Christian marriage is man and woman/husband and wife.

[99percentatheism]

There is no secular or theological challenge to be made that a "Christian marriage" isn't immutably a man and woman/husband and wife. Therefore, it should be a criminal act under current hate crimes laws, to accuse a Christian of hate, bigotry, or irrational . . ., if they assert the immutability of the structure of marriage as man and woman/husband and wife.

As Jesus proclaimed it in the Gospels and the writings reaffirm and define it so.

Why would anyone, religious or secularist, NOT support and affirm Christians adhering to the consistent and immutable Biblical teaching that a marriage is a man/husband and woman/wife?

[KCKID]

[Replying to KCKID]

So?

So, it's THAT frame of mind behind the subject matter that we're supposed to be debating here. One might be forgiven for pondering the question: 'is it worth continuing to debate a topic with someone who finds hostility in the every jot and the every tittle of every poster that disagrees or even questions the reasoning behind such a mindset?'

That's all ...as you were . . .

[99percentatheism]

KCKID
"'Right theology' (being 'theologically sound') has become a false idol. When it's used as a pacifier to make one feel right rather than redeemed, it breeds arrogance and is bait for an offensive controlling personality.

I agree with this description. And it can only describe the fruit of liberal and prpgressive theology. "Right theology" is absed on correct theology. Not the feelings of someone's libido.

'Right theology' has no redemptive power at all, that redemptive power only comes through a relationship with Jesus."

What Jesus? The Jesus of "anything goes" or the real One? There is no Jesus in the Gospels or described and defined in any of the letters that would so dismantle theology as to make it a "whatever you feel is right is right" premise.

KID, your theology is better described as 1960's Hippy free love behavior.

Donald Miller
Author of Searching for God Knows What[/color]

Yet the God described in the New Testament has a definition. And it based on scripture. There is a reason why KCKID cannot offer any scripture to support his demands for sexual depravity and lascivious and theological universalism to rise to the level of righteousness and holiness and sound doctrine. There is no support for the fruit of either the gay activist movment or the theology of liberalism and progressive politics to be called Christian truth. It is and always will dwell in the world and its ways. Christians reject the secularization of Christian life are the honest and ethical people in this struggle to contend against the evils stalking the Church.

[99percentatheism]

[Replying to post 1153 by Danmark]

If he wants laws like this he could always move to North Korea. Views like this is why we have a secular Constitution.

Given 99percent's frame of mind he will no doubt consider the posts of yourself and Danmark as being hostile toward "those that hold to the testimony of Jesus".

KID, mind controlling propaganda cannot replace truth for a lie. It can only manipulate the lost. Rather than to continue on your march to denigrate me personally, you would better serve your reinventing of Christianity by using scripture to invent your world of lasciviousness as holiness.

Try a new thread where you present scripture to support your new ideas for a religion that mimicks Christian truth but offers a decidely worldy ideology of sexual licentiousness that replaces the faith delivered only once to the saints.

No need to argue or get upset at me, and attack me personally, or any other Evangelical Christian, just prove why dismantling and changing Christian truth via 21st secular sexual morality is an honest thing to do.

Pretty simple right?

I eagerly await your new thread.

[keithprosser3]

@99% -

I point out the in the OP you wrote 'There is no secular or theological challenge...'. Do you concede that the secular element is not justified by your arguments?

[99percentatheism]

keithprosser3

99percentatheism:
That sounds like the justification for persecution to me.

When Chrisitians are thown in jail or fed to lions or even just prevented from worship you can talk about persecution.

This is th 21st century. Persecution "in the West" comes in more tactical ways. Label Christians as hate mongers, and the Gospel as something only ignorant uneducated fools would believe in. Marginalize Christians as so intellectually inept, that anything they say is suspect in a secular manner. And when that doesn't bow them, make sure no one in academic authority is a Conservative "Bible believing" Christian.

Where does 99%'s following of the letter of the Bible end?

Truth.

Does he want to follow Moses' example and stone anyone who works on the Sabbath, or (Moses again) massacre people who worship a different god?

99percentatheism is a Christian. Not an Israelite warrior or one of the Prophets.

Or is it just gay marriage he is concerned with?

I couldn't care less what the deviants "in the world" do. All you need to do is look up my writings here at this site. But there IS more to the gay debate than just disgust and repugnance in behaviors. It is only theology and apologetics that is important to me. I have never demanded that anti-Christians, or liberals or progressives live a Christian life. I do though oppose their theology and apologetic positions when they (Libs and Progs) claim they have Biblical support for their positions. THAT, is in keeping with the mission of the Church and the rules of this website.

Though atheism is absurdity to me now and I see it as a prophetic threat to The Church . . ., I do not demand that any atheist be ruled by a theist. I have never once cared what people that like homosexuality choose to believe in until their positions attack the Church, or are attempted to be justified in Christian labels. People like KCKID use the time warn tactics of denigrating me personally over and over again. It's laughable to me now and quite entertaining in an historic way. I am almost miraculously still standing here (so to speak) after so many a nasty secularist that have attecked me has come and gone.

