Interpreting the scripture

[Peds nurse]

Hello people!!

I have talked with a couple of non believers who are somewhat disturbed when Christians claim to interpret or have more insight to scripture than they do. I am wondering why this is an issue? If we read multiple books on electric conductivity of the brain, and how various diseases interfere with that process, would we claim to know as much as a neurologist?

I don't think that Christians are claiming that nonbelievers are incompetent in any way, or that they lack the skills to interpret scripture, rather I believe it is because we as Christians, have God living in us (His Spirit), giving us discernment in how to apply and live out those scriptures in our life (New Testament).

Question for debate: Do you think it is reasonable to think that Christians have an advantage over nonbelievers in interpreting scripture? Why do some find this claim offensive?

HAPPY 4TH of JULY!!!

[Korah]

[Replying to post 1 by Peds nurse]
Thanks, PN.
Yes, I commend you for your confidence in God working through you. I don't doubt that.
Unfortunately God's work in us focuses mainly on the Good, rather than the True.
That glow we get from God we misunderstand as necessarily telling us what Christian Truth is. So how is it that there are so many denominations, many of which (basically ANY that have been around long enough) kill other Christians?
None of us should delude ourselves that we can know that other Christian denominations are false, maybe even demonic, that we can cavalierly call most other Christians not Christians at all.
This is not to say that God is not directly giving us truth at least indirectly. I so well remember (so long ago, basically 1977 to about 1980!) when I was a member of a Charismatic Renewal prayer group in which we knew God was leading the meeting. We would expect that the readings we informally came up with would relate to one another and teach us by that interaction! God had to have helped us pick out the right verses! And God did tell us that much of what we observed around us was demonic--but I don't remember that part including branding other Christian denominations as demonic. (I guess we Roman Catholics felt vulnerable on that point.)

[JoeyKnothead]

From the OP:

...
Do you think it is reasonable to think that Christians have an advantage over nonbelievers in interpreting scripture?

Only if they have God living in 'em (His Spirit), giving 'em discernment in how to apply and live out those scriptures in their life (New Testament)?

Why do some find this claim offensive?

Declaring "God lives within me so's it is, I got me a leg up on discernment" is what I find offensive, where such a claim can't be supported beyond one's own ego.

[bluethread]

Though I believe that Adonai gives me added insight and effects the timing of my learning processes, I do not make that argument, because it is anecdotal. I prefer to double check those insights and (2Tim. 2:15) "(b)e diligent to present (my)self approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." If a certain context is necessary, I try to present that and otherwise try to explain things from the prospective of the person I am talking to.

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 1 by Peds nurse]
Thanks, PN.
Yes, I commend you for your confidence in God working through you. I don't doubt that.

Unfortunately God's work in us focuses mainly on the Good, rather than the True.
That glow we get from God we misunderstand as necessarily telling us what Christian Truth is

.

Korah!!!

Isn't the truth of God, ultimately good? God's work in us cannot go against the scripture, and His work in us can only be good, regardless of how it makes us feel.

So how is it that there are so many denominations, many of which (basically ANY that have been around long enough) kill other Christians?

Can you please be more specific here? Give examples of what you are referring to?

None of us should delude ourselves that we can know that other Christian denominations are false, maybe even demonic, that we can cavalierly call most other Christians not Christians at all.

I am not debating whether or not other denominations are true or false, I am debating why some nonbelievers get frustrated when Christians claim to interpret scripture more accurately.

[bjs]

[Replying to post 1 by Peds nurse]

I have noticed this as well, and it has often confused me. Even if we take an entirely atheistic standpoint and say nothing about the Spirit of God, shouldn’t a reasonable atheist realize that someone who currently spends time studying the scriptures is likely to have a better understanding of the scriptures than someone who doesn’t?

I have read the Communist Manifesto, but I am not a Marxist. If a Marxist says, “This is the larger context of what Carl Marx was saying in this passage,� then I am likely to believe the Marxist unless I have strong reason not to. That Marxist spends his time studying the material and most likely has a better grasp on the material than I do. This doesn’t mean I don’t think for myself; it does mean that I recognize when someone would reasonably have more knowledge of a topic than I do.

Similarly, I would expect anyone who does not currently spend their time studying the Christian scriptures with the goal of understanding them to recognize that someone who does currently spend their time studying the scriptures probably knows more about those scriptures.

