Why does God need a book?

[OnceConvinced]

The bible tells us about the Book of Life, which contains the names of those who have been saved and are going to Heaven. If your name does not appear you go to Hell. (Chick Tracts even have God asking the chief Angel "Does his name appear in the book of life?")

There are two issues I have with this (and topics for discussion):

1) If God is all knowing and he knows each of us personally, then why does he need a book to record our names? Santa doesn't need a book to know who's naughty and nice. He just knows. But God needs a book. Why does he need a book when he is all knowing?

2) Why a book? Wouldn't they have really amazing technology in Heaven? You'd think they'd have computers, perhaps even something superior to computers. If the bible had described some kind of metal box that contained all the names... or perhaps a flat round disk, that would go a long way to showing that the bible was divine and not just ancient man's ignorance. Imagine how huge the book would have to be! It would be mammoth. So why use a book rather than some other form of data storage?

Feel free to speculate, even if you have nothing solid.

[Inigo Montoya]

Arain wrote

Yes, I have very little schooling, but a keen ability to understand concepts no matter its difficulty.

Objection, your honor. As citing evidence, let me present a summary of every post ever made by Arian.

''There is a non-man-made God that really means eternal consciousness linked to our inner spirit, but I'm not at all religious, ergo if I was on a spaceship traveling at C with a hammer and a string and a twin brother and a clock and an hourglass...''

LOL, .. you are funny.

Yeah, according to special relativity, if we took that hammer at 0.99999 C and threw it out the window, it would be tiny as a quark, and weigh near the mass of the entire universe, and would annihilate every star and planet in it's way! Talking about Odin's Hammer!!

Why, you don't believe in the non-man made God? Must every god be man-made? It sure seems like it since no one can understand the One True God "I Am Who I Am".

Take care Montoya.

Friendly pro-tip: If you don't understand special relativity (which you obviously don't, as evidenced by countless posts in your hand), don't write on it or even mention it in passing.

Until evidence is presented to the contrary, every ''god'' being man-made is exactly where reason leads. Gods that have to be argued into existence or exist solely in philosophical dialogue or sleight of hand syllogisms are of no use to anyone. Present company excluded, of course.

[Korah]

[Replying to post 78 by arian]
You're shooting from the hip again, arian. Yes, I did say that Mormons correctly deduce from the Bible that each human soul already existed before birth, indeed even before conception. That's called Pre-existence. I'm Lutheran, but Luther was wrong to teach that the human soul arises as a product of conception (Traducianism). The usual (wrong) doctrine is that God specially creates each human soul at conception.
But Mormons also are wrong. Where did this pre-existent soul come from? It already existed just as Jesus taught as some earlier human being. "But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. ..Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist." (Mt.16:12ab, 13: NIV) See Elihu speaking for God in Job 33, especially verses 29 and 30, and best read in the New American Bible from verse 22 to 30.
But in your typical wildness, you're not afraid to think outside the box, even OUTSIDE YOUR OWN BOX, that someone else may have something to teach you.

As for becoming something else, I have already stated here recently that I have been sequentially a Methodist, agnostic, Arian, liberal Protestant. liberal Roman Catholic, Traditionalist Roman Catholic, Charismatic Renewal Roman Catholic, Episcopalian, and ELCA Lutheran, in which I currently feel ill suited. So I will likely change again. Maybe Nestorian, I don't know.

[OnceConvinced]

The bible tells us about the Book of Life, which contains the names of those who have been saved and are going to Heaven. If your name does not appear you go to Hell. (Chick Tracts even have God asking the chief Angel "Does his name appear in the book of life?")

There are two issues I have with this (and topics for discussion):

1) If God is all knowing and he knows each of us personally, then why does he need a book to record our names? Santa doesn't need a book to know who's naughty and nice. He just knows. But God needs a book. Why does he need a book when he is all knowing?

2) Why a book? Wouldn't they have really amazing technology in Heaven? You'd think they'd have computers, perhaps even something superior to computers. If the bible had described some kind of metal box that contained all the names... or perhaps a flat round disk, that would go a long way to showing that the bible was divine and not just ancient man's ignorance. Imagine how huge the book would have to be! It would be mammoth. So why use a book rather than some other form of data storage?

Feel free to speculate, even if you have nothing solid.

I don't think its a question of "needs", thats a strong word that you are assuming and "needs" is not used in the scripture either... right?

and this question has kind of a literal since to it. You talk about it like its a literal book, but it is not a literal statement. In fact, I believe that is talked about in Revelations, right? Revelations is a book that was a vision... There is not a lot of literal content in revelations. The entire book is full of symbolic metaphors, and such...

