We are saved by works and not by faith alone.

[To Him Who Overcomes]

Martin Luther and his saved by faith alone message has deceived most of the known world. It is another gospel. Eph 2:8-9 and Romans 4:1-6 are referring to "not of the works" of the Mosaic Law or dead works from self. Most christian's are deceived into believing that works do not matter to God. They say that works are only a fruit of one's faith in God; therefore, works are optional. The truth is that works of faith are the exact same thing as faith and they are necessary for justification.

[HumbleDisciple]

[Replying to post 106 by Cewakiyelo]

It was not that Moses disbelieved in Jesus or God, but instead that Moses disbelieved the effect of a commandment.

Scripture disagrees with you. Scripture says..
Quote:
12 Then the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not believe Me

The Lord did not say because you did not believe my command or my word.

You have made a false claim against what I declared. You say that I said it was not that Moses disbelieved God. But that is not what I said. I said that it was not that Moses disbelieved *IN* God. Those are TWO HUGELY different declarations. You have misinterpreted what I spoke, and as a result misunderstood that your response is not valid, nor the scripture that you cited to refute me.

The scripture you cited was "Because you did not believe Me." But the scripture does *NOT* state "Because you did not believe *IN* Me."

Therefore, Moses broke a specific commandment because he did not believe the specific commandment. That *DOES NOT* mean that Moses stopped believing in God *altogether*. If that was the case, then Moses would not be saved, and would not have gone to heaven. And that certainly is not true. Moses most certainly went to heaven.

See, once again, you are grasping at straws to declare your doctrines. You are desperately searching for ways in which you can find scripture that proves works-based salvation.

Why not just cite a scripture that *actually states* "You are saved, in part, by your works."?

Answer the question.

It is because you do not have such scripture which declares such doctrine. It simply does not exist. This is why you spend all of your time searching *other* scriptures trying to convince yourself and others that they somehow allude to works based salvation. You deceive yourself when you do this. You will be saved regardless, but it will hinder your fruit. For there are many men who come to you in your life who might have believed in Jesus if you had not made your works-based salvation a requirement unto them. So you miss out on opportunities to be the one who claims the reward.

Where is your citation that disbelief in Jesus can cost you your salvation???

John 12:44-48
Matthew 10:32-33
Luke 10:16

You claim belief in Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ said if you hear and do those things the gates are open to you. If you hear and do not do you can count on being swept away. You claim that your personal testimony declares otherwise.

Please cite the scripture which says "If you hear and do not do his commands, you shall enter into Hell". You say it as if it is fact. But you have not cited the scripture which makes that declaration.

And it is not that I claim that my personal testimony declares otherwise. It is that the scripture claims that my personal testimony declares otherwise. For 1 Corinthians 12:3 bears witness to my testimony. If my testimony did not prove my salvation because I continue to sin willfully in the flesh yet unwillfully in the spirit (nonetheless the actions occur)...then that proves 1 Corinthians 12:3 is false. It does not prove my testimony false. It proves that 1 Corinthians 12:3 is false.

I must contend that the only reason you desire to say it proves my testimony false...is because your heart has already concluded and desired that it must be false otherwise it proves your beliefs false. So then, by your beliefs you have judged me, and not by an objective standard of proof at all.

That you are a sinner today and are seemingly content to remain that way. Your declaration does not prove 1 Corinthians 12:3 which has nothing to do with your willingness to remain in sin.

I do not willingly remain in sin. And I am not content to remain this way. I ask God to change me every single day, but all of us are sinners until the day we die. Just because I willingly choose to sin does not mean I willingly remain in sin. If I could have such desires and temptations removed, I would gladly give them up. I desire for them to be gone. But they are still there, and they still tempt me, and therefore I still willingly choose to sin inspite of it not being my spiritual will.

The entire point for why I bring this up is to show how men cannot discern who is or is not saved based on whether they continue in sin or not. All men continue in sin every single day. None are immune to that fact. I am honest enough to admit it about myself. Are you honest enough to admit it about yourself? For if you were, then you would have to abandon your doctrines in order to believe you were saved. For your doctrines would condemn yourself, no? Is this not the difference between the Pharisee and the publican in Luke 18? Is this not the difference between the wicked servant the one who was sent free in Matthew 18 and Matthew 25?

