Is there anyone who

[Wootah]

Is there anyone who accepts the Christian version of the bible and still rejects it?

[FarWanderer]

Seems like a self contradiction to me.

What do you mean accepts it and still rejects it?

You mean someone who accepts that what the Bible says is true, but actively refuses to follow it anyway?

[Wootah]

Seems like a self contradiction to me.

What do you mean accepts it and still rejects it?

You mean someone who accepts that what the Bible says is true, but actively refuses to follow it anyway?

Yes. So you know what is in the bible, you can see how the narrative , if true, would mean Jesus was God but you just think it is a story. Or you think it is true and real but still reject it, although that would be harder to understand, the bible says even the demons know who God is and despise God for it.

[Divine Insight]

Is there anyone who accepts the Christian version of the bible and still rejects it?

I don't believe that the bible is true. However, if I had no choice but to believe it, I would indeed reject the terms this God has laid out.

In other words, if the God of the Bible appeared before me and convinced me that he is indeed the God of the Bible and demanded that I accept the sacrifice of his son to pay for my sins, I would refuse the offer and demand that he cast me into his fiery hell pit. I would also refuse to condone his views on male-chauvinism. I would refuse to condone him creating homosexual persons, apparently at random, mixing them in with straight people, and then proclaiming that is is a sin if they act on their homosexual desires.

No, I would not condone or accept this God for many reasons.

If the Biblical God is true I reject him for sure.

In fact, this is one of the main reasons I don't believe that the Bible is true. I simply can't believe that my creator, and the creator of all mankind, could be such an immoral and heartless buffoon.

As far as I'm concerned, if the Bible is true, rather than rejoicing, we should all be extremely depressed and hopelessly distraught. The only way to avoid the wrath of this hideous God would be to condone his disgusting immorality and support it.

There is no way I could ever do that.

So yes, if the Bible is true I reject this God. I would be doomed to hell with no hope of every avoiding it. The only way I could avoid hell would be to become as hideously immoral as the Biblical God. And I have no desire to live for eternity serving a hideously immoral God.

[Sonofason]

[Replying to post 4 by Divine Insight]

The Rich Man and Lazarus

There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich mans table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abrahams side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.

But Abraham replied, Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.

He answered, Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.

Abraham replied, They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.

No, father Abraham, he said, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.

He said to him, If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.

[nejisan]

[Replying to post 4 by Divine Insight]

He said to him, If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.

Really? Then what was Jesus doing? His death was supposed to be for the sins of mankind, right? But his resurrection was supposed to reinforce his divinity, was it not? But resurrection doesn't convince the unbeliever. So God never intended the resurrection to convince anyone of anything? Why bother resurrecting him in the flesh at all then? I don't think this story answers the OP. It just kind of says " some people are just too stubborn to believe".

Which is pretty ridiculous.

How is it that an omnipotent being can't convince the "stubborn"?

That's a pretty weird Achilles heel, IMO.

To the OP. I agree with DI. If it were true I could not bend my knee to something so... evil.

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 4 by Divine Insight]

The Rich Man and Lazarus

There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich mans table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abrahams side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.

But Abraham replied, Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.

He answered, Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.

Abraham replied, They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.

No, father Abraham, he said, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.

He said to him, If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.

This kind of parable is precisely the kind of disgusting immoral ignorance and stupidity that I reject and totally oppose.

The Bible teaches extreme immorality and extreme stupidity.

Any God who expects anyone to believe such ignorant superstitious fables and hearsay rumors as these has already lost any chance of ever gaining any respect from me.

A God who is too big of a coward to show himself to people directly doesn't deserve anyone's respect.


Demanding that anyone must believe in absurdly stupid hearsay rumors that were clearly written by a male-chauvinistic thugs no better than today's modern Taliban is disgusting.

So yes Sonofason reject the pathetically immoral and disgusting God portrayed by the hearsay rumors and mythological legends of such an immoral culture.

That fact that you would even post that parable as if it has any sort of merit or wisdom only depresses me further, because it shows me how this immoral culture that created this immoral cult has convinced so many people that their immorality might actually be representative of an actually wise and benevolent God.