I think it's easy for Christians to claim it's not a literal book, especially in this day and age where it would be just absurd. I don't see why the people at the time would think that it was symbolic though.

Revelations may be a book of symbolism, but does that mean that the book of life is? It could be but can we know for sure?

[OnceConvinced]

I dare to take for granted that the apostles (and all disciples) of Christ in general were christians. So that raises this question:
Did Judas become an ex-christian when he went traitor on Christ or was he never truly saved ?

Some will read out of earlier Judas-references that it is rather the latter, but then that raises the question:
Why would Christ appoint a none-christian to apostleship?

Exactly. Christ chose his disciples very carefully and Judas was one of them. He was endorsed by Jesus so had to be a genuine believer and the very first ex-Christian.

[OnceConvinced]

[DefenderofTruth]

The bible tells us about the Book of Life, which contains the names of those who have been saved and are going to Heaven. If your name does not appear you go to Hell. (Chick Tracts even have God asking the chief Angel "Does his name appear in the book of life?")

There are two issues I have with this (and topics for discussion):

1) If God is all knowing and he knows each of us personally, then why does he need a book to record our names? Santa doesn't need a book to know who's naughty and nice. He just knows. But God needs a book. Why does he need a book when he is all knowing?

2) Why a book? Wouldn't they have really amazing technology in Heaven? You'd think they'd have computers, perhaps even something superior to computers. If the bible had described some kind of metal box that contained all the names... or perhaps a flat round disk, that would go a long way to showing that the bible was divine and not just ancient man's ignorance. Imagine how huge the book would have to be! It would be mammoth. So why use a book rather than some other form of data storage?

Feel free to speculate, even if you have nothing solid.

I don't think its a question of "needs", thats a strong word that you are assuming and "needs" is not used in the scripture either... right?

and this question has kind of a literal since to it. You talk about it like its a literal book, but it is not a literal statement. In fact, I believe that is talked about in Revelations, right? Revelations is a book that was a vision... There is not a lot of literal content in revelations. The entire book is full of symbolic metaphors, and such...

I think it's easy for Christians to claim it's not a literal book, especially in this day and age where it would be just absurd. I don't see why the people at the time would think that it was symbolic though.

Revelations may be a book of symbolism, but does that mean that the book of life is? It could be but can we know for sure?

Typical,

I think it's easy for Christians to claim it's not a literal book, especially in this day and age where it would be just absurd. I don't see why the people at the time would think that it was symbolic though.

Christians can't take anything as non literal without a nonbeliever bashing on them for this. THE BOOK OF REVELATION IS COMPLETELY A RECORD OF A VISION. This book is completely depicted as a vision, with things that are not in the real world. We have every right to interpret it just as that.

And i also want to comment on "now-a-days we know stuff like that couldn't happen",
Or your quote
"especially in this day and age where it would be just absurd."

It would be absurd in TAHT DAY AND AGE TOO! Just like, 'oh now we know people can't have kids if they are virgins'. ROLF, do you think they didn't know a virgin couldn't have a child!? OF COURCE THEY DID! it doesn't matter if it is 2015 or it is 500bc, we all recognize it as a miracle.

That goes the same with 7 headed dragons..lol.. you think they didn't know that kind of stuff wasn't real back then? There is no way people looked at the book of revelation, no matter what day and age, and thought it was a literal account of something.. thats nonsense... This is a book depicting a vision that didn't take place in the physical world. It is a metaphoric book depicting the battle between good and evil.. Thats what the Book is, everyone knows it...

[OnceConvinced]

From Post 42:

Oh man, .. that's Joey for you, .. lol. So God needs a book not only to record things in, but to talk to us too, like the Bible right? But did you know that; "Words CAN hurt you!?" Really, .. I've seen this commercial where a word knocked Jessy right off his horse, .. so imagine on that Last Day when the Lord throws the entire book at ya? Ouch!

That reminds me of how Jesus doesn't seem like he's so much for the "by the book" stuff, but does seem to express the idea that love for fellow humans should temper our actions t'wards 'em when they goof.

Exactly, that's why the Jewish Religious leaders hated him so. Picking wheat, then smashing it in their hands and eating it ON THE SABBATH (OMG) while the Pharisees were watching in horror (lol) then He went on freeing a woman caught in adultery spoiling a perfectly good reason to stone somebody, then calling himself the Son of God, .. the list just goes on and on.

Yep. They clearly hated him due to his arrogance and his judgmental attitude towards them. You can just see how people are reviled on this very website when they come in with haughty attitudes, making out they're speaking on God's behalf, that they are somehow chosen by God, and then start breaking the rules, making out they're superior and acting like judgmental asses.

