Undeniable and Scientific Evidence of THE Creator.

[Zzyzx]

.
From another thread

I present undeniable and scientific evidence of THE Creator.

I await the evidence.

Question for debate: Is the evidence undeniable and scientific (and compelling / convincing) or is it just more of the same stuff that has been presented ad nausea?

[arian]

I don't know about you, but I feel the passage of time. Put me in a dark room twice, once for a minute and once for an hour, and I'll be able to tell the difference.

Only because a lot of things are going on in your body, your heart beating for one. It's not time you are feeling or detecting, if it was, we wouldn't have wind up clocks, or electric clocks that looses the time with power outage, we would have clocks run by time. lol.

No! First, there's no such thing as timekeeping devices that run at different rates of time (unless they are dilated, and if they were dilated I couldn't "have" both at once).

Second, the devices could measure different intervals, but that's not the same as running at different rates of time.

There is no dilated clocks silly, you keep mixing religious doctrine with reality. My slow watch kept a very different rate of time than my work clock, and after a few warnings I bought a better watch, a Timex.

---------------

The problem I am pointing out with calling speed relevant but time irrelevant is entirely a matter of definition.

"Speed" means "rate of motion with respect to time". To call rate of motion with respect to time (speed) relevant while also calling time irrelevant is you contradicting yourself.

Rate of motion will get you from point A to point B whether or not you had time. Also, if you had a fast watch, do you think it would make your 'rate of motion' increase?

This is basically what Clownboat had been saying until he got fed up in post 349. I'm just about done, too.

There's nothing anyone can do if you refuse to understand this. You will alienate everyone.

If the truth hurts, or offends you I am sorry. This is a debating forum, I'm not about to give in to religious foolishness. Do you even know what the OP states? You think even for a minute that I would allow anyone reading this to believe there are other 'creators' out there?

If we were debating witchcraft, wouldn't you defend it with everything you got? Divine Insight does and i respect him for that. But when he tries to force his religious views on others, that's debatable. So is it OK if I defend my OP I was called out for?

So

And sci-fientists who hold on to the Relativity Theory should know better, my first question is; "Oh yea, 13.75 billion years old, .. really? Relative to what?"

The universe is that age relative to Earth. It's also that age relative to a hypothetical observer that has not time dilated relative to the universe at the Big Bang (there is a difference, technically, but it's virtually nothing).

The Universe is 13.75 billion years old relative to earth? How old would it be relative to Tatoonie like planet Kepler 16b which they say has two suns?

Probably about the same.

Of course when your universe revolves around your 'religious POV'
Try that with your special relativity doctrine and see if it doesn't matter. But of course you will first have to answer my ongoing question, a simple one; "Is it 'speed' that causes time dilation, or 'distancing' from the object you are traveling from?"

So me living in this universe could be experiencing billions of different ages all at once?

In a manner of speaking, yes.

FarWanderer, if time is real as you claim, as it is presented in the Theory of relativity especially in 'time dilation' effects, then you would see me at trillions of different ages, and not just in a manner of speaking.

So if I was traveling in space and were to pass by alien planets who asked me how old I was, I would have to say: "Well I was 58 back on earth, but I have been traveling at high speeds for twenty years now, so I may still be only 58 1/2, but wait, who is asking?

Yes, it is not as simple as just your age relative to yourself. Though, that may be what they are asking about. It's a matter of context.

Oh come on my friend, you know that's a croc of bull. Yea, .. like calling me and my relatives animals, apes, but if I get a lawyer the 'context' suddenly changes, right?

How long is your days, 'cause your timekeeping can effect my age also

No. Timekeeping methods don't change your age. You are still 58.5 earth years old (relative to yourself) regardless how long their planet's cycles are. It's nothing more than a perfectly mundane problem of measurement conversion, like converting miles to kilometers or Fahrenheit to Centegrade.

Oh no you don't, .. that would be my time, which is as I keep telling you, is not real and call it whatever I wish. Also, one watch could say I made the trip in one hour, the other that I did it in 1 1/2 hours, but my arrival would not change. I would be there no matter what 'time' people claim it took me to get there. It was my speed that got me there, time is irrelevant.

Look, 'time' is no different then Santa Claus, they both exist only in fairytales. Only time is much more useful in determining things, but always need to be calibrated, otherwise it's better not to even use it. Before you know it someone will make it a creator or something, as if it was real, with real effects.