There were and will always be people that can and will respect the honest Christian and an honest Christian life. I seek only to lay out the apologia about the absolute inappropriateness of gay and liberal theology as it comes crashing into (and sometimes through) the doors of The Church.

I believe fully that there will be faith on earth when Jesus returns. And even the godless will play a part in that. But it will take many standing strong for what is truth. Though it looks very dark now as the world turns into madness, a Christian should never feel lost. And its going to get worse for The Church but history has always proven the Church will keep its place.:

Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. He said: “In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared what people thought. And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’

“For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care what people think, yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually come and attack me!’�

And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?�

- Luke 18

A Christian needs to stay on the path of truth.

Ever read A Pilgrims Progress?

Even a Readers Digest version shows a consistency to Christian life that even the current age cannot defeat.

[99percentatheism]

oops again

[99percentatheism]

Oops sorry

[99percentatheism]

@Keith

Keith:
@99% -

I point out the in the OP you wrote 'There is no secular or theological challenge...'. Do you concede that the secular element is not justified by your arguments?

No more so than the reaction of secular liberals and progressives to a demand by a group of people holding a Barbeque Contest of a pig roast being held at a rented out hall or field at an Islamic Center.

The secular (liberal and progressive) cry against that would be thunderous !!!

I expect the a secularist that calls themself an honest person, would agree that labeling Christians as hate mongers and guilty of discrimination and hate crimes for not celebrating and supporting homosexuals and homosexuality . . . is itself a hate crime. THAT, is why Christians decry ENDA being passed as well as any other number of pro-homosexuality "laws" throughout the land. We KNOW that we are targets of those that hate us and they can and will and do use "anti-discrimination laws" to force us to submit to their private depravity.being celebrated "in public" by us.

I should expect more support from well-thinking atheists and other secularists of support for the Evangelical "Bible-believing" Christians on this subject.

But alas . . . sigh

Notice, at no time is there the slightest hint in my positions that you or any other "non" Christian be forced to believe in Christian marriage as the New Testament dictates. I really, actually, do not care what you believe in AS LONG AS you don't judge me or Christian values by your godless measuring stick.

The premise of the OP is simple and should be agreed to by any honest person. Marriage IS immutably man and woman/husband and wife to a Christian. No differently than the demands for gender nuetral declarations by the LGBT agenda too. Men are male. Women are female. Is that also a hate crime and religious bigotry? Or sanity? Yet, the LGBT activists use the term "heterosexism" and someone how get away with that nonsense.

This thread is about honesty, not political correctness. It should have been over with a resounding YES from each person posting but alas . . .


. . . The world and its ways.[/quote]

[czyz]

[Replying to post 1159 by KCKID]

No one was hostile to anyone. Gandhi once stated, "I love your Christ but not your Christians." Although I don't believe the Jesus of the bible existed, I will say the Jesus of the bible as portrayed was very nonjudgmental and consorted with individuals whom were deemed unworthy by the religious leaders of the day.

Fundamentalist and evangelical Christians, I have noted, tend to be a very rule oriented and judgmental group professing they are out to protect God's interests as if God really needs their help. God is a big boy, and he can handle things himself.

I personally don't understand the homosexual experience, but I have several friends who are gay, and are some of the nicest people I've ever met. It neither picks my pocket nor harms me if someone decides to sleep with a member of the same sex or in what position.

Instead of pronouncing judgment and moral authority on others, why don't you look at the plank in your eye instead of worrying about the sliver in your neighbors eye?

[Danmark]

I expect the a secularist that calls themself an honest person, would agree that labeling Christians as hate mongers and guilty of discrimination and hate crimes for not celebrating and supporting homosexuals and homosexuality . . . is itself a hate crime.

99% you have an incorrect understanding of what a 'hate crime' is.
Mere 'labeling' someone or group as a 'hate monger' or 'hate mongers' is not a crime of any kind. So called 'hate crimes' [they are frequently called 'malicious harassment' crimes] are crimes such as assault or destruction of someone's property that is motivated by animosity because of his or her perception of the victim’s race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, marital status, political ideology, age, parental status, mental, physical or sensory handicap. There actually has to be physical injury or the threat of it. Mere words or anger, by itself does not constitute a hate crime.

Not all Christians are 'hate mongers.' I assume most are not. But historically the bible has been used by people who called themselves 'Christian' to enslave and discriminate against against people who were members of the 'wrong' race, or the 'wrong' sexual orientation, or came from the 'wrong' country, or worshipped the 'wrong' way.

I think the reason you are having trouble with being 'labeled' a 'hate monger' is that Christians who focus particularly and persistently on the issue of homosexuality being evil or 'depraved' or 'lascivious', even if their targets have a long term, committed, monogamous, loving relationship is because Christianity does carry this unfortunate baggage.