Before the Big Bang

[McCulloch]

The Big Bang is not an explosion of matter moving outward to fill empty space. Instead, space itself expands with time. Because of relativity, space and time are linked together in a way analogous to the way that matter and energy are. There is no time without space. There is no space without time. The Big Bang may have been the beginning point of the spacetime continuum. There is no theoretical before the big bang. Even if there are space-like and time-like dimensions outside of the universe, like before the big bang, we are necessarily ignorant of them. The have no meaning to us.

Thats what i mean by stating in another thread that cosmology without God forces us to ridiculous conclusion... and you dont seem the sort to make such a statement as "there was no before the big bang"... I know the definition, I followed Hawking closely... and there was obviously a "before it happened"

Is it meaningful to speak of a time before the Big Bang? Is the obvious answer necessarily correct?

[bornofgod]

[Replying to post 29 by bornofgod]

Funny, if you were born just 30 years earlier you wouldn't think any of this gobbledygook. But no, you have to take little bits and pieces of whatever science happens to catch your fancy, and then put a layer of pseudo-mysticism that has no viable standing in this world. Your worldview is fickle and weak. A shameful orphan of ideologies and observations about the world that could've been so much better.

But if you think I'm wrong, feel free to provide evidence.

I understand way more than any physicist on this planet and I can use analogies that they can't use to explain who we are and how life began. You can't do this and neither can anyone else in this world.

[Neatras]

[Replying to post 31 by bornofgod]


"I can do this. I can do that." For someone wrapped up in the idea of illusions, you seem to have missed the most important fact of them. When someone finds out another person is tricking them, it's impossible to keep up the act. You have no influence here.

[otseng]

If God's people ever learn that a dot on a piece of paper is only an illusion and not reality, then they will learn that our true existence cannot be seen at all. Invisible vibrations is our reality that when processed into information we can understand, they become illusions that we believe in as being real. A dot drawn on a piece of paper requires processed vibrations to make the dot, the pencil and the paper besides the hand that drew it.

And how do you know that? Please provide support for this claim.

I was taught everything from the one who created all the illusions you believe are real in this world.

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[bornofgod]

[Replying to post 31 by bornofgod]


"I can do this. I can do that." For someone wrapped up in the idea of illusions, you seem to have missed the most important fact of them. When someone finds out another person is tricking them, it's impossible to keep up the act. You have no influence here.

And what knowledge do you share in this forum to influence anyone to your way of thinking?

[benlukta]

I think the world was progressing in very slow pace before the occurrence of big bang. After the big bang every thing changed very fast.

[McCulloch]

I think the world was progressing in very slow pace before the occurrence of big bang. After the big bang every thing changed very fast.

I think that this post shows that the Big Bang model is not well understood. Firstly, the word world usually refers to the earth, which did not exist until several billion years after the Big Bang event. Secondly, according to the model, we cannot know what happened, if anything, before the Big Bang.

[wiploc]

... The Big Bang may have been the beginning point of the spacetime continuum. There is no theoretical before the big bang.

That doesn't follow. That's like saying, "There may not be a sandwich in your bag, therefore you definitely can't eat it."

I followed Hawking closely... and there was obviously a "before it happened"

Provide a quotation as evidence, please. This seems inconsistent with what I've read him saying.

Is it meaningful to speak of a time before the Big Bang? Is the obvious answer necessarily correct?

Sure it is. I can't tell if the big bang was an actual beginning because people keep hedging. Hawking and Asimov, for instance, both said things like, "The big bang was the beginning of time---or at least we can say it was because we don't know what happened before that." That, "before that" language wasn't incoherent or un-meaningful.

[arian]

The Big Bang is not an explosion of matter moving outward to fill empty space. Instead, space itself expands with time. Because of relativity, space and time are linked together in a way analogous to the way that matter and energy are. There is no time without space. There is no space without time. The Big Bang may have been the beginning point of the spacetime continuum. There is no theoretical before the big bang. Even if there are space-like and time-like dimensions outside of the universe, like before the big bang, we are necessarily ignorant of them. The have no meaning to us.

Thats what i mean by stating in another thread that cosmology without God forces us to ridiculous conclusion... and you dont seem the sort to make such a statement as "there was no before the big bang"... I know the definition, I followed Hawking closely... and there was obviously a "before it happened"

Is it meaningful to speak of a time before the Big Bang? Is the obvious answer necessarily correct?

Once you say 'big-bang', then we are free to ask; "where, what, when etc." If there is a beginning, or a start of something it has to have a reason, and there has to be something before it and the place it is happening in.

If you say 13.75 billion years ago, then another Big-banger says 14.2 billion years ago, the 'when' becomes more louder.

When you say a speck of something like a quantum gravity residing in a point in space before it created space, then the questions "what and where" becomes real loud.

If you say; "Even if there are space-like and time-like dimensions outside of the universe, like before the big bang, we are necessarily ignorant of them. The have no meaning to us", then I would wonder; "why would intelligent men waste all this time and all that energy on coming to a conclusion that there must have been a Big-bang 13.75 billion years ago creating our time and space, and not wonder what was there before the Big-bang, and where, or in what did this big-bang happen in?

"It has no meaning to us" .. Really? Why, is there something that the universe is IN that frightens them?

"Aahh.. we don't want to go there, .. it makes no sense spending our valuable time on wondering what or who might have caused the speck of gravity or string to appear, and what it was or is that it is in, .. and then we have all the evolution stuff like monkeys turning into humans we have to explain to people, so we don't have the time for nonsense like asking "what was there before the Big Bang?" We also have a lot of fossils to organize and cave-paintings to interpret and write books on."

