1st Church of Jesus Christ, Atheist

[Danmark]

After realizing that most churches in America only give 1% of their budget for benevolence, and almost all the rest for their buildings and to pay personnel, I've decided it is more appropriate to call their buildings 'Club Houses' than 'Churches.'

So why not start our own church? America’s tax laws are designed to favor non-profit and charitable institutions which presumably benefit the community. These club houses don't really benefit the community. They just provide a place for people to hang out and falsely believe they are doing something good when they are really just spending the money on themselves. So why can't we do the same and avoid paying property taxes and tax on [strike]revenues[/strike] donations?

Fitness and pleasure is going to be at the heart of my church, so we'll have a pool, spa, and exercise equipment. Plenty of wine for communion. At first, I think I'll just donate my speaking fees until it gets up and running. I've already got my Universal Life Church 'Credentials of Ministry' and my parking pass. So I think we're set.
I've just discovered there's at least one other DCR member in my community, which apparently is an Atheist Vortex, so we've got an inchoate planning committee.
If you want to send donations, pm me for my address.

[Danmark]

I'm quasi serious about this. Given how little churches actually do for their communities this tax dodge is a legal scam. Why shouldn't others get in on it?

From About.com:
'The buildings of private schools and universities, for example, are exempt from property taxes. Donations to charities like the Red Cross are tax deductible. Organizations which engage in medical or scientific research can take advantage of favorable tax laws. Environmental groups can raise tax-free funds by selling books.

Churches, however, tend to benefit the most from the various tax exemptions available, in particular because they qualify for many of them automatically, whereas non-religious groups have to go through a more complicated application and approval process. Non-religious groups also have to be more accountable for where their money goes, while churches, in order to avoid possibly excessive entanglements between church and state, do not have to submit financial disclosure statements.

Tax benefits for religious organizations fall into three general categories: tax-free donations, tax-free land and tax-free commercial enterprises. The first two are much easier to defend and arguments against permitting them are much weaker. The latter, however, often creates problems.'

We will be very careful about 'the latter.'

[Peter]

Have you looked into how difficult it might be to be legally designated as a church? Instead of inventing new irrational things to believe maybe it would be easier to just resurrect an old religion.

Actually, there are so many mom & pop storefront 'christian churches' around here it's hard to swing a dead cat without hitting one. Just combine a christian church with a gym. Heck maybe it's already been done somewhere.

Anyway, good luck. Let us know how it goes.

ps - now you've got me thinking about all kinds of possibilities. The church of christian car care, the christian self help brewery, the prophet and plumber christian center... it's endless

[Danmark]

Have you looked into how difficult it might be to be legally designated as a church? Instead of inventing new irrational things to believe maybe it would be easier to just resurrect an old religion.

Actually, there are so many mom & pop storefront 'christian churches' around here it's hard to swing a dead cat without hitting one. Just combine a christian church with a gym. Heck maybe it's already been done somewhere.

Anyway, good luck. Let us know how it goes.

ps - now you've got me thinking about all kinds of possibilities. The church of christian car care, the christian self help brewery, the prophet and plumber christian center... it's endless

I don't think our church would limit our doctrines to 'new irrational things to believe.' We would try our best to be tolerant of rational thought as well.

[Hatuey]

[Replying to post 1 by Danmark]

Although the idea has much appeal, I'd be concerned about corruption. Kenneth Copeland style and such. The upside in the "church experience" is the inclusivity and community--they do rally; the downside is dealing with all the ridiculousness and corruption. (Perhaps they go hand in hand?)

[Peter]

Have you looked into how difficult it might be to be legally designated as a church? Instead of inventing new irrational things to believe maybe it would be easier to just resurrect an old religion.

Actually, there are so many mom & pop storefront 'christian churches' around here it's hard to swing a dead cat without hitting one. Just combine a christian church with a gym. Heck maybe it's already been done somewhere.

Anyway, good luck. Let us know how it goes.

ps - now you've got me thinking about all kinds of possibilities. The church of christian car care, the christian self help brewery, the prophet and plumber christian center... it's endless

I don't think our church would limit our doctrines to 'new irrational things to believe.' We would try our best to be tolerant of rational thought as well.

OK, but it's not nearly as much fun.

[Mr. LongView]

I often think about creating the sixth Baptist church of Jesus Christ, just to stay ahead of the razors...

[Ooberman]

[Replying to post 2 by Danmark]

Considering how pastors are able to abuse the tax code, I'd like to join up.

Of course, that wouldn't be my primary reason to joining. I'd want to help people, mostly by offering them advice over the internet on Debating Religion forums.

[Wissing]

most churches in America only give 1% of their budget for benevolence, and almost all the rest for their buildings and to pay personnel

Fact check. Please provide a citation, as well as a definition of "benevolence". Your statement may not be intentionally fraudulent, but it could be misleading in some unintentional way. I would prefer to be able to verify this information for myself, because it doesn't match my personal experience.

Thanks!

[Danmark]

most churches in America only give 1% of their budget for benevolence, and almost all the rest for their buildings and to pay personnel

Fact check. Please provide a citation, as well as a definition of "benevolence". Your statement may not be intentionally fraudulent, but it could be misleading in some unintentional way. I would prefer to be able to verify this information for myself, because it doesn't match my personal experience.

Thanks!

I had posted citations recently, tho' on another subtopic.
https://www.eccu.org/resources/advisory ... yreports20

Are churches spending more on themselves than on the needs of those outside the church?
According to a new report they are, with churches keeping a larger share of their tithe-generated income for their own in-house needs.
In a report, titled “The State of Church Giving Through 2009,� released Friday by Empty Tomb inc., a Christian service and research organization, authors found that “benevolences� – or funds used for giving outside the church including giving to charities and seminary training – hit new lows compared to their first report in 1968.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/tithi ... ppy-58237/

http://holysoup.com/2013/08/06/the-shoc ... h-budgets/

http://www.beliefnet.com/Love-Family/Ch ... Funds.aspx#

"Benevolence" is a term the churches and their organizing bodies use for giving to help the poor as opposed to services and programs within the church.

My take on all this is that the average church spends virtually all its income on the general fund, simply to run the church, keep the buildings maintained, service the debt an pay salaries to staff. Virtually nothing goes outside the church to aid the poor.

This is why I liken the average church to a club or club house.

What I do not have, but think would be interesting, would be statistics comparing the percentage of their budgets devoted to assisting the poor, compared to the budgets of secular groups such as Kiwanis, Lions Club, Rotary and so forth.