, so for you Zuggz, I am 38 million years old, give or take a few billion years

In principle this is possible, depending on to what extent you have time-dilated with respect to Zuggz. However, like mentioned above, this has nothing to do with the difference in measurement methods.

OK, one more 'time'.
If I was 58 on earth, looked 58, and my ape cousins were whatever age, and I went on a long trip at .99999999999999999999999 speed of light, returned, my ape cousins may be all very old, some dead from old age right, yet I would have aged only a few minutes. In this scenario time is real, and has real effects on me and on my ape cousins, do you agree?

Either me distancing from earth, or the result of Einstein-speed, TIME has effected the people on earth and me. Now tell me HOW is it that no other planet or object in the entire universe that I live in and share my aging self would NOT be effected? I passed by my cousins Zuggs, if I was 'effected by time' and my ape cousins on earth were effected by time, then people on the planet Zugg had to be effected, and every object in the entire universe also.
But thanks be to God, time is not real no more than Santa or unicorns are.

, depends what I passed on the way here, and what speeds relative to those objects!?!?

No, it doesn't. All that matters between you and Zuggz is time dilation with respect to each other. Any time dilation with respect to other objects does not factor in the equation.

Exactly, it's your equation, and you say what it effects and what it doesn't, right?

Prove it, since logically, like in science that we have observed so far, and math that is actually useful, it is a total nonsense.
And since you claim your universe is expanding, then everything is moving "Relative to one another" and you are not God to say what time effects one object, but not the others. If you claim speed has an effect on time from one object to another, then it has effect on every object in the universe, including us animals, the age of the universe, .. everything.

So why don't they say that the earth is 13.75 billion years old relative to earth, BUT could be only 6,000 years old relative to planets traveling at near speed of light on the outskirts of our universe? Or relative to black holes, or, .. oh never mind.

You joke, but these kinds of arguments are not unheard of from young earth creationists who would like to reconcile their beliefs with Relativity.

No, .. it IS a joke. So is arguing about it, but hey, I'm game, I love comedy.

I am not a young earth creationist, I don't believe in time, remember? What is 'young'?

http://creationwiki.org/White_hole_cosmology[/quote]

[arian]

.
[Replying to post 356 by arian]

Do "sunrise" and "sunset" occur simultaneously at your location? If not, is the interval / gap between them the same in December as in June (in other words, is the daylight period shorter at one time of year than at another)?

Do you know how to determine if the daylight period is or is not shorter in summer vs. winter? How would you go about making that determination?

By looking at my wood pile. By counting the amount of wood I have chopped in the summer vs. in the winter!?

[Clownboat]

I would like to show how this went down...

Next you'll be asking me to show how "heat" can exist without thermometers.

Now that would be really dumb of me, 'cause we can feel heat.

I don't know about you, but I feel the passage of time. Put me in a dark room twice, once for a minute and once for an hour, and I'll be able to tell the difference.

Only because a lot of things are going on in your body, your heart beating for one. It's not time (notice how he cannot even discuss this topic without himself making time relevant) you are feeling or detecting, if it was, we wouldn't have wind up clocks, or electric clocks that looses the time with power outage, we would have clocks run by time. lol. (Not sure why he says this since we can detect the passage of time without the need for clocks. I'm pretty sure someone explained the day and night cycle to him already).

Here, he admits that we would feel the difference between 1 minute and 1 hour in a dark room, with or without clocks, just like how we feel heat without a thermometer.

If it wasn't for a history of such logic (or lack there-of), I would think arian is just trolling us.

One more time arian, solve this equation:
Traveling for 60 mph for "X" time ='s how much distance traveled?

If you cannot do this simple math problem, please explain what relevant piece of information that you are missing in order to complete this simple math equation.

[Zzyzx]

.

If it wasn't for a history of such logic (or lack there-of), I would think arian is just trolling us.

I do not disagree.

However, even trolls and others who post incoherent rants are helpful in demonstrating the irrationality of the causes they purport to champion.

Reasoned responses to such postings allow any interested reader to compare rational vs. irrational / supported vs. unsupported positions.

One can smile nicely and demonstrate (civilly, of course) the flaws, inconsistencies, errors, presumptions in even the silliest of posts -- and encourage such posters to make additional and/or increasingly irrational statements attempting to cover themselves or attempt to save face.

[Clownboat]

.

If it wasn't for a history of such logic (or lack there-of), I would think arian is just trolling us.

I do not disagree.

However, even trolls and others who post incoherent rants are helpful in demonstrating the irrationality of the causes they purport to champion.

