Let's Discuss the Concept of Prayer

[czyz]

Each day people pray for a variety of things such as the health of a loved one or themselves, a new job, help with a problem, etc. I've done so myself in the past, and I think the reason was because I had a lot of anxiety and had no where to turn. It was essentially begging God to bend reality to my desires and it was based in fear.

But does it really work? One hears prayer requests all the time such as "pray for the victims of the house fire" but I wonder why I am praying to God to help victims of something god could have prevented in the first place. My question to god is that if you truly intervene in our inconsequential lives, why did you heap misery on people? Let's face it too, when people pray it's usually about a 50-50 chance.

I've read that written on a wall in the Nazi concentration camp of Mauthuasen-Gusen were the words, "If there is a God, he will have to beg for my forgiveness."

I don't criticize people who pray because they are fearful. If it provides comfort for them then who am I to state otherwise? I just wonder how efficacious prayer actually is as we cannot prove that it actually worked.

Thoughts?

[Strider324]

Each day people pray for a variety of things such as the health of a loved one or themselves, a new job, help with a problem, etc. I've done so myself in the past, and I think the reason was because I had a lot of anxiety and had no where to turn. It was essentially begging God to bend reality to my desires and it was based in fear.

But does it really work? One hears prayer requests all the time such as "pray for the victims of the house fire" but I wonder why I am praying to God to help victims of something god could have prevented in the first place. My question to god is that if you truly intervene in our inconsequential lives, why did you heap misery on people? Let's face it too, when people pray it's usually about a 50-50 chance.

I've read that written on a wall in the Nazi concentration camp of Mauthuasen-Gusen were the words, "If there is a God, he will have to beg for my forgiveness."

I don't criticize people who pray because they are fearful. If it provides comfort for them then who am I to state otherwise? I just wonder how efficacious prayer actually is as we cannot prove that it actually worked.

Thoughts?

There have been studies that show prayer is beneficial (and probably studies to show the opposite I'm sure). If it helps a person, go for it. Though I have yet to see proof that any supernatural deity does anything based on prayer.
The only way to prove praying works is to pray to a real entity, not an invisible one.

Prayer could easily be proven by ANY type of entity, invisible or not. All they have to do is ANSWER ONE - No, not the prayer that I get a merit increase at my job, or that my dog gets over his diarrhea in 2 days instead of 3. Just ONE instance of an entity answering the prayer to restore someones.....ANYONES... missing flesh and blood arm or leg.

But these are NEVER the prayers that get answered, are they? They are ever and ALWAYS the prayers that have natural explanations or are mathematically predictable. Go figger.....

[1213]

And Jesus himself was clearly a liar if he actually said the following:

John.14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

If Jesus actually said these words, then he was a liar.

No one gave Jesus a better opportunity to glorify the Father in the Son than Mother Teresa. Yet there was nothing. No answers to her prayers at all.

Was Mother Teresa disciple of Jesus?

I believe that those words that Jesus said are true. But I think it was not meant for all, because then Jesus would have to do also things that people ask that may not be good. For example if Satan would ask Jesus to kill all his disciples, it would not be good thing in my opinion and I think Jesus wouldn’t do that.

[connermt]

Each day people pray for a variety of things such as the health of a loved one or themselves, a new job, help with a problem, etc. I've done so myself in the past, and I think the reason was because I had a lot of anxiety and had no where to turn. It was essentially begging God to bend reality to my desires and it was based in fear.

But does it really work? One hears prayer requests all the time such as "pray for the victims of the house fire" but I wonder why I am praying to God to help victims of something god could have prevented in the first place. My question to god is that if you truly intervene in our inconsequential lives, why did you heap misery on people? Let's face it too, when people pray it's usually about a 50-50 chance.

I've read that written on a wall in the Nazi concentration camp of Mauthuasen-Gusen were the words, "If there is a God, he will have to beg for my forgiveness."

I don't criticize people who pray because they are fearful. If it provides comfort for them then who am I to state otherwise? I just wonder how efficacious prayer actually is as we cannot prove that it actually worked.

Thoughts?

There have been studies that show prayer is beneficial (and probably studies to show the opposite I'm sure). If it helps a person, go for it. Though I have yet to see proof that any supernatural deity does anything based on prayer.
The only way to prove praying works is to pray to a real entity, not an invisible one.

Prayer could easily be proven by ANY type of entity, invisible or not. All they have to do is ANSWER ONE - No, not the prayer that I get a merit increase at my job, or that my dog gets over his diarrhea in 2 days instead of 3. Just ONE instance of an entity answering the prayer to restore someones.....ANYONES... missing flesh and blood arm or leg.

