Undeniable and Scientific Evidence of THE Creator.

[Zzyzx]

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From another thread

I present undeniable and scientific evidence of THE Creator.

I await the evidence.

Question for debate: Is the evidence undeniable and scientific (and compelling / convincing) or is it just more of the same stuff that has been presented ad nausea?

[Strider324]

[Replying to post 418 by arian]

The definitions of Mind show no confluence with those of Soul. Your pretense that they are synonymous may be needed to support your argument, but they are still disparate concepts. Ultimately, you are presenting yet another tired version of the Divine Fallacy:

"We can't see or touch the Mind, and we lack the patience to wait for any natural explanations for how brain chemistry produces the thoughts that result in what we call Mind - therefore, God."

The Blue brain stuff was cool though.

[arian]

I have yet to see any reasonable explanation by any atheist for an alternative to an Intelligent Creator.

It makes no sense to speak of "alternatives" when there are no reasonable arguments for an Intelligent Creator in the first place.

LOL, .. And to prove this to be true, just go to any auto manufacturing facility and you will see that they just pile a bunch of scrap metal, and truck loads of recyclables out in the back, then they chem-trail the area and use HAARP to force a tornado to go through the pile of junk creating all kinds of different model automobiles. All through chaos, chance, and time. No plan, no need for intelligence in piling the garbage, no preplanned design, just a tornado and the Higgs bosons that are floating around, .. right FarWanderer?

This is why they are dummifying our children, making them practice witchcraft in every game out there to make them believe that there is no reasonable need for an Intelligent Creator, which includes them as future intelligent creators, since their future is all planned out by the magical un-planners, a life in a Matrix. A computer game where all they will need is a couple of Adam and Eve plants, a feather of an eagle, and some pixy dust, a few magic words and Poooff! An enchanted Ford Mustang, pin striping included.

[arian]

[Replying to post 408 by Starman]

Do you even know how many atheists there are? Let's just take the US. Fully 80% of Americans self-identify as Christians. So is it any surprise that the majority of ANYTHING - counts mostly Christians among its members? Atheists have been the most discriminated minority in this country. 28 states allow an employer to fire me for no other reason than my atheism. I can be denied housing for the same reason. I can be denied public office as well. And thanx to the hateful bigotry of those Christians who piously demand their 'right' to discriminate under FRFA laws, I can be denied even more. Having to fight every day for the basic rights you take for granted - where would I have time to open a fucking hospital?

Here's the salient difference between world views. As an atheist, I donate around 20% of my income to medical research, food kitchens, and secular organizations that promote treating all humans with dignity.

Wow! Christians cheat even on the 10% they are to give, .. so your twice as Christ-like (Christian) as they are. And I have seen those hospitals where they treat all humans with dignity, I seen the nurses torture my two newborn infants with efficiency, dignity, and the highest show of professionalism I have ever seen,

And no one can EVER look at my charity and wonder if my motivation for doing so is only in response to the bribe of heaven or the threat of hell. No Christian can EVER prove that they weren't thus motivated by the hope of a reward. So please, keep your pharisaic bragging about all the good Christians do to yourself. It's a numbers game. 80% of the good done in this country can be ascribed to Christians. But guess what? 80% of the evil done is also by Christians.

In fact, Christians actually represent an even higher % of our prison populations. Why is that?

Maybe because those atheists children who are not allowed to read the Bible in schools or at home end up in prison where they are given a Bible to read, and become Christians!?!?

Have you or any Christians you know given away all of your possessions to follow Jesus?

No need to do that, as long as we are willing to. If it comes down to between my possession and following Jesus, hey bye, bye possessions.

Do you or any Christians you know actively love your enemies?

I do for one, .. I would never bear arms against anyone.

Can you or ANY Christian tell me what Jesus has to say about the homosexuals you marginalize and want to deny benefits to? Can you tell me why your benevolent 'creator' just happens to think treating women as second class citizens and slaughtering babies and looking at dwarves and the near-sighted and those who have suffered injury to their genitals are just as despised as homosexuals? Can you explain your religions perverted fixation with the verse that says homosexuality is detestable, while they absolutely ignore the verse 3 verses earlier that makes the exact same abomination claim for men who have sex with their wives during menstruation? If you can intelligently explain these things, I make consider your other claims

The Bible explains all this very intelligently, your gripe is against the religious unfair definitions, the Constantine invented Christian Religion.

Remember when they brought a woman to Jesus who was caught in adultery? I believe the same would have been if they brought a man caught in a homosexual act.

Your evidence for any creator so far is as empty as the claims most Christians make about honoring the teachings of Jesus.

What does the Evidence of the Creator have anything to do with how the religious define Jesus? Religion define their own gods that support their religious agendas, which the past 2000 years of history should be a good example of, right?

