Interpreting the scripture

[Peds nurse]

Hello people!!

I have talked with a couple of non believers who are somewhat disturbed when Christians claim to interpret or have more insight to scripture than they do. I am wondering why this is an issue? If we read multiple books on electric conductivity of the brain, and how various diseases interfere with that process, would we claim to know as much as a neurologist?

I don't think that Christians are claiming that nonbelievers are incompetent in any way, or that they lack the skills to interpret scripture, rather I believe it is because we as Christians, have God living in us (His Spirit), giving us discernment in how to apply and live out those scriptures in our life (New Testament).

Question for debate: Do you think it is reasonable to think that Christians have an advantage over nonbelievers in interpreting scripture? Why do some find this claim offensive?

HAPPY 4TH of JULY!!!

[Peds nurse]

Question for debate: Do you think it is reasonable to think that Christians have an advantage over nonbelievers in interpreting scripture?

No. And the reason is quite simple. Their apologetic excuses for the religion simply don't hold water.

Of Christian had a better understanding of scripture than I have then they should be able to explain that understanding in a rational intelligent way. But I've never met a Christian to date who could do that.

Moreover, everyone who claims to be a Christian doesn't agree on their special gifted interpretations. So clearly they aren't being guided by an magical God or "Holy Spirit" because if they were then they would all have the same understanding.

I am wondering if it isn't because we understand differently, but our focus is different? Here me out for a minute...

According to the Bible, God made each of us, and all of us are uniquely different. We all have different gifts and talents. If my gift is evangelizing, then my focus on scripture will come from that angle. If my gift is service, then my focus will come from that perspective.

Would you not agree that personalities, experiences, and our gifts, affect our ability to interpret various data? Why do we go to a movie and some like it, some don't, some remembered certain scenes, while others remembered something completely different?

Why do some find this claim offensive?

I never find this "offensive", in part because I don't give much credence to the opinions of people who think this way. Why should I care what they think?

[OnceConvinced]

Ok, I just had to jump in here from my usual non-believing perspective. I could not just let it go.

Hello people!!

I have talked with a couple of non believers who are somewhat disturbed when Christians claim to interpret or have more insight to scripture than they do.

This seems like a rather haughty statement to me. What makes you think that you have more insight into scripture than they do? Are you quite sure about that, or is it just your opinion?

I for one can't understand why anyone would be disturbed if they came across someone who knew more about something than they do. Not unless they have some serious ego problems.

I am wondering why this is an issue? ]

Perhaps the issue is that you are putting yourself up on a pedestal. Seeing yourself as superior to others and others are offended by that.

If we read multiple books on electric conductivity of the brain, and how various diseases interfere with that process, would we claim to know as much as a neurologist?

The bible is not some branch of science that is being researched. It's a book that is open to many different interpretations. Just because someone doesn't agree with your take on it, doesn't mean that they are misunderstanding it or that your interpretation is superior to their's. Just because you are a Christian, does not make you an expert on the bible.

I don't think that Christians are claiming that nonbelievers are incompetent in any way, or that they lack the skills to interpret scripture,

Just that they are somehow superior to the non-believer?

rather I believe it is because we as Christians, have God living in us (His Spirit), giving us discernment in how to apply and live out those scriptures in our life (New Testament).

And this is one of the issues. It's the claims that you are somehow more special than the non-Christian. That you have some kind of super power within you that somehow makes your interpretation of scripture superior to any others. But the problem is every Christian claims to have this super power within them, but yet none of them can agree with each other. It seems that your super power is no better than any other Christian's.

The fact is that no Christian can show they have discernment because none of them can agree. Surely you can understand why some non-believers might be disturbed when you claim to have some kind of superiority that they don't have. It just reeks of arrogance.

Question for debate: Do you think it is reasonable to think that Christians have an advantage over nonbelievers in interpreting scripture?

No, I don't think it's reasonable at all. There is no unity among believers, so any claims they have superior understanding seems like empty claims to us non-believers. If they had the holy spirit and the discernment they would be in unity.

There are non-beleivers on this site who have spent many decades studying the bible. Some were even Christians for many years. So when Christians come along... some who have not been Christians very long... and claim to have superior understanding, it just seems completely arrogant. When I look at many of the non-believers on this site I see far greater understanding of the bible than I do of many of the Christians.

Why do some find this claim offensive?

Because it just seems so highly arrogant. Someone claiming to be superior to someone else who's views on the bible are just as relevant.

[OnceConvinced]

I am wondering if it isn't because we understand differently, but our focus is different? Here me out for a minute...

According to the Bible, God made each of us, and all of us are uniquely different. We all have different gifts and talents. If my gift is evangelizing, then my focus on scripture will come from that angle. If my gift is service, then my focus will come from that perspective.

Would you not agree that personalities, experiences, and our gifts, affect our ability to interpret various data? Why do we go to a movie and some like it, some don't, some remembered certain scenes, while others remembered something completely different?

Then the holy spirit is worthless.

If the holy spirit is there, then it should be guiding you to the correct interpretation and preventing you from allowing other influences to taint what you are reading. If every true Christian has this spirit, this super power, then there should be unity. But even within denominations, even among people with the same focus, the unity is not there. Thus the need for bible discussion groups and meetings where you can discuss exactly what the bible means. (and even then you don't normally end up in agreement).