Reasoned responses to such postings allow any interested reader to compare rational vs. irrational / supported vs. unsupported positions.

One can smile nicely and demonstrate (civilly, of course) the flaws, inconsistencies, errors, presumptions in even the silliest of posts -- and encourage such posters to make additional and/or increasingly irrational statements attempting to cover themselves or attempt to save face.

True.
I wonder if Christians on this site have PM'd arian asking him to remove the "Christian" user group tag?

I have come close to asking that of him on their behalf, but have not due to a fear that he will assume it is being asked of him due to how great his arguments are, when that is far from the truth.

Perhaps he is not explaining his position well? Though I doubt this is the case, perhaps there are fellow debaters here that share his thoughts. If so, I kindly ask them to state their take on the matter. If there is zero support (like I assume), this evidences the claim that he is just alienating himself by arguing for things that no one but arian finds sense in.

Is there anyone here that would like to expand on arians claim? Preferably someone that is not arian?

I prophecy "crickets".

[arian]

.

If it wasn't for a history of such logic (or lack there-of), I would think arian is just trolling us.

I do not disagree.

However, even trolls and others who post incoherent rants are helpful in demonstrating the irrationality of the causes they purport to champion.

Reasoned responses to such postings allow any interested reader to compare rational vs. irrational / supported vs. unsupported positions.

One can smile nicely and demonstrate (civilly, of course) the flaws, inconsistencies, errors, presumptions in even the silliest of posts -- and encourage such posters to make additional and/or increasingly irrational statements attempting to cover themselves or attempt to save face.

True.
I wonder if Christians on this site have PM'd arian asking him to remove the "Christian" user group tag?

No Clownboat, they have not, maybe because my posts make them look twice as to who they worship and imitate; Is it Jesus as in claiming they are Christian, .. or Lucifer as when they claim to worship Devine beings through divinations, and go out in his name terrorizing nations!?

Mathew 7:13 Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because[a] narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
... 21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? 23 And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!

I have come close to asking that of him on their behalf, but have not due to a fear that he will assume it is being asked of him due to how great his arguments are, when that is far from the truth.

I believe I have made my stand perfectly clear before all Christians, and every other religionist as to whom I worship; 'the Infinite, Eternal Creative Mind/Spirit "I Am Who I Am", not a Divine plural demon who happens to be the demon named Legion, about 2,000 strong.

Perhaps he is not explaining his position well? Though I doubt this is the case, perhaps there are fellow debaters here that share his thoughts. If so, I kindly ask them to state their take on the matter. If there is zero support (like I assume), this evidences the claim that he is just alienating himself by arguing for things that no one but arian finds sense in.

Is there anyone here that would like to expand on arians claim? Preferably someone that is not arian?

I prophecy "crickets".

You know Clownboat, as soon as I read this, I could just envision my ancestors (mothers side Jews) as they were rounded up (by my fathers side Nazis) every morning in the concentration camps and asked "if they had any thoughts" on how they were treated at the camps? In the beginning a few raised their hands, as the rest soon watched in terror them being shot; "Bang! .. Bang! .. Banned! .. Banned!", .. one after another, followed by a dreary and eerie silence only the "crickets" broke.

Are you enjoying the silence Clownboat? I hope so, because this is the most silence you'll ever hear for a very-very long time! (Mathew 8:12, 13:42, 13:50, 22:13, ..)

Take heed;

James 5:1 Come now, you rich (money, popularity), weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! 2 Your riches (technological and what you claim scientific advancement) are corrupted, and your garments (billions of years ago Big-bang theories) are moth-eaten. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded (used mostly for corruption), and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days (robbed trillion$).

4 Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud (Mercy Care, Access, Social Security) cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. 5 You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you.

[arian]

.

If it wasn't for a history of such logic (or lack there-of), I would think arian is just trolling us.

I do not disagree.

However, even trolls and others who post incoherent rants are helpful in demonstrating the irrationality of the causes they purport to champion.

Amen brother, this is exactly why I answered your OP, to present a clear, coherent scientific explanation of our Creator and reveal those trolls and others who post incoherent rants like Big-bang Evolution stories as theories, and worse yet, .. as 'scientific theories'!

Reasoned responses to such postings allow any interested reader to compare rational vs. irrational / supported vs. unsupported positions.

And of course, I couldn't agree with you more. I mean what irrational and unsupported positions will they try to pass on the public next? Oh I know, .. "We have created a Parallel Universe in the basement at the LHC!"
Or, .. "If you look through your microwave, you will see 13 billion years into the past", .. yea, as your brain is slowly being fried by the microwaves, .. lol.