[Danmark]

I have yet to see any reasonable explanation by any atheist for an alternative to an Intelligent Creator.

It makes no sense to speak of "alternatives" when there are no reasonable arguments for an Intelligent Creator in the first place.

LOL, .. And to prove this to be true, just go to any auto manufacturing facility and you will see that they just pile a bunch of scrap metal, and truck loads of recyclables out in the back, then they chem-trail the area and use HAARP to force a tornado to go through the pile of junk creating all kinds of different model automobiles. All through chaos, chance, and time. No plan, no need for intelligence in piling the garbage, no preplanned design, just a tornado and the Higgs bosons that are floating around, .. right FarWanderer?

This is why they are dummifying our children, making them practice witchcraft in every game out there to make them believe that there is no reasonable need for an Intelligent Creator, which includes them as future intelligent creators, since their future is all planned out by the magical un-planners, a life in a Matrix. A computer game where all they will need is a couple of Adam and Eve plants, a feather of an eagle, and some pixy dust, a few magic words and Poooff! An enchanted Ford Mustang, pin striping included.

This is the first I've heard that cellular based living organisms developed from wind blowing thru piles of scrap metal. I am astonished to learn that the same processes that produce automobiles in a matter of hours is used to produce animals over 3.5 billion years. This is truly amazing.

[arian]

I have yet to see any reasonable explanation by any atheist for an alternative to an Intelligent Creator.

It makes no sense to speak of "alternatives" when there are no reasonable arguments for an Intelligent Creator in the first place.

LOL, .. And to prove this to be true, just go to any auto manufacturing facility and you will see that they just pile a bunch of scrap metal, and truck loads of recyclables out in the back, then they chem-trail the area and use HAARP to force a tornado to go through the pile of junk creating all kinds of different model automobiles. All through chaos, chance, and time. No plan, no need for intelligence in piling the garbage, no preplanned design, just a tornado and the Higgs bosons that are floating around, .. right FarWanderer?

This is why they are dummifying our children, making them practice witchcraft in every game out there to make them believe that there is no reasonable need for an Intelligent Creator, which includes them as future intelligent creators, since their future is all planned out by the magical un-planners, a life in a Matrix. A computer game where all they will need is a couple of Adam and Eve plants, a feather of an eagle, and some pixy dust, a few magic words and Poooff! An enchanted Ford Mustang, pin striping included.

This is the first I've heard that cellular based living organisms developed from wind blowing thru piles of scrap metal. I am astonished to learn that the same processes that produce automobiles in a matter of hours is used to produce animals over 3.5 billion years. This is truly amazing.

Wait, .. I wasn't done yet. You guys keep telling me not to conflate the Big-bang theory with biological evolution, remember? The Evolution Theory is right across the street from the Big-bang theory. There they dump the garbage instead of the recycled plastic and old cars.

For instance, .. McDonalds old moldy chicken nuggets evolve all the species of birds, while the Outback Stake House Restaurant left overs contributes to wild beasts of every kind from Gazelles, to Zebras to Ephelents, .. see how that works? But remember that evolution happens, chem-trails or no chem-trails, all you need is time to ferment, and the high-frequency radio-energy from HAARP.
Rain is also crucial to create just the right consistency of primordial soup, otherwise in 3.5 billion years we'll be harvesting chicken nuggets from Buffalo. It's a delicate balance indeed, the rain temperature has to be just right, along with timing from old father Time (no sun-dials), otherwise the T-bones will evolve T-Rexes instead of cows. Try to eat that medium-rare, .. would be like chewing on an old Indian tent, we would all evolve teeth like actor Gary Busey!

There, .. you had to ask didn't you? Now we really derailed the thread.

[arian]

[Replying to post 423 by Danmark]

Hey Danmark, I noticed your new signature: "The invisible and the non-existent often look very much alike."

Yeah, until you try to walk through a clean 1/2" thick sliding glass door, you gona wish it was non-existent! The same with our Creator, .. on Judgment Day!

[arian]

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This is the very reason I have taken Z's challenge to prove there is "Undeniable Scientific evidence of THE Creator",

Feel free to start any time presenting EVIDENCE " not conjecture, opinion, personal testimonials.

My proof is within these pages (minus the d-erailing's, d-iversions, d-enials, d-emonizing my interpretation when I specifically stated our Creator is NOT a d-emon, or a d-eity) .. and that's just the d's, I didn't get to the e's yet

Speculating about human "mind" being eternal (or whatever) proves nothing at all

Google - About 32,600,000 results (0.38 seconds)
Search Results on the speculation of the human brain/mind
Human Brain Project
Human Brain Project's logo European Commission logo. HBP Sign In - About - Research - Participate - Education - Consortium - General Info - HBP Connect.

" nor does attempting to denigrate scientific studies or the religious beliefs (or non-beliefs) of others.

