Why did God did not want manking wise (intellegent)

[Donray]

God did not want Adam and Eve to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge and become wise.

Why did God want mankind to remain stupid and ignorant?

[ttruscott]

...

In other words, your statement is forced church 'thinking' and not independent thinking it seems: God is all knowing, but we 'know' He didn't want us to know evil even though HE was the one who put the tree there KNOWING what would happen....poor circular reasoning to me

...

imCo

1.
The Church is forced to think this way ever since the early fathers chose to follow pagan Greek wisdom in their definitions of HIS nature and HIS all knowingness and their blasphemies were accepted as doctrine.

GOD does not know the result of a true free will decision by a person until they have decided because if HE does know the result before they choose then HE knows who will end in hell before their creation but created them anyway, a heinous blasphemy.

[scripture available]

2.
GOD knew and planned what would happen in the garden so that Adam and Eve could learn two things: 1) that they were sinners who should have been ashamed and needed to have their eyes opened to their sin so they could repent and be redeemed and 2) to learn the true nature of the evil of the tares by having the serpent expose his hostility to them covered over as just a theological discussion...

Peace, Ted

[ttruscott]

...

Please explain what this knowledge of evil is.
Also, explain what the knowledge of good is that mankind should know.

Remember this is the knowledge of good and evil. Mankind did not know good or evil before eating the fruit. Therefore Adam and Eve could do no good or evil.

What you Christian defender are saying is the mankind was very stupid and knew nothing that would be considered good or evil. For example Adam could kill Eve and would be excused because god did not make him with any morals either good or evil.
Nothing the Adam or Eve could do would be considered good or evil.
Since this is the case, how was Eve eating fruit evil? Please explain.

My heterodox Christian theology allows this story to be interpreted to mean that though Adam and Eve knew the difference between good an evil, they thought they were good / righteous but they were not, they had rebelled against GOD to become sinners before the creation of the earth but were not ashamed as most sinners are not ashamed. (If they had no reason to be ashamed, the fact they were not ashamed is not worth mentioning in GOD's holy word...)

GOD gave them the command not to eat knowing that their addiction to evil would ultimately compel them to eat and their eyes could be opened to their OWN PERSONAL good (the lack of) and evil (their sinfulness) so they could be brought to repentance.

They also believed they were not sinners because their earlier rebellion to GOD was done out of love for those about to be damned, the serpent and his demons, which forced GOD to postpone the judgment or Adam and Eve would have been judged as evil too and forced Adam and Eve to live with the serpent and the tares to learn that they were not worthy of idolatry, that they really were eternally evil and had to be banished from created reality as they soon learned.

As you can see, though it goes against orthodoxy which is based upon our being created on earth at conception, it does make valid and logical sense of the story as written which, I believe, was the point of your questions.

Peace, Ted

[Zzyzx]

.

Why did God want mankind to remain stupid and ignorant?

No one knows what any of the proposed gods want -- though many claim to know after reading unverifiable ancient texts or having personal emotional / mental / psychological episodes (or claiming to have).

However, preachers appear to want people who are followers that will believe what they are told without requiring evidence or challenging proclamations. Since preachers write the god stories, they can credit gods with whatever they find beneficial.

[1213]

God did not want Adam and Eve to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge and become wise.

Why did God want mankind to remain stupid and ignorant?

I think there is no reason to say that God wanted people to be stupid and ignorant. He just didn’t want them to know good and evil like he knows. And if we think how we now get the knowledge of good and evil, I think it would have been wiser to ask directly from God everything, instead of this lesson world, where we can really feel what evil (Godless reality) means.

[Youkilledkenny]

[Replying to post 21 by ttruscott]

GOD does not know the result of a true free will decision by a person until they have decided because if HE does know the result before they choose then HE knows who will end in hell before their creation but created them anyway, a heinous blasphemy.

Then God wouldn't be all knowing.

GOD knew and planned what would happen in the garden so that Adam and Eve could learn two things

Then God is one of the, not, THE worst teacher that has ever existed.
Either way, this makes God worthless it seems to me

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 21 by ttruscott]

GOD does not know the result of a true free will decision by a person until they have decided because if HE does know the result before they choose then HE knows who will end in hell before their creation but created them anyway, a heinous blasphemy.

Then God wouldn't be all knowing.

Not if you accept the pagan Greek definition of all knowing, no, HE is not but since their definition is a pagan blasphemy it can be discarded. The biblical definition of all knowing is still in play...

Of course I am not telling you how to define anything, I am mentioning why I reject one definition and choose another.