But I'm glad you asked McCulloch, my undoubted answer is 'God'. Not just any god, but the Creator God, the One and Only, and yes it is He of whom atheists say: "We are necessarily ignorant of Him because a Creator God has no meaning to us!"

[McCulloch]

Once you say 'big-bang', then we are free to ask; "where, what, when etc." If there is a beginning, or a start of something it has to have a reason, and there has to be something before it and the place it is happening in.

Ok, how about asking the question where? Where did the big bang happen? This question has no meaning either. The big bang was the beginning of space. Space itself expanded from the big bang. It is common for people who do not have a conceptual grasp of relativity to imagine that the big bang was a very small particle that exploded and expanded into the surrounding space. But that is not how the theory works. Space itself is said to be expanding from that initial event. You cannot meaningfully ask where the big bang happened.

When you say a speck of something like a quantum gravity residing in a point in space before it created space, then the questions "what and where" becomes real loud.

Like that. Big Bang cosmology does not claim that there was a speck of something residing in a point in space, that caused or became the universe. It asserts that the universe, including space was once all condensed into a very small size and that the universe has been continually expanding since that event.

But I'm glad you asked McCulloch, my undoubted answer is 'God'. Not just any god, but the Creator God, the One and Only, and yes it is He of whom atheists say: "We are necessarily ignorant of Him because a Creator God has no meaning to us!"

Thank you for your unsupported opinion on this matter. Please provide some verifiable information about the Creator God.

[arian]

Once you say 'big-bang', then we are free to ask; "where, what, when etc." If there is a beginning, or a start of something it has to have a reason, and there has to be something before it and the place it is happening in.

Ok, how about asking the question where? Where did the big bang happen? This question has no meaning either. The big bang was the beginning of space. Space itself expanded from the big bang. It is common for people who do not have a conceptual grasp of relativity to imagine that the big bang was a very small particle that exploded and expanded into the surrounding space. But that is not how the theory works. Space itself is said to be expanding from that initial event. You cannot meaningfully ask where the big bang happened.

Thank you for responding McCulloch.
So you saying that if I imagine that the big bang was a very small particle that exploded and expanded into the surrounding space. I don't have a conceptual grasp of relativity, .. and that it is meaningless to ask 'where the big-bang happened'?

If this is because as you say: "Space itself is said to be expanding from that initial event"? Then it is not I who am asking meaningless questions, but the Big-bang Evolutionists are using their religious influence, their power of indoctrination to limit the questioning. This is what happened in my Christian denomination, they would always tell me; "You cannot ask those questions, .. just accept the FACT that we don't know!"

If something 'expanded' from its initial state, or event, .. wait, was this 'event' a physical reality, or just a made-up story that eventually evolves into reality? Because if something, whatever it may be expands, it has to be expanding in something. Even a story, or a dream expands in our mind, so how can an entire universe be expanding in 'mum' or (___?___)?

When you say a speck of something like a quantum gravity residing in a point in space before it created space, then the questions "what and where" becomes real loud.

Like that. Big Bang cosmology does not claim that there was a speck of something residing in a point in space, that caused or became the universe. It asserts that the universe, including space was once all condensed into a very small size and that the universe has been continually expanding since that event.

They did and they do say this especially them famous TV Big-bang scientists even give examples of the size of our universe 'before' the Big-bang. I often heard the size of a bowling ball, then being compressed down to the size of a tennis ball, then down to the size of a pinhead before it exploded.

Then after the explosion, as you even say here, it continues to expand. Unless now the word expand doesn't really mean what it means? You know, like the 'nothing' which they say is 'not nothing' anymore and all those other 'Special Relativity' stuff!?!

Also, are you saying that the 'very dense and very hot' something/whatever already had space in it? That it was once all being condensed into a very small size which is now expanding? And that this space within the universe is expanding, yet not taking up any space?

They also use the balloon example, how deceptive. Why don't they show a balloon expanding only from the inside, and not taking up more and more space on the outside? You know for simple minded people like me, so I wouldn't ask all these nonsense questions.

You see my friend, this is why I hate religions, they force their doctrines on us no matter how ridiculous it may sound. In time they stupefy us to a point where a billion of us will bow in worship of a black meteor and call this opportunity as one of life's greatest achievements. Or teach the message of LOVE of Christ with the edge of a sword, or by burning people alive on a pole, .. all because some people refuse to accept their "because I said so's".

But I'm glad you asked McCulloch, my undoubted answer is 'God'. Not just any god, but the Creator God, the One and Only, and yes it is He of whom atheists say: "We are necessarily ignorant of Him because a Creator God has no meaning to us!"

Thank you for your unsupported opinion on this matter. Please provide some verifiable information about the Creator God.

If observing the wonders around you is not proof enough for a Creator God, yet you can imagine something very small dense and hot expanding bigger and bigger (our universe) yet not taking up space, then you have me at a loss for words.

There is nothing else I can show you that could penetrate your religious views. Religion has enslaved you in a specific train of thought, and as long as you are content with such bazaar way of thinking, I can't help you escape. Where there is a will, there is a way, so are you willing?

Like me on this forum, you guys have shown me so much, but I did not let myself be indoctrinated, but realizing the flaws I spoke out and we debated. But look, even though I have proven Big bang Evolutionary concepts otherwise, you guys are sticking with your religion.