[Peds nurse]

From the OP:

...
Do you think it is reasonable to think that Christians have an advantage over nonbelievers in interpreting scripture?

Only if they have God living in 'em (His Spirit), giving 'em discernment in how to apply and live out those scriptures in their life (New Testament)?

Why do some find this claim offensive?

Declaring "God lives within me so's it is, I got me a leg up on discernment" is what I find offensive, where such a claim can't be supported beyond one's own ego.

Hi Joey!!

Since we are talking about scripture (interpreting), then I feel it okay to reference the Bible. Psalms 51:11 Don not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.

The Holy Spirit isn't for man to prove, but rather for God to prove His promise in man.

I am not saying that you don't have a "leg up" on discernment when it comes to financial decisions, your job or anything else, but how does it work to be offended about matters of the Spirit, when you deny His existence? (or maybe I am mistaken on that part?)

[Peds nurse]

Though I believe that Adonai gives me added insight and effects the timing of my learning processes, I do not make that argument, because it is anecdotal. I prefer to double check those insights and (2Tim. 2:15) "(b)e diligent to present (my)self approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." If a certain context is necessary, I try to present that and otherwise try to explain things from the prospective of the person I am talking to.

Great point Bluethread!

I asked this question so that I could gain perspective, and hopefully allow others to do the same!

[Zzyzx]

.
[Replying to post 1 by Peds nurse]

If Christians have greater ability to understand or "interpret" scripture WHY do they disagree with one another on nearly every aspect of the Bible? Why are there 40,000 different "superior" interpretations producing splinter groups / denominations?

I have a fair command of the English language and ability to interpret what I read and do not hesitate to research many topics. When a Bible tale tells of the Earth being flooded "to the tops of mountains" I do not accept that as truthful and accurate. The first Christian that comes along may say that I am wrong because their superior powers granted by spirits or gods in return for fervent belief allows them to know that actually happened long ago.

The next Christian may agree that the Earth was not flooded (or flooded only "locally" which does not fit the Genesis tale) BUT the tale is "metaphorical" and that I just don't understand the hidden "message" that their superior powers allow them to correctly "interpret" for me.

Both base their claims of knowledge upon "proper" reading of scriptures and perhaps proclaim that I haven't studied scripture as much as they have (which is often questionable).

HOWEVER, I base my position on a decade of advanced study of Earth science and another decade teaching the subject at undergraduate and graduate level. Still Bible Believers often want to argue that their knowledge of Earth events is superior even though it is evident that their "study" of such things does not go beyond scripture (augmented perhaps by television shows and creationist websites and maybe a high school science class).

Many of the same people attempt to "interpret" (and "debunk") evolution without studying the subject. They also claim that dead bodies came back to life (once upon a time) in direct conflict with what is known by forensic biologists.

In other words, the Non-Believer is not qualified to "interpret scripture" but Believers are not only qualified to do that but also to "interpret" geology, biology and genetics.

Perhaps this is a lopsided view of one's capabilities and an over-estimation of powers granted by spirits and gods.

[Divine Insight]

Question for debate: Do you think it is reasonable to think that Christians have an advantage over nonbelievers in interpreting scripture?

No. And the reason is quite simple. Their apologetic excuses for the religion simply don't hold water.

Of Christian had a better understanding of scripture than I have then they should be able to explain that understanding in a rational intelligent way. But I've never met a Christian to date who could do that.

Moreover, everyone who claims to be a Christian doesn't agree on their special gifted interpretations. So clearly they aren't being guided by an magical God or "Holy Spirit" because if they were then they would all have the same understanding.

Why do some find this claim offensive?

I never find this "offensive", in part because I don't give much credence to the opinions of people who think this way. Why should I care what they think?

However, if they become obnoxiously arrogant about it, it can become quite sickening. But being sickened by a religious zealot is hardly the same as being offended by them.

I just see this kind of argument as being unimpressive and extremely weak.

In fact, I see it as a "last straw" attempt by people who simply can't defend the actual scriptures. It's an "easy out". All they need to do is proclaim that they understand it and their opponent doesn't understand it and isn't even capable of understanding it, and so they have "freed" themselves from the impossible task of having to actually defend it.

This might work as a "self-delusion" for people who want to pretend that they can justify their beliefs. But it's not going to work as an effective apologetic argument.