved the man going to the pharmacy to purchase the drug, which later he was given the final choice to drink it through a straw or not. The people on hand could not pour it into his mouth.

After watching the episode I felt that this man and his wife were the bravest people I had ever witnessed. Both were scared but decided that living with something like ALS, where one dies on a ventilator, is not life. The same argument can apply for incurable cancer.

I recall the Terry Shiavo case where they took the feeding tube out of a person who had no brain activity (for years) and let her die over a two week period. What the hell? Why not inject something that will deliver death quickly in a humane way instead of going through a wait-and-see route that leads to the same outcome?

[Aetixintro]

In hooking up and bridging as Moderate and Modern Christian too, the proposal against the traditional, in making a more refined future:

The religious authority:
* allow the suicide by "herbs", medical overdose
* avert it by the capacity to protect
* refer the person elsewhere, to defend "traditional position", the place has no capacity of either to the above 2.

Also, I would like feedback on:
British legislation, suicides go again in the silence, legally speaking, awaiting "tacit" strategies, the effects of the Class Action victory. Should it not?

Good?

PS: The question of suicide may be over now, in terms of applied ethics, by the proponents, Pro-Suicide Side, having no possible hidden (black/perverse) motivation, being serious about "torturous" pains as burden to the mind before decent death!

[Sonofason]

If your suicide mentality is to escape eminent suffering, then your logic fails. You have falsely assumed that death brings oblivion to consciousness and an end to both joy and suffering. While you may consider my statement an opinion, I will also defend it as truth. We have a soul with a consciousness that only God can destroy.

That is really a wonderful thing to hear! It is so rare that believers in the afterlife do this. I eagerly look forward to seeing you defend your statement as truth. I do so much want not to miss your defense of this statement, that I have created a separate debate thread just for it. http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... hp?t=23202

I think it would be better to try to make peace with God before you die than to vainly try to escape God's judgment/justice through suicide.

There was no mention made of evading God's judgement or God's justice with regard to suicide. The argument was made that suicide may be a valid ending of a life that, in the opinion of the person living that life, has no more value. We all will die sometime and why should a person be subjected to an end period of life that consists entirely of pain and misery if he does not wish it?

Because your life may not truly be your own. In a totalitarian regime, you belong to the regime. As an infant, you belong to your parents. As a father, or mother, you belong to your children. That is why they can use words that signify a claim of possession, words like, "my father".

[10CC]

If your suicide mentality is to escape eminent suffering, then your logic fails. You have falsely assumed that death brings oblivion to consciousness and an end to both joy and suffering. While you may consider my statement an opinion, I will also defend it as truth. We have a soul with a consciousness that only God can destroy.

That is really a wonderful thing to hear! It is so rare that believers in the afterlife do this. I eagerly look forward to seeing you defend your statement as truth. I do so much want not to miss your defense of this statement, that I have created a separate debate thread just for it. http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... hp?t=23202

I think it would be better to try to make peace with God before you die than to vainly try to escape God's judgment/justice through suicide.

There was no mention made of evading God's judgement or God's justice with regard to suicide. The argument was made that suicide may be a valid ending of a life that, in the opinion of the person living that life, has no more value. We all will die sometime and why should a person be subjected to an end period of life that consists entirely of pain and misery if he does not wish it?

Because your life may not truly be your own. In a totalitarian regime, you belong to the regime. As an infant, you belong to your parents. As a father, or mother, you belong to your children. That is why they can use words that signify a claim of possession, words like, "my father".

My life is very much my own. If I decide that I no longer want it then that is my decision. No one else.

[Sonofason]

If your suicide mentality is to escape eminent suffering, then your logic fails. You have falsely assumed that death brings oblivion to consciousness and an end to both joy and suffering. While you may consider my statement an opinion, I will also defend it as truth. We have a soul with a consciousness that only God can destroy.

That is really a wonderful thing to hear! It is so rare that believers in the afterlife do this. I eagerly look forward to seeing you defend your statement as truth. I do so much want not to miss your defense of this statement, that I have created a separate debate thread just for it. http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... hp?t=23202

I think it would be better to try to make peace with God before you die than to vainly try to escape God's judgment/justice through suicide.

There was no mention made of evading God's judgement or God's justice with regard to suicide. The argument was made that suicide may be a valid ending of a life that, in the opinion of the person living that life, has no more value. We all will die sometime and why should a person be subjected to an end period of life that consists entirely of pain and misery if he does not wish it?

Because your life may not truly be your own. In a totalitarian regime, you belong to the regime. As an infant, you belong to your parents. As a father, or mother, you belong to your children. That is why they can use words that signify a claim of possession, words like, "my father".

My life is very much my own. If I decide that I no longer want it then that is my decision. No one else.

I would call that a state of denial. But, yes, you are certainly an autonomous human being with the freedom to shirk your responsibilities.

[BeckyF]

The only person who has the right to end your life is you.

I hope thar I will also control the manner and time of my passing when the time comes.

Just be utterly sure.
Good luck.

Don't let people who believe in fairytales influence you at such an important time.

If god wanted you to believe clearly he would know what he needs to do, if he cared.