Don't shatter my faith bro!

[DanieltheDragon]

Disclaimer:

Not really sure where this belongs science or apologetics as there is elements of both involved but here we go anyways.

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Given the premise that evolution exists. How does that affect your beliefs?


To clarify its fine if you don't believe in evolution that is not the purpose of the thread. The purpose of the thread is that given a premise how would it impact your beliefs if it were true. This is not to discuss the validity of evolution but to discuss how evolution impacts your beliefs. Would it negate them? would it do nothing to them? or would it booster them?

[Elijah John]

Disclaimer:

Not really sure where this belongs science or apologetics as there is elements of both involved but here we go anyways.

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Given the premise that evolution exists. How does that affect your beliefs?


To clarify its fine if you don't believe in evolution that is not the purpose of the thread. The purpose of the thread is that given a premise how would it impact your beliefs if it were true. This is not to discuss the validity of evolution but to discuss how evolution impacts your beliefs. Would it negate them? would it do nothing to them? or would it booster them?

As a non-Literalist, it does nothing to shatter my faith in a good, Creator God. I believe Evolution is one of the tools the Creator used to bring about existence. The Roman Catholic Church believes this too, and teaches now that science is compatible with faith.

Science answers many of the "how" questions. Faith the "why" questions.

[Divine Insight]

I'm very glad you asked this question, and I'm also glad for Elijah John's response.

I am often accused at being a "Biblical Literalist" because I reject apologies that require such extreme non-literal interpretations of the Bible they they argue for extreme non-biblical concepts.

However, when I was a Christian I was an extreme "non-literalist" myself. Like Elijah John I never had a problem with evolution being in conflict with the Bible. When the Bible says that God created Adam from the dust of the earth, I have no problem accepting that as a metaphor to simply mean that Adam was created from the material world and if God used evolution to create Adam that was not a problem for me.

I do confess however, in hindsight I was probably too accepting of the idea that Adam was put into a deep sleep and Eve was then created from his rib. I mean, even as a metaphor that idea seems to depart quite a bit form the idea of man and woman being created together via evolution.

But originally, I can say that as a Christian the idea of evolution did not bother me in the least. I also didn't have a problem with an "Old Earth". Like many modern Christians I didn't take the 6 days of creation to be literally 6 earth days.

So when I was a Christian evolution was not a problem for me in terms of religion. I was able to accept both evolution and the religion.

My conclusions that the Bible is absurd came much later from the Bible alone. Even as I continued to accept things as "metaphors" the metaphors themselves became absurd, IMHO. This is why I am not impressed by those who claim that we need to take a non-literal approach to the Bible. Even that approach eventually breaks down and becomes impossible unless a person is prepared to accept some truly absurd stuff.

In fact, if may be so bold to go back to Elijah John, he's been posting on these forums for quite some time and makes no secret that he does not accept many things in the Bible like the virgin birth of Jesus, or that Jesus is the divine only begotten son of God, etc.

Yet ironically he still supports the idea that Jesus is some sort of "prophet". I confess that I can't understand how someone can reject so much of a doctrine and still cling to the idea that it still holds true at some deeper level.

I know that when I was a Christian I used to try to cherry pick my way through the Bible too even arguing with other Christians over these things. In fact, I found other Christians to be my greatest adversaries against my trying to "save Jesus". Even they rejected my attempts demanding that I can't go quite that "non-literal" and still claim to believe in the Bible.

Ironically I finally agreed with the Christians, and that's when I realized it's futile and I became a full-fledged "Biblical Atheist".

But no, evolution was never a part of that equation. I never once had a problem with evolution, and I'm not aware of anyone in our church who had a problem with it either.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 3 by Divine Insight]

I accept Jesus as my prophet in a similar manner to how the Jews accept Moses as their major prophet, and Muslims accept Mohammed as their prophet.

None of which require belief in doctrines such as the Virgin Birth, (although Muslims are also taught that this is true).

But unlike most Muslims, I do not think that Jesus was infallible or perfect. That in itself does not disqualify him from being a Divinlely, enlightened and inspired prophet though.

I know what you mean though, when one rejects some of the stories of the Bible as metaphor, or even as completely untrue, other doctrines fall.

Denial of Eden as literal truth, leads to the denial of the supposed Fall of Man, and then to the denial of Paul's theology that Jesus was the 2nd Adam, the supposed perfect man who undid Adam's imperfections.

But still there are many important ideas of God that stand INDEPENDENT of those absurd doctrines.

