What if it was all true?

[dbohm]

What if orthodox Christianity was true?

How would you feel?

So here is the hypothetical to the non-Christian.

Let's say it became clear to you without a shadow of a doubt that Christian teachings were true - there is a God, Jesus was his Son and rose again, that there are consequences to our actions in this life and after we die, and the only way to be sure of our salvation was through Jesus Christ.

Question:

How would you feel about this?
Would it make you angry? Would you be happy? Would you believe everything is so unfair? etc.

[connermt]

What if orthodox Christianity was true?



Question:

1)How would you feel about this?
2)Would it make you angry?
3)Would you be happy?
4) Would you believe everything is so unfair? etc.

1) Probably very introspective about my decisions to a point.
2) That it was right, no. That god didn't do enough to convince me, yes
3) Doubtful
4) Most likely

But what it was all false?

[Divine Insight]

How would you feel about this?

I would be totally disgusted and sick to my stomach.


Would it make you angry?

No. I would just be totally disgusted with our creator. The thought that we had been created by such a jerk, wouldn't make me angry. Just disgusted.


Would you be happy?

Are you kidding me?

If Christianity were true it would be the absolute saddest thing I can imagine.

And it wouldn't matter to me if I was personally guaranteed to go to heaven, I would still be totally disgusted with the whole thing.

In fact, going to this God's heaven would be a nightmare.

Would you believe everything is so unfair? etc.

It would be a matter of being "fair". It would just be disgusting.

If a demon had created you to worship him how can you say that's "unfair"?

It may be unfair to you as the helpless victim of his creation, but would your subjective opinion of "fairness" count if you had been created by a demonic God?

Fairness has to do with "righteousness". If the God himself is not righteous then the whole idea of fairness is nothing more than a hopeless human dream.

~~~~

Although, in all "fairness" the Biblical picture cannot be true verbatim anyway because it's so extremely convoluted and self-contradictory.

The God of the Bible cannot possible exist as described by the Bible because those descriptions would require that God be an oxymoronic entity.

For example, just take a look at one aspect of the New Testament alone.

In the Gospel of John we see the following:

John.3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

So according to John if you merely don't believe that Jesus was the only begotten son of God you will be condemned.

But then we see in Luke the following:

Luke.23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.

This is Jesus hanging on the cross at his crucifixion asking God to forgive people for they know not what they do.

So according to Jesus, you can spit in his face, beat on him, mock him, and nail him to a pole and he'll still forgive you.

This is in direct violation and contradiction with John's proclamation that to merely not believe in Jesus is grounds for condemnation.

And ironically if we go back to John we also see the following:

John.5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

So according to John, Jesus has the last work on judgment, and NOT God.

Therefore according to Jesus you can mock him, beat on him, blaspheme against him, and even nail him to a pole and kill him and he will forgive you.

That's a far cry from condemning you for merely not believing in him.

So which should we believe? John or Jesus?

The religion is so grossly inconsistent it's impossible to even know what it's trying to say.

So in all fairness, we can't really say how we might feel if it's "true" because we have absolutely no clue what that might even mean.

The religion is so self-contradictory it's impossible to know what it's even supposed to be saying.

~~~~~

Clearly though Christianity pretty much demands that Jesus was God's son and that this God saw fit to have his very own priests call for the brutal crucifixion of his own son.

So I don't see how this God can get out of this without being an absolute sick demented monster no matter what.

So from my perspective if the overall story is true, then I'm disgusted with our creator and sick to my stomach.

A purely accidentally secular existence would be far more righteous.

Fortunately there are other potential scenarios to consider. After all, why should it need to come down to either pure secular atheism versus Hebrew mythology?

There are tons of other spiritual philosophies out there. Why get hung up on Hebrew mythology?

There are many Eastern Mystical views of God that are far more positive and uplifting than either pure secular atheism or Hebrew mythology.

So why bother with either one of those two?

[The Me's]

What if orthodox Christianity was true?

How would you feel?

As a born-again, fundamentalist Christian, I would feel saddened and let down.

Jesus was Jewish, not Orthodox Christian.

Yes, I know, not a lot of difference as a result, at least not on the surface. But the entire structure of OT support for Jesus as the messiah would collapse if Orthodoxy turned out to be the true form of Christianity as God intended.

[dbohm]

What if orthodox Christianity was true?

How would you feel?

As a born-again, fundamentalist Christian, I would feel saddened and let down.

Jesus was Jewish, not Orthodox Christian.

Yes, I know, not a lot of difference as a result, at least not on the surface. But the entire structure of OT support for Jesus as the messiah would collapse if Orthodoxy turned out to be the true form of Christianity as God intended.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean.

I may have confused you - by Orthodox I do not necessarily mean Greek or Russian Orthodox i mean it more in the sense of C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity as say expressed in the Apostle and Nicene Creeds.

[The Me's]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean.

