Why are religious fanatics often so blatantly dishonest?

[Divine Insight]

I have noticed that people who argue passionately for religious theologies are often quite dishonest in their tactics to the point of purposefully misrepresenting what other people say to such an extreme degree that it really can't be seen as anything short of outright lying.

What do you think is the reason for this?

Do you think that dishonest people are somehow attracted to religious fanaticism for some strange reason?

Or do you think that religions simply cause people to go into such depths of denial that they can't even see that they are dishonestly distorting the truth around them to support their denial?

Note: Some people may argue that some atheists are also dishonest in debates. But that's a moot point. Religious people are supposed to be honest! If an atheist is dishonest where is there any surprise in that?

[Ooberman]

I'm watching the Son of God, a movie about Jesus, and even in this movie they can't stop lying.

Mary is depicted as a woman in her 20's, when she gets pregnant.

Most experts think Mary was about 12-13 when Joseph raped her.

[bluethread]

I'm watching the Son of God, a movie about Jesus, and even in this movie they can't stop lying.

Mary is depicted as a woman in her 20's, when she gets pregnant.

Most experts think Mary was about 12-13 when Joseph raped her.

Please verify this claim or retract it. Movie makers do take liberties, and I do not see them as authoritative. However, your statement is no more accurate. The truth is that we do not know how old Myraim was and there is no indication that I know of that rape was involved.

[Ooberman]

I'm watching the Son of God, a movie about Jesus, and even in this movie they can't stop lying.

Mary is depicted as a woman in her 20's, when she gets pregnant.

Most experts think Mary was about 12-13 when Joseph raped her.

Please verify this claim or retract it. Movie makers do take liberties, and I do not see them as authoritative. However, your statement is no more accurate. The truth is that we do not know how old Myraim was and there is no indication that I know of that rape was involved.

Well, if she was 12-13 years old, then she was raped. The might have called it Love back then, but I'm an Enlightened Man. Just like I don't need to call slavery "indentured servitude" to make it seem better, I don't need to call the marriage to a young child "Love".

For all we know, Joseph raped her to invoke the law that forces him to marry her.

Knowing how Jesus turned out, I wouldn't be surprised if she raised him to turn to an imaginary Father for comfort - maybe because she resented Joseph.

Who knows.


BTW, finished watching the "Son of God" mini series. Very well done. Great job of telling the Sunday school story.

[A Troubled Man]

[Replying to post 1 by Divine Insight]

Religious fanatics are not really dishonest because they have mental disorders and have lost touch with reality. Reason and logic don't exist for them in the same capacity as the rest of us. The bubble they create for themselves to live in is their reason and logic. Their hallucinations and voices in their heads are very real to them and they will say and do anything to keep their bubble intact, not even realizing or acknowledging they are being dishonest as a result.

In that respect, we need not get upset, angry or offended by what they say considering they know not what they say.

[McCulloch]

Most experts think Mary was about 12-13 when Joseph raped her.

Please cite some of these experts.

In keeping with Jewish custom, the betrothal would have taken place when she was around 12, and the birth of Jesus about a year later.[4]

The reference is to Allison, Dale C., Matthew: A Shorter Commentary, p.12 Continuum International Publishing Group, 2004 ISBN 0-567-08249-0

Dale C. Allison Jr. is Errett M. Grable Professor of New Testament Exegesis and Early Christianity, Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, and is the author of The Intertextual Jesus and, with the late W.D. Davies, the ICC volumes on Matthew. W. D. Davies was Emeritus Ivey Professor of Advanced Studies and Research in Christian Origins at Duke University. He was Professor Emeritus at Union Theological Seminary, and Texas Christian University. He was the author of many books, including Paul and Rabbinic Judaism and Jewish and Pauline Studies.

[Ooberman]

I have noticed that people who argue passionately for religious theologies are often quite dishonest in their tactics to the point of purposefully misrepresenting what other people say to such an extreme degree that it really can't be seen as anything short of outright lying.

What do you think is the reason for this?

Do you think that dishonest people are somehow attracted to religious fanaticism for some strange reason?

Or do you think that religions simply cause people to go into such depths of denial that they can't even see that they are dishonestly distorting the truth around them to support their denial?

Note: Some people may argue that some atheists are also dishonest in debates. But that's a moot point. Religious people are supposed to be honest! If an atheist is dishonest where is there any surprise in that?

It's certainly not just the religious that lie. I'd include the scumbags who peddle Homeopathy and other such pseudoscience.


The problem is that there are people who place their feeling of Belief, and the lure of attention/money, above science and Truth.