I guess denigrating is reserved for our Eternal Creator, the Bible, scientific-absolutes, other Bible believers who make sense on this forum, and of course lastly but not least 'arian', .. right Z? But as you can see, gold truly is purified by fire. So as always, I have nothing but gratitude for it, .. Ok, .. not always, .. maybe even seldom, .. occasionally?

Four hundred posts into the thread and not a shred of evidence " only speculation and incredible opinion.

Hot-dang Z, .. 400 posts and that's all you got out from all that Undeniable Evidence I have provided for you; speculation and incredible opinion? Do you want me to switch over to Sci-Fientist talk? I can do Sci-Fientist you know, but then you will only understand the created gods which you and the rest already have, and only know of, and not the Creator, the Infinite and Eternal One, the only One possible as I have shown 400 or so times, all through scientific explanation.

If Jesus didn't exist,

I'll agree, for the moment, that Jesus existed " perhaps as a wandering rabbi and wannabee messiah (both of which appear to have been common in his era).

Is there evidence that he was supernatural or divine?

For the 400dth posts.. time, NO.
Supernatural and divine would be your deities who you have learned through theology, the study of demons, and false gods. .. the ones you say you don't believe in, except for the special non-theistic deiststic of the third-kind type .. or whatever that you hope exists!?

prove to me Abraham Lincoln existed, or anyone in history. Just remember since we cannot use the history Book the Bible as fact, you cannot use any history book as fact either. So go ahead and prove Abraham Lincoln existed at all?

US government records exist (and are not history books).

So US no longer keeps records in books? No wonder our government became so corrupt! Where do they keep all them records, .. on sticky notes?

Hey that reminds me of the movie "Bruce Almighty", he tried that when he was given the power of God! lol.

Worldwide journalistic accounts exist (and are not history books).

Aahh, .. on sticky-notes there too ay? Thank God for Wikipedia then!!

A birthplace and a grave exist (and are not history books).

No way, tell me they don't have 7 billion peoples birth place recorded on sticky-notes, .. also I KNOW funeral homes have books on the names and the location of the graves of the dead, I've seen my parents recorded there.

Also, Lincoln is not proposed to have performed any supernatural feats or to have been a "god" so such things need not be proved.

Wrong, he was a Believer, and any Believer is a son of God like our brother Jesus was. So do you believe Lincoln existed or not? If so, prove it?

Now, concerning Jesus as a god (or whatever is being claimed), what evidence exists? Stories! Unverifiable stories " period.

Yes, that He said he was not God but the Son of God, and the miracles he did, and what He taught, His death and resurrection all written and recorded in Books, little books called the Bible which have been verified thousands of different ways, just ask anyone, even your fellow unbelievers and they will tell you about Jesus.

The same as they will tell you about Abraham Lincoln, by those 'unverifiable stories' in those books.

[FarWanderer]

I have yet to see any reasonable explanation by any atheist for an alternative to an Intelligent Creator.

It makes no sense to speak of "alternatives" when there are no reasonable arguments for an Intelligent Creator in the first place.

LOL, .. And to prove this to be true, just go to any auto manufacturing facility and you will see that they just pile a bunch of scrap metal, and truck loads of recyclables out in the back, then they chem-trail the area and use HAARP to force a tornado to go through the pile of junk creating all kinds of different model automobiles. All through chaos, chance, and time. No plan, no need for intelligence in piling the garbage, no preplanned design, just a tornado and the Higgs bosons that are floating around, .. right FarWanderer?

This is an argument against things assembling themselves by chance. I do not know what "chance" even means in the context of creating reality itself.

This is why they are dummifying our children, making them practice witchcraft in every game out there to make them believe that there is no reasonable need for an Intelligent Creator, which includes them as future intelligent creators, since their future is all planned out by the magical un-planners, a life in a Matrix. A computer game where all they will need is a couple of Adam and Eve plants, a feather of an eagle, and some pixy dust, a few magic words and Poooff! An enchanted Ford Mustang, pin striping included.

I find it strange that you consider this silly, since your proposal has an entity that does exactly this kind of thing.

[arian]

I have yet to see any reasonable explanation by any atheist for an alternative to an Intelligent Creator.

It makes no sense to speak of "alternatives" when there are no reasonable arguments for an Intelligent Creator in the first place.

LOL, .. And to prove this to be true, just go to any auto manufacturing facility and you will see that they just pile a bunch of scrap metal, and truck loads of recyclables out in the back, then they chem-trail the area and use HAARP to force a tornado to go through the pile of junk creating all kinds of different model automobiles. All through chaos, chance, and time. No plan, no need for intelligence in piling the garbage, no preplanned design, just a tornado and the Higgs bosons that are floating around, .. right FarWanderer?