[1213]

Given the premise that evolution exists. How does that affect your beliefs?


To clarify its fine if you don't believe in evolution that is not the purpose of the thread. The purpose of the thread is that given a premise how would it impact your beliefs if it were true. This is not to discuss the validity of evolution but to discuss how evolution impacts your beliefs. Would it negate them? would it do nothing to them? or would it booster them?

Actually I think it is true that there can be changes in the offspring of all species. And even if we believe the bible, it is obvious, because after Noah we have now all kind of different looking people. That means there are things that make difference in our look. And I think it is possible that same is with those animals that were rescued from the great flood.

I think it is possible that in the ark there were the ancestors of all modern “species� and that they have developed or perhaps degenerated from those times. So I actually agree with the idea of evolution, I just don’t believe that all species have come up from single species and maybe the whole modern definition to species is really wrong.

If it would be true that all species are from single, then it would be in contradiction with the Bible. However I don’t think it could even be proven.

[otseng]

Moderator Action

Not phrased as a debate topic, but asking for personal opinions.

Moved to General Chat.

[dianaiad]

Disclaimer:

Not really sure where this belongs science or apologetics as there is elements of both involved but here we go anyways.

______________________________________________________________________

Given the premise that evolution exists. How does that affect your beliefs?


To clarify its fine if you don't believe in evolution that is not the purpose of the thread. The purpose of the thread is that given a premise how would it impact your beliefs if it were true. This is not to discuss the validity of evolution but to discuss how evolution impacts your beliefs. Would it negate them? would it do nothing to them? or would it booster them?

Ah. Well, for me it gives me a sense of wonder and excitement. So THAT'S how God did it!

Cool.

[Wordleymaster1]

Disclaimer:

Not really sure where this belongs science or apologetics as there is elements of both involved but here we go anyways.

______________________________________________________________________

Given the premise that evolution exists. How does that affect your beliefs?


To clarify its fine if you don't believe in evolution that is not the purpose of the thread. The purpose of the thread is that given a premise how would it impact your beliefs if it were true. This is not to discuss the validity of evolution but to discuss how evolution impacts your beliefs. Would it negate them? would it do nothing to them? or would it booster them?

Any Christian worth their weight would be able to amend their belief to fit anything. Christianity is so ambiguous that this makes it quit possible - it happens all the time. You might even see it happen in this very thread

[dianaiad]

Disclaimer:

Not really sure where this belongs science or apologetics as there is elements of both involved but here we go anyways.

______________________________________________________________________

Given the premise that evolution exists. How does that affect your beliefs?


To clarify its fine if you don't believe in evolution that is not the purpose of the thread. The purpose of the thread is that given a premise how would it impact your beliefs if it were true. This is not to discuss the validity of evolution but to discuss how evolution impacts your beliefs. Would it negate them? would it do nothing to them? or would it booster them?

Any Christian worth their weight would be able to amend their belief to fit anything. Christianity is so ambiguous that this makes it quit possible - it happens all the time. You might even see it happen in this very thread

You write that as if it's a bad thing to be open to learning, and having a belief system that doesn't crash because of some scientific discovery/idea.

Indeed, is there anything that Christianity could do that would, in your view, be "not bad?"

Ordinarily, you do realize, that being open to new ideas and concepts is a good thing? Since when does it become a bad one when Christians do it?

Such an attitude is illogical.

[Wordleymaster1]

Disclaimer:

Not really sure where this belongs science or apologetics as there is elements of both involved but here we go anyways.

______________________________________________________________________

Given the premise that evolution exists. How does that affect your beliefs?


To clarify its fine if you don't believe in evolution that is not the purpose of the thread. The purpose of the thread is that given a premise how would it impact your beliefs if it were true. This is not to discuss the validity of evolution but to discuss how evolution impacts your beliefs. Would it negate them? would it do nothing to them? or would it booster them?

Any Christian worth their weight would be able to amend their belief to fit anything. Christianity is so ambiguous that this makes it quit possible - it happens all the time. You might even see it happen in this very thread

You write that as if it's a bad thing to be open to learning, and having a belief system that doesn't crash because of some scientific discovery/idea.

Indeed, is there anything that Christianity could do that would, in your view, be "not bad?"

Ordinarily, you do realize, that being open to new ideas and concepts is a good thing? Since when does it become a bad one when Christians do it?

Such an attitude is illogical.

What's illogical is your understanding of what I wrote. How you came to that conclusion is strange.