Was Primordial man Conscious?

[mickiel]

I often wonder if Primordial man even was conscious as we are conscious? I keep coming up with no! Is it possible for a whole race of humans to exist and not be conscious? I think so. Primordial man certainly had very high instincts and that is why they survived for so long; but why did they stay stagnate for so long? Never became civilized. I think because they were not conscious, as we are conscious.

They certainly were not civilized.

The signs of consciousness and civilization, ( and I think consciousness is what led to civilization), are as follows;

Education
Transportation
Language
Math
War
Religion
Agriculture
Building
Sports
technology
culture
And so on. Primordial man never displayed any of these in advanced stages; they were more animal like than I think is reported. They really did not evolve much at all in any of those areas.

And not being conscious beings would explain why.

[Danmark]

I don't fall for imagination.com, or lifecamefromnothing.com.

I disagree, Evolution proceeds in direction, and direction implies director. Direction means deliberate, because evolution was deliberately done. And it has a deliberate purpose, a meaningful direction; it is not happenstance mindless chance.

Do you have evidence for this "direction?"

Imperfect design is so well documented creationists have had to come up with a catch-all excuse, called "The Fall." More magical thinking.

Here's a start from Rational Wiki:
Making people who are stupid, and letting them do and believe what ever they like
Not designing the human body the way he wants it by having all human males born circumcised like Shem.
Physical birth defects and intersex conditions.
Aging, which is quite literally caused by a biological error in cells.
Placement of the male external genitalia in a rather easy to attack position (unless it was deliberate to allow women easy retaliation).
And on the subject of genitalia… why are the same members that are used for body waste excretion also used for the most fun and interesting activities that humans can engage in? And why is a man's G spot in his anus if anal sex is forbidden by God?
Not being able to correctly calculate the number of teeth necessary to fill the average adult human mouth.[7]
Use of a particularly inefficient system when making the vertebrate eye.
Error in testosterone management system which consequently makes many men go bald.[8]
Giving humans appendixes, which occasionally swell up and try to kill their owners.
The provision of a really bad, sometimes lethal, system of giving birth. (Though it may not have been so bad at first — He deliberately made it more painful to cruelly punish all women for the original sin thing.)
Failure to provide a system to synthesize vitamin C (or the failure in design that humans need vitamin C to begin with).
Drinking and laughing at the same time — makes the drink come out of the person's nose. Or potentially choke the victim of such a lousy design.
Human back — seems to cause a disproportionate number of problems which is usually followed by Vicodin addiction.
Spinal cord injuries being (at this point) unfixable

Not to mention 99% of species already having gone extinct.
Yay! God!

Neil Tyson did it better with his 'Stupid Design' lecture.


And why did he use evolution at all? Why not do it the way the YEC crowd suggests:
[POOF!] "You're created. Whew! six whole days. I'm exhausted."

[mickiel]

I do not believe in " The Fall', I believe in the " Throw", man was thrown out of the garden of Eden after he was " Set Up" by God to fail. God wanted the man to be misled.

I do not believe in the so called ' 7 day creation", I believe those time periods may have lasted millions, thousands or billions of years each; the 7 days could have been very long extended periods of time as we measure it, because a day with God, could be like a thousand years with us; meaning we cannot measure how long it took him to create; he had absolutely no reason to be in a hurry.

Do I have evidence of this " Direction?" Yes, I'll start with you. You're consciousness is not wild and untamed, you are not mindless , having no direction in your thoughts; you are proof of intended design by a designer; a thinker enabled you to think.

Listen, I'll NEVER insult my intelligence by believing that I am the result of random, unthinking, aimless self creating matter. This thread has direction because I gave it that. It has subject matter because I gave it that. And I will not give that obvious creative reason over to mindless scientific conjecture that makes a stupid unthinking rock, my ancestor!

It's nice reasoning with you Danmark.

[Goat]

I don't fall for imagination.com, or lifecamefromnothing.com.

I disagree, Evolution proceeds in direction, and direction implies director. Direction means deliberate, because evolution was deliberately done. And it has a deliberate purpose, a meaningful direction; it is not happenstance mindless chance.