The Jewish leaders saw Jesus as a blasphemer. That with everything else? It's no wonder they didn't like him.

[OnceConvinced]

I think it's easy for Christians to claim it's not a literal book, especially in this day and age where it would be just absurd. I don't see why the people at the time would think that it was symbolic though.

Revelations may be a book of symbolism, but does that mean that the book of life is? It could be but can we know for sure?

Typical,

Is that supposed to be slur against me?

Typical? Why? Do you know me that well. I find that hard to believe as you haven't even been a member of this website for a month yet.

Are you upset because I question and I challenge your claims? Would you prefer I just accept everything you say as if you’re some kind of an expert?

I think it's easy for Christians to claim it's not a literal book, especially in this day and age where it would be just absurd. I don't see why the people at the time would think that it was symbolic though.

Christians can't take anything as non literal without a nonbeliever bashing on them for this.

In what way am I bashing you? I am simply challenging your claim. Is that persecution in your books?

THE BOOK OF REVELATION IS COMPLETELY A RECORD OF A VISION.

A vision of future events. Things, most of which, were not to take place until well over 2000 years. I am quite aware it's a vision so there's no need to shout.

This book is completely depicted as a vision, with things that are not in the real world.

Some of the descriptions are of things not of the real world, but some are. In fact many Christians will argue for literal interpretations of several parts of the book of Revelations. Should I take you more seriously than them?

We have every right to interpret it just as that.

Sure you have the right to take the book of Revelations any way you want. But what is your opinion is your opinion. Why should I accept your opinion? Is it considered bashing you if I don’t accept your opinion on something?

And i also want to comment on "now-a-days we know stuff like that couldn't happen",
Or your quote
"especially in this day and age where it would be just absurd."

It would be absurd in TAHT DAY AND AGE TOO! Just like, 'oh now we know people can't have kids if they are virgins'. ROLF, do you think they didn't know a virgin couldn't have a child!? OF COURCE THEY DID! it doesn't matter if it is 2015 or it is 500bc, we all recognize it as a miracle.

Yes, there is lots of absurd stuff even in what we would say were definitely literal parts of the bible. There are literal parts of the bible which are just not true in reality. Even Christians can’t agree, in many cases, what it literal and what is symbolic.

That goes the same with 7 headed dragons..lol.. you think they didn't know that kind of stuff wasn't real back then? There is no way people looked at the book of revelation, no matter what day and age, and thought it was a literal account of something.. thats nonsense... This is a book depicting a vision that didn't take place in the physical world. It is a metaphoric book depicting the battle between good and evil.. Thats what the Book is, everyone knows it...

Clearly a 7 headed dragon is not real so no one is going to claim it to be literal. At least no one in their right mind. But can you compare a 7 headed dragon to a book?

Just how much of the book of Revelations is metaphorical in your mind? And exactly how can we know for sure? And how can you verify it?

[arian]

Arain wrote

Yes, I have very little schooling, but a keen ability to understand concepts no matter its difficulty.

Objection, your honor. As citing evidence, let me present a summary of every post ever made by Arian.

''There is a non-man-made God that really means eternal consciousness linked to our inner spirit, but I'm not at all religious, ergo if I was on a spaceship traveling at C with a hammer and a string and a twin brother and a clock and an hourglass...''

LOL, .. you are funny.

Yeah, according to special relativity, if we took that hammer at 0.99999 C and threw it out the window, it would be tiny as a quark, and weigh near the mass of the entire universe, and would annihilate every star and planet in it's way! Talking about Odin's Hammer!!

Why, you don't believe in the non-man made God? Must every god be man-made? It sure seems like it since no one can understand the One True God "I Am Who I Am".

Take care Montoya.

Friendly pro-tip: If you don't understand special relativity (which you obviously don't, as evidenced by countless posts in your hand), don't write on it or even mention it in passing.

For someone whose reasoning is limited by evolution, genetic mutation, change in heritable traits of biological populations over successive generations, are you sure you want to debate special relativity with someone who is created in The Creators image, and not only is aware of it, but understands it?

OK, .. your on.

Until evidence is presented to the contrary, every ''god'' being man-made is exactly where reason leads.

OK, first question; "What reason?"
Are you talking about reason that was brought about by a chaotic accident 4.2 billion years ago from a primordial soup puddles that accumulated by rocks sweating? Or are you talking about 'reason' that was brought about by the cosmic accident that forced a quantum speck of you know not what to appear from nothing exactly 13.75 billion years ago?