And yet God is gracious enough not to send you to Hell, but to save you because you believe in His Son Jesus. But He will require of you all that you owe, namely...the testing of the works which give rewards at the Bema Seat.

It proves only that your remain in your sin and are unwilling to do what your Lord Jesus Christ has commanded of you.

And yet still saved inspite of my wretched condition! Absolutely! Praise be to God for His abundant Grace!

If one believes in Jesus as Lord would they not then do as they are commanded to do, or at the very least make every attempt to fulfill those commands?

No. If they LOVE Jesus as Lord then they will do as they are commanded. And to whatever measure they fail to obey, that is the same measure by which they fail to love Him. But should they fail to love Him, He will not fail to love them, and they shall still be saved. And where they fail to love Him does not mean that they totally and utterly fail to love Him at all. It only means they failed in that particular measure. The lack of obedience shows a lack of love. The lack of obedience does not show the lack of belief. And lack does not mean a total absence thereof.

The Spirit leads those whom spread the Word of God to understand that we are to step away from sin. Not to remain sinful.

And nothing that I have declared, neither my actions nor my doctrinal beliefs, opposes this view. So please do not make the assumption that anything I have said is somehow in contradiction to this point. So to make it abundantly clear: I accept full responsibility that every time I sin it is by my own free will and choice, and yet at the same time I desire not to, for it is not my spiritual will. It is my ultimate will, though I fail to achieve it, that I step away from sin and to follow God.

The Spirit does not give us more than we can bear. Jesus is the example that man can achieve if he believes. If he believes he obeys. When we say we can't be anything but sinners we have given into sin.

So then do you declare that you yourself sin no more? (Please save the speech about how we all sin from time to time...that is not what I am asking). Yes or No? Do you declare that you do not sin every single day of your life? And are you willing to be tested thereof to see if it can be shown to be false?

Again, belief in God requires action, requires work.

Again, please cite the scripture which declares this requirement. Simply stating it as a truthful fact does not make it a truthful fact. Please do not cite scriptures that can support such an unproven doctrine should one *already believe that doctrine*. I am not asking you to cite scriptures which can support it. I am asking you to cite scriptures which *actually declare it*. If you cannot cite them, then I am asking you to admit that you cannot cite them, for that is the honest thing to do. I hold the opposite belief: That belief in God, on the contrary, requires that the heart really truly believe...and nothing more. And to "endure until the end" means to believe in Jesus *INSPITE* of the doctrines of men like yours. For if I were to believe your doctrine, then there is no chance for my salvation. For I cannot keep myself from sinning, even while I believe in Jesus. Yet I am not in bondage to it, for I openly denounce it as a shame. Is this not the difference between the Pharisee and the Publican on the steps of the Temple? It is the very difference.

But belief in God, in the Spirit of God, in all that Jesus spoke, requires us to follow the instructions.

Please stop spamming your opinion without substantiating it with scripture which explicitly declares that doctrine. You have yet to cite any scripture that states "Belief in God requires obedience" and you have yet to cite any scripture that states "If a man does not obey God, then it means he does not have true belief in God."

You spoke of God having Faith in us. Do you not then realize that it is His faith in us to be able to accomplish all that He asks that causes Him to give such commands?

He is able. I am not able. Should He keep me from sin, I gladly receive it. But He uses me as a vessel, an example, to show that your doctrines cannot be true. For if your doctrines are true, then it would be impossible for me to say that Jesus is my God and Savior who rose from the dead. Yet I say it willingly, and it is my desire to believe it. But your doctrines teach that if a man does not obey God, then He cannot say such a thing. It is either that or you deny the truth of 1 Corinthians 12:3.

Let me make this abundantly clear:

If I should remain a sinner to the end of my days, according to all that I have spoken so far, choosing of my own free will to sin out of failure to temptation, but willfully desiring in the spirit that such sin be taken away that I sin no more...nonetheless in my actions I fail, but I believe in Jesus as my God and Savior who rose from the dead...

Shall I be saved?

Answer: Yes or No.

For your answer determines what measure of a man you are, and what measure of the understanding of Grace that you have.