But these are NEVER the prayers that get answered, are they? They are ever and ALWAYS the prayers that have natural explanations or are mathematically predictable. Go figger.....

Which is why you'd pray to a real entity, not an invisible one.
However, stats & individual bias also play a role:
If you pray to the same thing 100 times & 1 prayer works in your favor, does that prove prayer works?
I suppose it depends on whom is asked

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 12 by 1213]

Yes, she was. She lived a life of faith in action.

[JoeyKnothead]

From the OP:

Each day people pray for a variety of things such as the health of a loved one or themselves, a new job, help with a problem, etc. I've done so myself in the past, and I think the reason was because I had a lot of anxiety and had no where to turn.

I remember praying there, every night, that I could watch me two hot chicks just tear at it.

It was essentially begging God to bend reality to my desires and it was based in fear.

I was a-beggin' for the reality-bendin', I s'pose, but I sure wasn't scared if it did.

But does it really work?

Anecdotal data alert:

One can sometimes find them a hot chick, and offer upwards of ten dollars and a shot of liquor if she'll get it on with a 'nother hot chick, and I'm here to tell it, prayers can come true. But if it do, it's your moral imperative to give 'em the good liquor, and not that store-bought blasphemy. And that if you didn't pray it right there to begin with, you'll be danged sure to offer up the amens when it happens.

One hears prayer requests all the time such as "pray for the victims of the house fire" but I wonder why I am praying to God to help victims of something god could have prevented in the first place.

I never felt myself the victim of prayers, so much as the benefitee of the ones I did pray.

My question to god is that if you truly intervene in our inconsequential lives, why did you heap misery on people?

My question to God is, and I 'preciate 'em gettin' answered, but why can't it cost a bit less than what I pay. Naw that ain't right, I've spilt more'n a hunderd dollars to make it happen.

Let's face it too, when people pray it's usually about a 50-50 chance.

And here I went, I went from ten dollars to a hunderd, and I coulda said fifty and run up there and bought 'em some of the store-bought liquor

I've read that written on a wall in the Nazi concentration camp of Mauthuasen-Gusen were the words, "If there is a God, he will have to beg for my forgiveness."

Remember that episode there, where Daffy Duck's head turned into the head of an ass? Danged if mine didn't just did.

I don't criticize people who pray because they are fearful.

I criticize 'em 'cause most often they stop trying to affect events right after.

If it provides comfort for them then who am I to state otherwise?

Ain't built for comfort

[youtube][/youtube]

I just wonder how efficacious prayer actually is as we cannot prove that it actually worked.

Prayer works, if'n you got the money to make 'em come true.

Thoughts?

I don't 'preciate you tricking me into thinkin'. Now that ya have though, I swear up and down I did me some of it there up above.

(edit for fix youtubulator)
(edit2 in a sad attempt to hide the tracks of my dooficity)

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 5 by Divine Insight]

Do you know anything about Mother Teresa or the efficacy of her prayers? What she feels in any given quote reflects nothing.

I look at Mother Teresa and what I understand she did was on the strength of her faith in the Bible. The fruit isn't in our prayers but our works and she seems to have done alright.

The problem with Christianity is that, if it were true, then Jesus himself would need to be the biggest liar who ever lived.

I think your post somehow actually hits the nail on the head and CS Lewis wrote that Jesus is either a liar or lord. I don't think anyone that understands God would reject God so I think there are things you don't understand but the quote reflects a very good point that comes up time and time again. Jesus is either who he claims to be or the biggest liar in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis's_trilemma

[Goat]

[Replying to post 5 by Divine Insight]

Do you know anything about Mother Teresa or the efficacy of her prayers? What she feels in any given quote reflects nothing.

I look at Mother Teresa and what I understand she did was on the strength of her faith in the Bible. The fruit isn't in our prayers but our works and she seems to have done alright.

The problem with Christianity is that, if it were true, then Jesus himself would need to be the biggest liar who ever lived.

I think your post somehow actually hits the nail on the head and CS Lewis wrote that Jesus is either a liar or lord. I don't think anyone that understands God would reject God so I think there are things you don't understand but the quote reflects a very good point that comes up time and time again. Jesus is either who he claims to be or the biggest liar in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis's_trilemma

AH yes, the good old Lewis' trilemma logical fallacy. There are other possibilities.

1) He was misinterpreted.
2) The writers about him wrote vaguely , and are misinterpreted.
3) The writers about him are the ones that lied.
4) The writers about him just were plain mistaken.