Please show that it 'proceeds with direction'. It has a path that happened, yes, but that is just because of historical data rather than intention.

It seems you have many declarations and bad assumptions in even that one statement. It also appears to me that your assumptions are based on what you want to conclude.

[mickiel]

[quote="[url=http://debatingchristianity.com/


Please show that it 'proceeds with direction'. It has a path that happened, yes, but that is just because of historical data rather than intention.

It seems you have many declarations and bad assumptions in even that one statement. It also appears to me that your assumptions are based on what you want to conclude.

All too easy; all evolution proceeds toward the future, in that direction;

please show me evolution that goes backwards.

[Goat]

[quote="[url=http://debatingchristianity.com/


Please show that it 'proceeds with direction'. It has a path that happened, yes, but that is just because of historical data rather than intention.

It seems you have many declarations and bad assumptions in even that one statement. It also appears to me that your assumptions are based on what you want to conclude.

All too easy; all evolution proceeds toward the future, in that direction;

please show me evolution that goes backwards.

There is a difference between a historical 'this is what happened', and then using that to accurately predict what will happen in the future. The time of arrow happens in one direction, so historically , the changes that an orgianism has gone through is 'set it stone'..

However, changes happen in response to environment.. but in no particular direction. Can you predict how humans will evolve in the future if there is a 'direction"??

You are mixing apples and oranges.

[mickiel]

[quote="[url=http://debatingchristianity.com/


Please show that it 'proceeds with direction'. It has a path that happened, yes, but that is just because of historical data rather than intention.

It seems you have many declarations and bad assumptions in even that one statement. It also appears to me that your assumptions are based on what you want to conclude.

All too easy; all evolution proceeds toward the future, in that direction;

please show me evolution that goes backwards.

There is a difference between a historical 'this is what happened', and then using that to accurately predict what will happen in the future. The time of arrow happens in one direction, so historically , the changes that an orgianism has gone through is 'set it stone'..

However, changes happen in response to environment.. but in no particular direction. Can you predict how humans will evolve in the future if there is a 'direction"??

You are mixing apples and oranges.

This is so lame I am shocked! Evolution goes forward, give me an example of that not being considered direction. Show me proof that evolution has no forward direction.

Show me evidence please!

[Goat]

[quote="[url=http://debatingchristianity.com/


Please show that it 'proceeds with direction'. It has a path that happened, yes, but that is just because of historical data rather than intention.

It seems you have many declarations and bad assumptions in even that one statement. It also appears to me that your assumptions are based on what you want to conclude.

All too easy; all evolution proceeds toward the future, in that direction;

please show me evolution that goes backwards.

There is a difference between a historical 'this is what happened', and then using that to accurately predict what will happen in the future. The time of arrow happens in one direction, so historically , the changes that an orgianism has gone through is 'set it stone'..

However, changes happen in response to environment.. but in no particular direction. Can you predict how humans will evolve in the future if there is a 'direction"??

You are mixing apples and oranges.

This is so lame I am shocked! Evolution goes forward, give me an example of that not being considered direction. Show me proof that evolution has no forward direction.

Show me evidence please!

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_ ... complexity

This idea of "progression" in evolution is now regarded as misleading, with natural selection having no intrinsic direction and organisms selected for either increased or decreased complexity in response to local environmental conditions.[4] Although there has been an increase in the maximum level of complexity over the history of life, there has always been a large majority of small and simple organisms and the most common level of complexity (the mode) appears to have remained relatively constant.

[mickiel]

Evolution has direction, its direction is the future;

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 471400080X

[Danmark]

Evolution has direction, its direction is the future;

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 471400080X

Thanks. From the article:
Two great trends are evident in the evolution of life on Earth: towards increasing diversification and towards increasing integration. Diversification has spread living processes across the planet, progressively increasing the range of environments and free energy sources exploited by life. Integration has proceeded through a stepwise process in which living entities at one level are integrated into cooperative groups that become larger-scale entities at the next level, and so on, producing cooperative organizations of increasing scale....

Of course this is not 'direction' in the sense we have been discussing. It is not teleological. This abstract is merely descriptive. It is interesting nonetheless.

[mickiel]

Well I thought it was interesting as well.