I forgive you for your judgments, whatever way they may be. I, a petty publican, shall not judge you, the Pharisee. For I believe even Pharisees who believe in Jesus are saved. But you do not believe that publicans who believe in Jesus are saved. And it will cost you the rewards of your works.

[Cewakiyelo]

[Replying to HumbleDisciple]

Where is your citation that disbelief in Jesus can cost you your salvation???

John 12:44-48
Matthew 10:32-33
Luke 10:16

You seem to be so focused on the ink on the page that you fail to see the story or hear the message.

John 12:44 Then Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me. 45 And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me. 46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.�

In these verses we see Jesus speaking by the Spirit. Just as David speaking by the Spirit said, "The LORD said to my Lord...." That is to say that what David spoke were not his words. He was not the author of those words. The Spirit of God was the author of those words and David was the vessel through which the Spirit utilized as a mouthpiece to convey those words. Jesus in these verses is being utilized by the Holy Spirit to convey the Message. We see the Spirit say that whoever believes in Him believes not in Him but the One whom sent Him, that being God. We can see that the Spirit is sent. We see this at the baptism event of Jesus. The Spirit is sent out of heaven down to Jesus. Jesus then follows the Spirit with the Spirit leading him. Jesus did not get sent anywhere. He is being led around. God sent the Spirit. You know that Spirit whom sits above all others and no tolerance of speaking against Him shall be tolerated. The one you believe is subservient to Jesus. The Spirit of God is the Son of God and it is why the Spirit is on that highest pedestal. He is the one that God sends forth to do what God has sent Him to do. The Spirit does nothing that God has not told him to do or say. The Spirit speaks with full authority of God, on God's behalf. The Spirit of God is God's Word. It is the Word of God that shall judge mankind. Denial of the Spirit, not accepting the Spirit, is what can cause us to loose our salvation. ALL other sin can be forgiven.

In v46 we see that the Spirit comes as a light into the world. We see that light present Himself at the transfiguration event. The Spirit steps forward revealing Himself. The Spirit was seen as a brightness that glowed like the light of the sun. Then God spoke the same words that Jesus heard at his baptism so that Peter, John, and James heard them. God said "This is My beloved Son". God never spoke those words when Jesus stood alone and not glowing. God only said those words when the Spirit was present. Once when the Spirit was descending, being sent out from God and heaven to Jesus and then when revealing Himself as light.

Matthew 10:32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.

Here again we have verses that back up the passage about the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Those that accept the Holy Spirit openly the Spirit speaks well to God of them. Those that do not accept the Spirit, those that spurn, reject, or otherwise blaspheme the Spirit will be denied by the Spirit before God.

Luke 10:15 And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades.[d] 16 He who hears you hears Me, he who rejects you rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.�

Again the same thing. Rejection of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God that the Holy Spirit delivers and teaches is not looked well upon by God.

The one that is sent by God descends from heaven and does the Work of God, that is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the One Teacher, is the Christ, performs the healing and resurrecting. It is the Spirit that is the Right Hand of God. It is the Spirit that wields the Power of God. It is the Spirit that was there in the beginning with God. Jesus is not sent anywhere. He follows the Spirit. The Spirit never sends Jesus away nor does the Spirit depart from Jesus. When we see the lips of Jesus move we should hear the Spirit of God speaking through Jesus. But you are only hearing Jesus. Therefore you ascribe all things to Jesus. It causes you to place Jesus above the Spirit which could be detrimental to your longevity.

You are beating your head against the Holy Spirit. How can we expect to learn from the Spirit or be braced up by the Spirit if we do not accept the Spirit being the one that we need in our life? When we place Jesus above Him we are saying we have no need for the Spirit. We are showing God that we have know need for the Helper that He sends. Furthermore, we are dishonoring the sacrifice of Jesus because it was his dedication that allowed for the Spirit to be given to all that would believe. "Nah Jesus, you may have died for us to receive the Holy Spirit but we don't have a need for Him. You will drag us into heaven on the tail of your robes won't you?" I would not count on that. Doing so and we are more likely to hear "Depart from me I never knew you"

[HumbleDisciple]

[Replying to post 112 by Cewakiyelo]

John 12:44 Then Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me. 45 And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me. 46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.�


In these verses we see Jesus speaking by the Spirit.