OR

Since we are on the Christian Debating Forum, I can assume you mean the reason that we inherited in our mind from our Creator God The Infinite, Eternal Creative Mind/Spirit "I Am Who I Am"? Which if that's the reasoning you are talking about, then that reason can ONLY reveal the obvious, that there can be but One Creator, and He is conscious, aware of Himself, able to create, within His Infinite Mind.

Gods that have to be argued into existence or exist solely in philosophical dialogue or sleight of hand syllogisms are of no use to anyone. Present company excluded, of course.

I agree with you there; Gods that have to be argued into existence are really no use for anyone, and don't exclude yourself from that wise statement, it's true!

Thanks friend.

[arian]

[Replying to post 78 by arian]
You're shooting from the hip again, arian.

I don't know about shooting from the hip, but I do know my hip acts up and there is shooting in my hip.

Yes, I did say that Mormons correctly deduce from the Bible that each human soul already existed before birth, indeed even before conception. That's called Pre-existence.

God breathed the breath of life into Adam's body He created from the dust. THAT breath is the Spirit of God. And a teeny-tiny Spirit of God is also Infinite.

So when God took Eve out of Adam, he passed a little of that infinite spirit in him to Eve.

Now every child Eve had, Eve passed a bit of her Infinite God given to Adam spirit into each and every one of them. And this continues today, every human born gets a bit of that Infinite spirit that was originally given (breathed into) Adam.

I don't see how we pre-existed, that is we the body with the spirit, or breath of life in us, which makes us living individual souls. This is how we become individuals; born from the fathers sperm into the mothers egg, and when the egg sticks and starts a blood flow, we become a living little humans. Having taken the DNA prints from both parents, which got them from our ancestors, which over the next 9 months forms a very unique individual.
The Spirit in us originated and IS God, the Holy Spirit, which exists and has always existed. But the body is unique so the spirit/mind in each person experiences life a little different. It's awesome how God thought all this out, documented it all in His Son Word (Tree of Life) and here we are.

I'm Lutheran, but Luther was wrong to teach that the human soul arises as a product of conception (Traducianism). The usual (wrong) doctrine is that God specially creates each human soul at conception.

A soul is body and spirit/mind, so why would that be wrong that the new soul (child) is created at conception? Oh wait, yeas, not at conception (when the sperm enters the egg) because there is no blood flow yet. So if that fertilized egg doesn't get stuck in the fallopian tube and starts a blood flow, it is not yet a living soul, for "life is in the blood".

But Mormons also are wrong. Where did this pre-existent soul come from? It already existed just as Jesus taught as some earlier human being. "But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. ..Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist." (Mt.16:12ab, 13: NIV) See Elihu speaking for God in Job 33, especially verses 29 and 30, and best read in the New American Bible from verse 22 to 30.
But in your typical wildness, you're not afraid to think outside the box, even OUTSIDE YOUR OWN BOX, that someone else may have something to teach you.

I check it all out my friend, Baptist, Mormon, Calvinist, .. you name it, I listen and check it all out.


Job 33:
24
and he is gracious to that person and says to God,
‘Spare them from going down to the pit;
I have found a ransom for them—
(The Word of God, His Son)

25
let their flesh be renewed like a child’s;
let them be restored as in the days of their youth’—
(resurrection)

26
then that person can pray to God and find favor with him,
they will see God’s face and shout for joy;
he will restore them to full well-being.
(when we all get to heaven, .. Being born again, in the newness of life)

27
And they will go to others and say,
‘I have sinned, I have perverted what is right,
but I did not get what I deserved.
(repentance, Jesus as sacrifice - bailed out))

28
God has delivered me from going down to the pit,
and I shall live to enjoy the light of life.’
(born again)

29
“God does all these things to a person—
twice, even three times—
(trials as by fire, .. like gold is purified. Like job come close to dying, or wish he was dead, so is the trials of a Believer, twice and even three times for some. I can't count how many times I came near death.)

30
to turn them back from the pit,
that the light of life may shine on them.
(self explanatory)

As for becoming something else, I have already stated here recently that I have been sequentially a Methodist, agnostic, Arian, liberal Protestant. liberal Roman Catholic, Traditionalist Roman Catholic, Charismatic Renewal Roman Catholic, Episcopalian, and ELCA Lutheran, in which I currently feel ill suited. So I will likely change again. Maybe Nestorian, I don't know.

Wow, you've been around. Same here, until I left religion and became a Disciple, a follower of Christ driven by faith which is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen, (Heb 11:1) not blind faith which the dominations require because they worship deities.

Take care