IMHO, there is no wisdom in the parable that you posted.

Moreover, what would that parable have to do with me anyway? I'm not a rich man who is living in luxury and ignoring poor people anyway. That parable has absolutely nothing at all to do with me or anything I posted.

[Sonofason]

[Replying to post 4 by Divine Insight]

He said to him, If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.

Really? Then what was Jesus doing? His death was supposed to be for the sins of mankind, right? But his resurrection was supposed to reinforce his divinity, was it not? But resurrection doesn't convince the unbeliever. So God never intended the resurrection to convince anyone of anything? Why bother resurrecting him in the flesh at all then? I don't think this story answers the OP. It just kind of says " some people are just too stubborn to believe".

Which is pretty ridiculous.

How is it that an omnipotent being can't convince the "stubborn"?

That's a pretty weird Achilles heel, IMO.

To the OP. I agree with DI. If it were true I could not bend my knee to something so... evil.

As you said, Jesus died on across to pay the debt that we have accrued as a result of our sin. He was raised, (in the flesh) in my opinion, not so much to convince the unbeliever to love and obey God, but to encourage those who already do.

And so the statement is likely true; If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.

It is not ridiculous. Salvation is for those who love and obey, and therefore have faith in God. That is the beginning. That is where it has to start.

Why should God convince the stubborn? What right do the stubborn have to the Kingdom of God? That is God's dwelling place. We don't have to be there. We don't deserve to be there. Why should He desire to dwell among the stubborn?

[Divine Insight]

Why should God convince the stubborn? What right do the stubborn have to the Kingdom of God? That is God's dwelling place. We don't have to be there. We don't deserve to be there. Why should He desire to dwell among the stubborn?

What are you talking about when you say "stubborn" people?

Stubborn about what?

In my post I made it clear that I totally disagree with the immorality of the God portrayed in the Bible.

What does that have to do with being stubborn?

If you disagree with the immorality of Adolf Hitler are you being "stubborn"?

The God portrayed in the Hebrew legends, is IMHO, extremely immoral.

It is that immorality that I flatly reject.

Show me a decent God and I'll worship Her.

But the God of the Bible is far from decent. He's disgusting. Even the biblical parable that you posted is disgusting.

It has nothing to do with being stubborn.

I reject the extreme immorality of the Hebrew mythological God.

I wouldn't stoop that low to save my own soul.

In fact, I wouldn't even consider my soul to be worthy of saving if I did stoop that low.

[Sonofason]

[Replying to post 4 by Divine Insight]

The Rich Man and Lazarus

There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich mans table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abrahams side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.

But Abraham replied, Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.

He answered, Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.

Abraham replied, They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.

No, father Abraham, he said, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.

He said to him, If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.

This kind of parable is precisely the kind of disgusting immoral ignorance and stupidity that I reject and totally oppose.

The Bible teaches extreme immorality and extreme stupidity.

Any God who expects anyone to believe such ignorant superstitious fables and hearsay rumors as these has already lost any chance of ever gaining any respect from me.

A God who is too big of a coward to show himself to people directly doesn't deserve anyone's respect.


Demanding that anyone must believe in absurdly stupid hearsay rumors that were clearly written by a male-chauvinistic thugs no better than today's modern Taliban is disgusting.

So yes Sonofason reject the pathetically immoral and disgusting God portrayed by the hearsay rumors and mythological legends of such an immoral culture.

That fact that you would even post that parable as if it has any sort of merit or wisdom only depresses me further, because it shows me how this immoral culture that created this immoral cult has convinced so many people that their immorality might actually be representative of an actually wise and benevolent God.

IMHO, there is no wisdom in the parable that you posted.

Moreover, what would that parable have to do with me anyway? I'm not a rich man who is living in luxury and ignoring poor people anyway. That parable has absolutely nothing at all to do with me or anything I posted.

Did I suggest that the parable has something to do with you? I only posted it because your previous comment reminded me of it. It seemed appropriate to me given the content of your previous post. Perhaps I was mistaken. Perhaps it's not relevant at all. But I thought it was.