+Yadda Yadda (the rest of your paragraph)

We do? I did a good searching in those scriptures and I don't see the word "Spirit" a single time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all big on the Holy Spirit. I do not wish to demean Him at all. He is 1 of the 3 persons of the Trinity after all. He is definitely Mighty. He is definitely God. He is definitely worthy of worship and all respect. And I do not contend any of those points, or any points like that....But...

You simply are just making up a story and saying I should believe it. You aren't actually posting any scripture that declares any of the things you are declaring. You deny that John 1:1-20 means what it says. You deny that Jesus is the Word of God. You deny that Jesus has all authority and all power above all things in creation. You make your beliefs sound as if the Holy Spirit is The Father, with no unique differences, and thus not a trinity but a di-une God.

And I'll be honest...most of it isn't worthy of responding to. It just doesn't have any support. Believe whatever you like, I guess...but I am not going to waste my time arguing about the details of your beliefs when you have nothing by which to prove them. Keep it simple:

If you want to declare that the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit created Jesus, then don't create an argument with supporting scriptures for it. Just cite the scripture that actually says it.

If you want to declare that the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is greater than Jesus, then don't create an argument with supporting scriptures for it. Just cite the scripture that actually says it.

And if you cannot cite scripture that actually says it, then just say that you cannot cite scripture that actually says it.

That's all you need to do, end of story. Please stop derailing the thread by adding lavish unproven words. This thread is not even about the topic of the roles of the Trinity.

[HumbleDisciple]

[Replying to post 112 by Cewakiyelo]

John 12:44 Then Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me. 45 And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me. 46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.�


In these verses we see Jesus speaking by the Spirit.

+Yadda Yadda (the rest of your paragraph)

We do? I did a good searching in those scriptures and I don't see the word "Spirit" a single time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all big on the Holy Spirit. I do not wish to demean Him at all. He is 1 of the 3 persons of the Trinity after all. He is definitely Mighty. He is definitely God. He is definitely worthy of worship and all respect. And I do not contend any of those points, or any points like that....But...

You simply are just making up a story and saying I should believe it. You aren't actually posting any scripture that declares any of the things you are declaring. You deny that John 1:1-20 means what it says. You deny that Jesus is the Word of God. You deny that Jesus has all authority and all power above all things in creation. You make your beliefs sound as if the Holy Spirit is The Father, with no unique differences, and thus not a trinity but a di-une God.

And I'll be honest...most of it isn't worthy of responding to. It just doesn't have any support. Believe whatever you like, I guess...but I am not going to waste my time arguing about the details of your beliefs when you have nothing by which to prove them. Keep it simple:

If you want to declare that the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit created Jesus, then don't create an argument with supporting scriptures for it. Just cite the scripture that actually says it.

If you want to declare that the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is greater than Jesus, then don't create an argument with supporting scriptures for it. Just cite the scripture that actually says it.

And if you cannot cite scripture that actually says it, then just say that you cannot cite scripture that actually says it.

That's all you need to do, end of story. Please stop derailing the thread by adding lavish unproven words. This thread is not even about the topic of the roles of the Trinity.

[Cewakiyelo]

[Replying to post 111 by HumbleDisciple]

The scripture you cited was "Because you did not believe Me." But the scripture does *NOT* state "Because you did not believe *IN* Me."

Therefore, Moses broke a specific commandment because he did not believe the specific commandment. That *DOES NOT* mean that Moses stopped believing in God *altogether*. If that was the case, then Moses would not be saved, and would not have gone to heaven. And that certainly is not true. Moses most certainly went to heaven.

Where exactly does it say Moses was saved and that he will be in heaven???

He may have but there is no certainty about it. Only God knows.


When God tells Moses to speak to the rock and Moses instead strikes the rock with his staff he is doubting God's Word. When he did that he was saying "God, I don't think You know what you are talking about. You don't really want me to talk to the rock. You are surely mistaken. I know better than you so I will do it the right way."

If one does not believe the Word of God, the Holy Spirit and rejects the Spirit they also reject the one that sent the Spirit. The Spirit tells Moses to speak and Moses strikes instead. He rejected the Word of God which is sent by God thus he rejected God. He did not believe God. He did not have faith in God that God knew better than he did. The belief of faith requires action that testifies to that belief. Belief and obedience today is faith. Lack of obedience and doubt tomorrow is loss of faith.

