Welcome!

[His Name Is John]

It seems to me, that new members rarely post a introduction thread anymore. As such I am making this thread as a way that new members can say hi, and get to know a couple of people on the forums.

So to all the new members:

First of all, hello!

Second, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?

[dalekidd1956]

[Replying to post 167 by McCulloch]


Thanks for the welcome. I do like apologetics. I will explain "dabbling". It is a relative term. I am smart enough to know that the subject matter is very deep and very broad. I also know that there are many out there who are far superior in intellect and knowledge than I, and I'm guessing there are some on this site. Relatively speaking my knowledge of the subject is elementary. I have taught apologetics at the high school level. I have preached many sermons that were of an apologetic nature. I have taught adult institute level apologetics. I did a thesis for one of my degrees that I entitled "A Christian Apologetic". When I wrote that I realized just how deep the subject is and I have not scratched the surface. So, I probably have more knowledge than most but not near as much as some. As Danmark has stated in another thread, I imagine there are some here who could take me out at the feet.

BTW - You might consider Strobel, Ham, and McDowell popular apologists; but why do you put Craig on the list? Sure some of his writing is popular but he is a scholar par excellence.

[McCulloch]

[Replying to post 168 by dalekidd1956]

When discussing stuff with debaters choose your words carefully. We sometimes read what you actually write not what you intend to mean. The amount of involvement with apologetics you describe cannot without false modesty be called dabbling. Perhaps you meant to say that you have not explored the subject as much as you would have liked.

Perhaps I'll have a closer look at Craig. Thanks.

[Goat]

[Replying to post 167 by McCulloch]


Thanks for the welcome. I do like apologetics. I will explain "dabbling". It is a relative term. I am smart enough to know that the subject matter is very deep and very broad. I also know that there are many out there who are far superior in intellect and knowledge than I, and I'm guessing there are some on this site. Relatively speaking my knowledge of the subject is elementary. I have taught apologetics at the high school level. I have preached many sermons that were of an apologetic nature. I have taught adult institute level apologetics. I did a thesis for one of my degrees that I entitled "A Christian Apologetic". When I wrote that I realized just how deep the subject is and I have not scratched the surface. So, I probably have more knowledge than most but not near as much as some. As Danmark has stated in another thread, I imagine there are some here who could take me out at the feet.

BTW - You might consider Strobel, Ham, and McDowell popular apologists; but why do you put Craig on the list? Sure some of his writing is popular but he is a scholar par excellence.

I think you vastly overestimate his scholarship. He is a good bamboozler, but his logic, and clarity of thought is less than stellar. His philosophical arguments rely on the ignorance of his audience about the reasonableness of his premises.

I find he represents everything that I find bad about the field of philosophy. The techniques that he uses is one of the reasons I rather despise about 90% of philosophical arguments.

[dalekidd1956]

[Replying to post 168 by dalekidd1956]

When discussing stuff with debaters choose your words carefully. We sometimes read what you actually write not what you intend to mean. The amount of involvement with apologetics you describe cannot without false modesty be called dabbling. Perhaps you meant to say that you have not explored the subject as much as you would have liked.

That was why I used the term "relative". As for "false modesty", I assure you, there is nothing false about it. I have been up front about myself. I know some things, but there is far more that I do not know (or can't remember off the cuff). And, yes, I do wish I knew more. Maybe as I hang around here, I will get a better feel for the "relative" strength of my knowledge compared to other forum members.

[dalekidd1956]

[Replying to post 170 by Goat]

Ummm? My overall experience may be somewhat limited but Craig seems to be highly respected in the realm of Christian apologetics. I was a member of the EPS for a few years and attended a couple conferences. He seemed to be one of the "fathers" of the society. I have read several of his books and was always impressed. But then my knowledge of formal philosophy is cursory.

[Goat]

[Replying to post 170 by Goat]

Ummm? My overall experience may be somewhat limited but Craig seems to be highly respected in the realm of Christian apologetics. I was a member of the EPS for a few years and attended a couple conferences. He seemed to be one of the "fathers" of the society. I have read several of his books and was always impressed. But then my knowledge of formal philosophy is cursory.

Well, there is the subsection of 'Christian apologetics', then there are formal philospohers, and then there are biblical scholarship. From my viewpoint that Christian Apologestics is an industry that is dedicated to selling books to those people who already believe to reassure them they made the right choice. Craig fits the 'sounds good, but not if you actually look at what he said' category. It doesn't seem to have respect from many of the mainstream biblical scholars, or a lot of the mainstream philosophers. But he sounds good.. and let's people feel good about their own beliefs.

[dalekidd1956]

[Replying to post 173 by Goat]

From my viewpoint that Christian Apologestics is an industry that is dedicated to selling books to those people who already believe to reassure them they made the right choice.

You are only partially correct; and I'm not sure I even like the word "industry" and its implications. Most of those involved would look at it as "ministry". I believe apologetics has two purposes: one to bolster believers in their faith; two to answer/convince naysayers. The apologists that I know of speak, debate, write, etc. with both in mind.

What kind of "industry" do the "new" atheists have?

[Goat]

[Replying to post 173 by Goat]

From my viewpoint that Christian Apologestics is an industry that is dedicated to selling books to those people who already believe to reassure them they made the right choice.

You are only partially correct; and I'm not sure I even like the word "industry" and its implications. Most of those involved would look at it as "ministry". I believe apologetics has two purposes: one to bolster believers in their faith; two to answer/convince naysayers. The apologists that I know of speak, debate, write, etc. with both in mind.

What kind of "industry" do the "new" atheists have?

Depends on which one. Some don't have any industry, but merely are following a passion of being anti-fundamentalist. ... in particularly the anti-scientific attitude of the fundamentalist. I am sure some want to sell books.

When it comes to the 'industry' arguments, people like Josh McDowel, and Lee Strobel make it an industry. There are a lot more Christian Apologists out there whose main purpose is fleecing the money from the faithful than there are 'new' atheists who are doing the same. They might be making money, but I think there is more of a passion to counter act the less than logical thinking on the part of the fundamentalist for a number of them. That does not make them any less .. hum.. how should I put it.. annoying in their presentation??? Some of them I think have too big a chip on their shoulder, which leads me to conclude their arguments are not for profit motive.

[annesman]

Hello all. I am one who likes to discuss religion and am looking for a hobby so this site seemed like a good fit. I am a believer and am respectful of others beliefs or lack thereof. I am an engineer and am married with five children. I grew up in upstate new York, went to college at BYU in Utah then joined the Navy. I am now working as a mechanical engineer in the nuclear industry. That's me in a nutshell.

[Haven]

Hello all. I am one who likes to discuss religion and am looking for a hobby so this site seemed like a good fit. I am a believer and am respectful of others beliefs or lack thereof. I am an engineer and am married with five children. I grew up in upstate new York, went to college at BYU in Utah then joined the Navy. I am now working as a mechanical engineer in the nuclear industry. That's me in a nutshell.

Welcome! Hope you find this place to your liking.

-Haven