This is an argument against things assembling themselves by chance. I do not know what "chance" even means in the context of creating reality itself.

Remember some time ago we debated the possibility of a 'chance' that a cosmic accident could create the universe?
They (fellow Debaters) told me that it was 1:1, since it happened. The same would happen again and again I was told (if my memory serves me right). Now if we 'assume' that it happened by chance, then 1:1 possibility sounds right, .. that is until we examine the finished product, our universe, earth and biological life especially man, THEN the odds of 1:1 become laughable.

Like I said, that a single quantum speck in nothing called the 'universe', before it evolved or created 'anything else'; 1:1 makes sense. Because we say; "Well there it is, look at it, a quantum speck, the basicest and tiniest element possible, it is all we got and it sits there in nothing!" BUT then, they ruin those odds, and increase the possibilities as they add to the story; "It was getting denser and hotter, .."

To explain a "quantum speck in nothing" getting denser and hotter we need more stuff. Lets put 'gravity' in there with it, now the odds are 1/2. Put this in a 'point in space', we have 1 out of 3. Now this is ONLY possible if we ignore everything else in the universe and ONLY imagine the ONE quantum speck IN nothing (since I know what 'nothing' IS, we don't need to add a value to it, only the quantum speck has a value 1:1 or one. But a 'point in space in nothing' and gravity (that is a quantum specks worth of gravity), and now we have;
1. point in space, or a specks worth of space, no more and no less,
2. the quantum speck,
3. gravity.

But here is the problem, what are we to call the 'Universe'? Are we to imagine it as the 'quantum speck', or as we see it and observe it through science today? There is now a huge, or as you guys call it; 'an infinite difference'! Or as Cantor would call it; "Infinity of infinities", which is again wrong, but 1/10,000,000,000 would be nice acceptable number, give or take a few dozen zeros would not change the 'impossibility' of it. It is as logical as Dr. Evil's; "ten, 300, 1,000 million trillion dollars", and I'm sure Mini-Me would agree with me on this!

This is why they are dummifying our children, making them practice witchcraft in every game out there to make them believe that there is no reasonable need for an Intelligent Creator, which includes them as future intelligent creators, since their future is all planned out by the magical un-planners, a life in a Matrix. A computer game where all they will need is a couple of Adam and Eve plants, a feather of an eagle, and some pixy dust, a few magic words and Poooff! An enchanted Ford Mustang, pin striping included.

I find it strange that you consider this silly, since your proposal has an entity that does exactly this kind of thing.

YES!!!!!!! IT IS Very Much the same concept, only mine makes perfect sense. It is not magic, but laws, order, plan, all done by our creative mind. Our tools, that is man the created-creators tools, materials, everything is outside our mind and has been 'created' for us by The Creator! All we have to do is enjoy, both gathering the materials, planning what we want to create, and doing it, actually use our hands as tools to create. See, we are 'little created creators', created in our Infinite eternal Creators Image1

AAaahh... if you guys could just imagine the difference between finite and Infinite, between time (which is at least two created things in motion) and Eternity which is without time. Time can exist inside eternity, and each moment can be defined by whatever we wish to define it by. Like when we 'finish a project we could call it 'one day', it doesn't matter how small or how big the project! It really is the SAME now, we on earth define time by splitting up a solar-day into 24 hours and set it with some gears in a clock, or whatever other more accurate system we use! So time is whatever we say it is, on earth it is solar-time.

But no, even though I show you that you are actually working with Infinity and IN Eternity, your Mind, you guys rather play with magic. So you want to play with magic? Then you gona hear that devil ROOAARRR! .. and devour you!

[KenRU]

This is why they are dummifying our children, making them practice witchcraft in every game out there to make them believe that there is no reasonable need for an Intelligent Creator, which includes them as future intelligent creators, since their future is all planned out by the magical un-planners, a life in a Matrix. A computer game where all they will need is a couple of Adam and Eve plants, a feather of an eagle, and some pixy dust, a few magic words and Poooff! An enchanted Ford Mustang, pin striping included.

I find it strange that you consider this silly, since your proposal has an entity that does exactly this kind of thing.

YES!!!!!!! IT IS Very Much the same concept, only mine makes perfect sense.

Only to you, Arian.

It is not magic,

Talking animals, prayers being answered, plagues visited upon mankind by a vengeful god, resurrection, water into wine. Nope, no magic required.

but laws,

Don't eat shellfish ...

order,

Children born with holes in their heart, or cancer,

plan,

With a fossil record designed to trick us about the age of the universe ...

But no, even though I show you that you are actually working with Infinity and IN Eternity, your Mind, you guys rather play with magic.

Please show us an example of someone here playing with magic.

So you want to play with magic? Then you gona hear that devil ROOAARRR! .. and devour you!

Please show evidence that devils exists.