[Cewakiyelo]

[Replying to post 110 by Cewakiyelo]

A bit of a follow up on the 1 Corinthians 3:9-17...

Matthew 13:12 Anyone who already has something will get more, and he will have plenty. But he who does not have anything, even the little that he has will be taken away from him.

Where we see that the bricks spoken of in 1 Corinthians 3:9-17 are the work of a person and that work put to the fire to test the quality of the work produced that which is left in the persons hand is how reward is given out. Great reward for great bricks. Less for lesser quality bricks of work. Those bricks out of straw yield only ash in the hand. So they do not receive other reward beyond everlasting life. Everlasting life is the only reward. In Matthew 13:12 we see that those that have nothing in their hand not only no reward they also loose what little they have. All that they would have to loose is everlasting life. Even that is taken from them that do not have works. It may even be that only ash in the hand meet this fate as well.

[HumbleDisciple]

[Replying to post 115 by Cewakiyelo]

Please respect the following statements:

And I'll be honest...most of it isn't worthy of responding to. It just doesn't have any support. Believe whatever you like, I guess...but I am not going to waste my time arguing about the details of your beliefs when you have nothing by which to prove them. Keep it simple:

If you want to declare that the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit created Jesus, then don't create an argument with supporting scriptures for it. Just cite the scripture that actually says it.

If you want to declare that the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is greater than Jesus, then don't create an argument with supporting scriptures for it. Just cite the scripture that actually says it.

And if you cannot cite scripture that actually says it, then just say that you cannot cite scripture that actually says it.

That's all you need to do, end of story. Please stop derailing the thread by adding lavish unproven words. This thread is not even about the topic of the roles of the Trinity.

Until you do...I am not going to answer any of your questions towards me. For it shows that you do not have the respect to answer my questions towards you.

[Cewakiyelo]

[Replying to post 115 by Cewakiyelo]

Please respect the following statements:

And I'll be honest...most of it isn't worthy of responding to. It just doesn't have any support. Believe whatever you like, I guess...but I am not going to waste my time arguing about the details of your beliefs when you have nothing by which to prove them. Keep it simple:

If you want to declare that the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit created Jesus, then don't create an argument with supporting scriptures for it. Just cite the scripture that actually says it.

If you want to declare that the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is greater than Jesus, then don't create an argument with supporting scriptures for it. Just cite the scripture that actually says it.

And if you cannot cite scripture that actually says it, then just say that you cannot cite scripture that actually says it.

That's all you need to do, end of story. Please stop derailing the thread by adding lavish unproven words. This thread is not even about the topic of the roles of the Trinity.

Until you do...I am not going to answer any of your questions towards me. For it shows that you do not have the respect to answer my questions towards you.

If you want to declare that the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit created Jesus, then don't create an argument with supporting scriptures for it. Just cite the scripture that actually says it.

Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.

That makes the Holy Spirit the Lord of Jesus. Jesus is a child of the Holy Spirit.

I have said that it is the Spirit that is sent from heaven, sent from God and that Jesus follows the Holy Spirit. Not the other way around.

Matthew 3:16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

There we see that the Spirit is sent to Jesus.

Matthew 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

Here we see that it is the Spirit that does the leading of Jesus. It is not Jesus that leads or commands the Spirit.

If you want to declare that the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is greater than Jesus, then don't create an argument with supporting scriptures for it. Just cite the scripture that actually says it.

Matthew 12:31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

The Holy Spirit sits above Jesus. He is held with higher regard than the Son of Man, Jesus. If Jesus was above the Spirit it would be the Son of Man that could not be blasphemed. The hierarchy would have the Son of God holding the highest position. It would be His Son that goes forth to do the Father's will as the Father desires it to be done. It would be the Son that speaks with full authority on behalf of God. The scriptures portray the Holy Spirit fulfilling that role.

I have also stated that the Holy Spirit dwelled within Jesus, and or works in the Holy Spirit as the Holy Spirit does the same for all that walk with the Spirit.

Luke 10:At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to d

o.

Jesus full of joy through the Holy Spirit is joy given by the Holy Spirit. The spirit is with Jesus at that moment. The Spirit never departed Jesus and Jesus never stopped following the Spirit. If you would like to show otherwise pleas do.