I may have confused you - by Orthodox I do not necessarily mean Greek or Russian Orthodox i mean it more in the sense of C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity as say expressed in the Apostle and Nicene Creeds.

That's not a clear enough explanation to tell me what you mean by "Orthodox" except that you didn't name any Jewish sources.

What I mean by saying Jesus was Jewish is this:
--he had Jewish parents
--he attended synagogue
--he read exclusively Jewish scripture
--he attended Jewish festivals
--he associated only with Jewish people (usually)

For the first 20 years of it's history, Christianity was so Jewish that no one outside Israel could tell the difference between Jews and Christians. For a short time, none of the apostles would even approach gentiles because they thought Christianity was just another sect of Judaism.

If a Christian wants to consider themselves "orthodox" (small "o"), they should consider themselves Jewish by religion at a minimum.

[dbohm]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean.

I may have confused you - by Orthodox I do not necessarily mean Greek or Russian Orthodox i mean it more in the sense of C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity as say expressed in the Apostle and Nicene Creeds.

That's not a clear enough explanation to tell me what you mean by "Orthodox" except that you didn't name any Jewish sources.

What I mean by saying Jesus was Jewish is this:
--he had Jewish parents
--he attended synagogue
--he read exclusively Jewish scripture
--he attended Jewish festivals
--he associated only with Jewish people (usually)

For the first 20 years of it's history, Christianity was so Jewish that no one outside Israel could tell the difference between Jews and Christians. For a short time, none of the apostles would even approach gentiles because they thought Christianity was just another sect of Judaism.

If a Christian wants to consider themselves "orthodox" (small "o"), they should consider themselves Jewish by religion at a minimum.

Again I'm not exactly sure how this is all relevant to the OP. I'm not claiming that Messianic Judaism is heretical (it is basically the definition of Christianity) and I'm not denying all the points you make above. In fact I don't know any major Christian denomination that does or who would deny that Christianity is a form of Judaism. Those that do, like Marcion, have been called heretics.

You seem to be arguing a non-issue and picking a fight for the sake of making a less than clear point.

[The Me's]

Again I'm not exactly sure how this is all relevant to the OP. I'm not claiming that Messianic Judaism is heretical (it is practically the definition of Christianity) and I'm not denying all the points you make above. In fact I don't know any major Christian denomination that does or who would deny that Christianity is a form of Judaism. Those that do, like Marcion, have been called heretics.

You seem to be arguing a non-issue and picking a fight for the sake of making a less than clear point.

I didn't say "Messianic Judaism", I said Judaism, the religion of Abraham and Moses.

What does it have to do with the OP?

You asked if Orthodox turned out to be correct? I replied that I would be disappointed because that would mean Jesus was wrong (he wasn't orthodox, he was Jewish, and his ministry was founded upon exclusively Jewish concepts that European Christians quickly distorted, usually unknowingly).

Since that time there has been a big hole in Christianity, and it's a tragedy. For the most part, we either overcome centuries of misguided traditions or we live in ignorance of what Jesus meant with many of his teachings.

As he once said, "Those teachers of the law who are now my disciples have double treasures."

[FarWanderer]

[Replying to post 1 by dbohm]

The problem with this hypothetical is that in order to engage it in an interesting fashion, I have to imagine "believing in Christianity" in a way that does not entail a necessary belief in God's goodness and justness.

Otherwise, anyone who believes in Christianity has to think it's the most awesome and fair system ever. Christianity basically defines itself that way.

But then, without assuming God's goodness and justness, could this hypothetical me really be said to believe in Christianity?

But yeah OK, here's the bizzaro me who believes Christianity is true in every regard except for God's goodness and justness:

-Also should say that I'm assuming the existence of hell (the OP wasn't very explicit).

How would you feel about this?

Appalled.

Would it make you angry?

Yes. On behalf of all those unjustly tortured for eternity. I would also be angry at anyone who thought this was OK.

In fact, I think I would probably be far more angry at Christians who claim God's goodness and justness than I am now. As things are, it's just not real enough for me to get worked up about.

Would you be happy?

No. Appalled.

Would you believe everything is so unfair?

Well, if I learned the (hypothetical) truth while I was still savable I don't think I'd complain much on my own behalf. If getting into heaven just meant accepting Jesus, then that's easy enough.

But it does seem that anyone who has died in ignorance got a seriously raw deal. Definitely not fair.

[Joab]

What if orthodox Christianity was true?

How would you feel?

So here is the hypothetical to the non-Christian.

Let's say it became clear to you without a shadow of a doubt that Christian teachings were true - there is a God, Jesus was his Son and rose again, that there are consequences to our actions in this life and after we die, and the only way to be sure of our salvation was through Jesus Christ.

Question:

How would you feel about this?
Would it make you angry? Would you be happy? Would you believe everything is so unfair? etc.

I would wonder why anybody would choose to spend eternity with the bible god.

I think there would be far more pleasant maniacs in hell.