One can smile nicely and demonstrate (civilly, of course) the flaws, inconsistencies, errors, presumptions in even the silliest of posts -- and encourage such posters to make additional and/or increasingly irrational statements attempting to cover themselves or attempt to save face.

Yeah, .. and as we see they continue revealing their flaws, inconsistencies, errors, presumptions in even the silliest of sci-fientific announcements, seems like every day it's something else. If it's not 'creating a mind', then it's nanobots keeping people alive for hundreds of years, all while screaming: "Too many people on the earth! .. too many people on the earth!"

But I guess the only thing we could do is hope and pray, and continue to reveal their foolish errors in a civil manner like, .. right?

[Zzyzx]

.

Reasoned responses to such postings allow any interested reader to compare rational vs. irrational / supported vs. unsupported positions.

And of course, I couldn't agree with you more. I mean what irrational and unsupported positions will they try to pass on the public next?

Here's an example from another thread:

The Germans bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki for not going through with the plan to take over US . . .

[Clownboat]

.

If it wasn't for a history of such logic (or lack there-of), I would think arian is just trolling us.

I do not disagree.

However, even trolls and others who post incoherent rants are helpful in demonstrating the irrationality of the causes they purport to champion.

Reasoned responses to such postings allow any interested reader to compare rational vs. irrational / supported vs. unsupported positions.

One can smile nicely and demonstrate (civilly, of course) the flaws, inconsistencies, errors, presumptions in even the silliest of posts -- and encourage such posters to make additional and/or increasingly irrational statements attempting to cover themselves or attempt to save face.

True.
I wonder if Christians on this site have PM'd arian asking him to remove the "Christian" user group tag?

No Clownboat, they have not,

Interesting...

maybe because my posts make them look twice as to who they worship and imitate; Is it Jesus as in claiming they are Christian, .. or Lucifer as when they claim to worship Devine beings through divinations, and go out in his name terrorizing nations!?

Seems like a delusion of grander and I don't see why I should respond.

(Scripture quote removed for lack of relevance).

I believe I have made my stand perfectly clear before all Christians, and every other religionist as to whom I worship; 'the Infinite, Eternal Creative Mind/Spirit "I Am Who I Am", not a Divine plural demon who happens to be the demon named Legion, about 2,000 strong.

Arian. It is obvious that you believe in all sorts of things. I'm trying to determine if there is anyone out there that shares your feelings. Either way, I don't see how some demon named Legion has anything to do with outsiders reading your posts while also noticing the "Christian" label, nor what you believing in a demon named Legion has to do with finding support for your claims.

Perhaps he is not explaining his position well? Though I doubt this is the case, perhaps there are fellow debaters here that share his thoughts. If so, I kindly ask them to state their take on the matter. If there is zero support (like I assume), this evidences the claim that he is just alienating himself by arguing for things that no one but arian finds sense in.

Is there anyone here that would like to expand on arians claim? Preferably someone that is not arian?

I prophecy "crickets".

You know Clownboat, as soon as I read this, I could just envision my ancestors (mothers side Jews) as they were rounded up (by my fathers side Nazis) every morning in the concentration camps and asked "if they had any thoughts" on how they were treated at the camps? In the beginning a few raised their hands, as the rest soon watched in terror them being shot; "Bang! .. Bang! .. Banned! .. Banned!", .. one after another, followed by a dreary and eerie silence only the "crickets" broke.

I will not be blamed for what your mind conjures up. I'm trying to find out if you have any support. NOT EXTERMINATE JEWS. Come back to reality please.

Are you enjoying the silence Clownboat? I hope so, because this is the most silence you'll ever hear for a very-very long time!

Please explain in your own words rather than trying to have a book speak for you.

Take heed;

Why arian? I'm trying to determine if you have any support whatsoever. So why would I need to take heed?

[Bust Nak]

You know Clownboat, as soon as I read this, I could just envision my ancestors (mothers side Jews) as they were rounded up (by my fathers side Nazis) every morning in the concentration camps and asked "if they had any thoughts" on how they were treated at the camps? In the beginning a few raised their hands, as the rest soon watched in terror them being shot; "Bang! .. Bang! .. Banned! .. Banned!", .. one after another, followed by a dreary and eerie silence only the "crickets" broke.

Did you just compared the moderators to Nazis and accused us of abusing our powers by banning people for agreeing with you? You better clarify that because that's what it reads like.