GOD knew and planned what would happen in the garden so that Adam and Eve could learn two things

Then God is one of the, not, THE worst teacher that has ever existed.
Either way, this makes God worthless it seems to me

Of course it does, but does that mean that tough love has no place in bringing back your child who is off the rails by exposing their foolishness and evil to them and proving to them they have fallen into bad company?? Why would such proof be off limits?

peace, Ted

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 5 by clive]

Since Adam and Eve sinned the price for that sin was death. But if youll notice, two innocent animals died instead, in the place of the two sinners so that the animals skins could cover sins shame.

The skins covered their nakedness. God needed sweet, sweet blood to cover the sins.

This is a pattern throughout the bible. An innocent sacrifice is needed for the sinner to go free.

This pattern you mention, is however not unique to the Bible. Sacrificing animals and humans to god concepts is common throughout many religions. Is it not odd that the god you worship is no different than many god concepts you already reject?

And this continued until Christ became the final/ultimate LAMB of God who dies for sin, in the place of the sinner.

So there is a god that can create universes with words, but cannot forgive his children without an innocent person being tortured and ultimately sacrificed to said god concept. How can do you make this work for you? Is it not totally nonsensical, just like all the other religions you already reject?

[Youkilledkenny]

[Replying to post 26 by ttruscott]

I am mentioning why I reject one definition and choose another.

Which is one MAJOR drawbacks of your religion: there's always another 'definition' or 'concept' or 'idea' one can subscribe too in order to meet their needs. There's little to no facts - it's all about ambiguity and individual acceptance and yet, many of these same individuals expect others to adhere to their own individual definition, concept or idea. Note I didn't accuse YOU f this, but 'many of these same individuals'.

Of course it[worthless God] does, but does that mean that tough love has no place in bringing back your child who is off the rails by exposing their foolishness and evil to them and proving to them they have fallen into bad company??

Why the need to correlate the two specifically? No where did I say ANYTHING about exposing foolishness or the like, simply that this God is worthless based on the definition that's taught/preached to many, including myself and those around me. Linking that God to what you say here is your own doing that I don't need to defend or challenge.

Why would such proof be off limits?

You're better served asking your God that question.

[Donray]

...

In other words, your statement is forced church 'thinking' and not independent thinking it seems: God is all knowing, but we 'know' He didn't want us to know evil even though HE was the one who put the tree there KNOWING what would happen....poor circular reasoning to me

...

imCo

1.
The Church is forced to think this way ever since the early fathers chose to follow pagan Greek wisdom in their definitions of HIS nature and HIS all knowingness and their blasphemies were accepted as doctrine.

GOD does not know the result of a true free will decision by a person until they have decided because if HE does know the result before they choose then HE knows who will end in hell before their creation but created them anyway, a heinous blasphemy.

[scripture available]

2.
GOD knew and planned what would happen in the garden so that Adam and Eve could learn two things: 1) that they were sinners who should have been ashamed and needed to have their eyes opened to their sin so they could repent and be redeemed and 2) to learn the true nature of the evil of the tares by having the serpent expose his hostility to them covered over as just a theological discussion...

Peace, Ted

This is good logic for the proof that the god of the bible does not exist or that that god is a sadistic vengeful god.

[ttruscott]

...

In other words, your statement is forced church 'thinking' and not independent thinking it seems: God is all knowing, but we 'know' He didn't want us to know evil even though HE was the one who put the tree there KNOWING what would happen....poor circular reasoning to me

...

imCo

1.
The Church is forced to think this way ever since the early fathers chose to follow pagan Greek wisdom in their definitions of HIS nature and HIS all knowingness and their blasphemies were accepted as doctrine.

GOD does not know the result of a true free will decision by a person until they have decided because if HE does know the result before they choose then HE knows who will end in hell before their creation but created them anyway, a heinous blasphemy.

[scripture available]

2.
GOD knew and planned what would happen in the garden so that Adam and Eve could learn two things: 1) that they were sinners who should have been ashamed and needed to have their eyes opened to their sin so they could repent and be redeemed and 2) to learn the true nature of the evil of the tares by having the serpent expose his hostility to them covered over as just a theological discussion...

Peace, Ted

This is good logic for the proof that the god of the bible does not exist or that that god is a sadistic vengeful god.

Interesting:
I explain how all evil and suffering is self caused by people using the freedom of their free will to create the sin that causes suffering and

I explain how the story of Adam and Eve was about the first step in the redemption of the sinful elect which will end all suffering on earth

and this is claimed to be the logical proof HE is a sadistic vengeful god?? Ooookay...