[HumbleDisciple]

[Replying to post 118 by Cewakiyelo]

Please stop derailing the emphasis of my point. Like I said, I am not going to respond to anything you say until you answer me:

Please cite the scripture which declares that salvation requires works and obediences in addition to believe in Jesus.

Please do not cite scriptures which can be interpreted or used to support said doctrine.

Please cite the scriptures that *actually declare it*.

If you cannot cite such scriptures, then please formally acknowledge that you do not have such scriptures.

[Cewakiyelo]

[Replying to post 118 by Cewakiyelo]

Please stop derailing the emphasis of my point. Like I said, I am not going to respond to anything you say until you answer me:

Please cite the scripture which declares that salvation requires works and obediences in addition to believe in Jesus.

Please do not cite scriptures which can be interpreted or used to support said doctrine.

Please cite the scriptures that *actually declare it*.

If you cannot cite such scriptures, then please formally acknowledge that you do not have such scriptures.

Please cite the scripture which declares that salvation requires works and obediences in addition to believe in Jesus.

Ephesians 5:5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

Seems straight forward, those of filth have no inheritance, only destruction.

James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,� but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.� Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.� And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Faith without work is dead. NO work to show is the indication that the person has no faith but only lip service.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

God has set aside good works for us to do. When we do not do them we are not walking with God toward salvation. We are walking away from God and salvation. Good works that God has prepared beforehand. We are to walk in that good work. We are to do that good work that he has set aside for us.

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Not all shall enter the kingdom of heaven. It is a place for those that do the will of the Father.

Are we forgiven of Sin??? Well yes and no...
When we repent, when we believe that we need God in our Life, and He sees and hears our sincerity He sends us His gift. That Gift is the Holy Spirit. Prior to receiving the Holy Spirit we have the stain of sin standing with us. When we receive the Holy Spirit that sin is removed. That is to say that all the sin we had committed to that point is wiped clean. The transgressions of our past shall not weigh against us. We are absolved of those sins. HOWEVER, that does not mean we are forgiven of future sins. It does not mean that tomorrow we can act the way we were yesterday before we had the Spirit. We are forgiven because we, before receiving the Spirit, had an excuse. That excuse is that we did not have the Spirit, the Living Water of God, flowing in us. But once we receive the Holy Spirit that excuse is no longer valid. Prior we did not have instruction from God. After we have that instruction, the lessons being administered by the Holy Spirit. Before we did not have work to do for God because we did not know God. Any work that we did before amounted to nothing. It did not yield any gifts to us from God. However, when we receive the Spirit we are then given work. That work is for God and from God. When we comply and do that work we are showing our faith in Him that gave us that work. When we do not do the work we show that we do not believe him Him. Those that receive the Holy Spirit are not measured by what they did before, what sins came before, they are measured by what the do after receiving the Spirit. It is those sins that come after receiving the Holy Spirit that can cause a person to forfeit the gift of life. Each sin a step away from God and His Gift. Enough steps taken and when one turns around they will no longer be able to see God or that gift any longer.

I made mention that the Spirit is the Living Water of God. I guess you need that script also as these things seem not yet written in your heart.

John 4:9 Then the woman of Samaria said to Him, “How is it that You, being a Jew, ask a drink from me, a Samaritan woman?� For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans. 10 Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.� 11 The woman said to Him, “Sir, You have nothing to draw with, and the well is deep. Where then do You get that living water? 12 Are You greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank from it himself, as well as his sons and his livestock?� 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.�

He we see the Living Water is given to those that ask and the Living Water springs up into everlasting life. Everlasting life is salvation.

John 7:37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.[/b]� 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Here scripture plainly tells us that the Holy Spirit is the Living Water(John 7:38-39), that Living Water springs up to everlasting life(John 4:14). It also tells us that it is the glorification of Jesus that gives us that promise of receiving the Holy Spirit. Before Jesus the Spirit came to very few. After Jesus the Spirit comes to all that believe.

[Replying to post 88 by Cewakiyelo]It is true that the Holy Spirit can be poured out upon all flesh (as is clear in relevation of the apocalypse). But it is not true that such a pouring causes salvation to an individual.

The only thing denial of the Holy Spirit yields is death.