Any claims of holy spirit discernment become nothing more than a fantasy because of this lack of unity.

If the holy spirit is not able to bring unity when it comes to understanding the bible, then it's either very weak and pathetic or its non existent. What we really have is just believers all with differing opinions and perspectives, all tainted by their own preconceived ideas and experiences. Understanding that is clearly no more superior to that of non-Christians.

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 17 by Stonez]

A non believer reads and studies the bible for no other reason but to understand it. The person of faith reads it to strengthen their faith and help them feel better about themselves. That to me is not a good way to study the bible.

Hello Stonez!!

I have to disagree with these statements. Christians study the Bible to understand the character of God. Faith is built when we put this understanding to practical use in our lives and in the lives of others.

[Peds nurse]

I am wondering if it isn't because we understand differently, but our focus is different? Here me out for a minute...

According to the Bible, God made each of us, and all of us are uniquely different. We all have different gifts and talents. If my gift is evangelizing, then my focus on scripture will come from that angle. If my gift is service, then my focus will come from that perspective.

Would you not agree that personalities, experiences, and our gifts, affect our ability to interpret various data? Why do we go to a movie and some like it, some don't, some remembered certain scenes, while others remembered something completely different?

Then the holy spirit is worthless.

If the holy spirit is there, then it should be guiding you to the correct interpretation and preventing you from allowing other influences to taint what you are reading. If every true Christian has this spirit, this super power, then there should be unity. But even within denominations, even among people with the same focus, the unity is not there. Thus the need for bible discussion groups and meetings where you can discuss exactly what the bible means. (and even then you don't normally end up in agreement).

Any claims of holy spirit discernment become nothing more than a fantasy because of this lack of unity.

If the holy spirit is not able to bring unity when it comes to understanding the bible, then it's either very weak and pathetic or its non existent. What we really have is just believers all with differing opinions and perspectives, all tainted by their own preconceived ideas and experiences. Understanding that is clearly no more superior to that of non-Christians.

It is true that our own agenda's do get in the way of our understanding, but that does not mean that God isn't creating unity.

Talking and meeting for Bible Study is good because it draws us nearer to not only God, but each other. God doesn't have some program that punches out Christians to be all the same. We are different, and we have different thoughts, but that does not mean the Spirit isn't working.

[arian]

I am wondering if it isn't because we understand differently, but our focus is different? Here me out for a minute...

According to the Bible, God made each of us, and all of us are uniquely different. We all have different gifts and talents. If my gift is evangelizing, then my focus on scripture will come from that angle. If my gift is service, then my focus will come from that perspective.

Would you not agree that personalities, experiences, and our gifts, affect our ability to interpret various data? Why do we go to a movie and some like it, some don't, some remembered certain scenes, while others remembered something completely different?

Then the holy spirit is worthless.

If the holy spirit is there, then it should be guiding you to the correct interpretation and preventing you from allowing other influences to taint what you are reading. If every true Christian has this spirit, this super power, then there should be unity. But even within denominations, even among people with the same focus, the unity is not there. Thus the need for bible discussion groups and meetings where you can discuss exactly what the bible means. (and even then you don't normally end up in agreement).

Any claims of holy spirit discernment become nothing more than a fantasy because of this lack of unity.

If the holy spirit is not able to bring unity when it comes to understanding the bible, then it's either very weak and pathetic or its non existent. What we really have is just believers all with differing opinions and perspectives, all tainted by their own preconceived ideas and experiences. Understanding that is clearly no more superior to that of non-Christians.

It is true that our own agenda's do get in the way of our understanding, but that does not mean that God isn't creating unity.

I have to agree with OnceConvinced here, he hit the nail right on the head: "Then the holy spirit is worthless.

If the holy spirit is there, then it should be guiding you to the correct interpretation and preventing you from allowing other influences to taint what you are reading. If every true Christian has this spirit, this super power, then there should be unity."

The only unity that I have seen between all the denominations I attended (JW's, 7th-Day Adv. Catholic, different Baptists, Presbyterian, Church of Christ, Apostolic Nazarene the Old country, US Nazarene, The Two by Twos (German), Calvary Chapel (Chuck Smith and Chuck Missler Ca.) also some Calvary Chapel here in AZ, conversations with Westboro Baptist Church leaders, and many other non-Denominational churches is that they all believe in a Triune-plural-god, another words a plural-god who is one - but many, at least three, which according to the Bible is the demon Legion.

They also agree on that our Creator is a Devine being who resides in the supernatural realm.
Also that to get to be a high paying Christian Minister one has to go to a school of Divinity, or a Trinity College to get a degree in 'Divination'.
They all agree (except for the JW's) that we must obey our Leaders because God appointed them, no matter what religion he/she/it may be, what multi gender or whatever his/her/its purpose in attacking another country is, even if it too is a Christian Country, they are to 'OBEY'.
But hey, .. "What would Jesus do?" right?

Well I can tell you this much; first, Jesus would never send a Deity from the supernatural realm to lead any Christian army with guns and nukes into battle, that's absolutely sure! Not Bible Jesus anyways.

So yes, they (all the Christian Religious Denominations) are very united on that, so how can Gods Holy Spirit, another words, 'God' be keeping unity? That is NOT the Holy Spirit that's keeping unity on the above mentioned doctrines, but Lucifer and the anti-Christ.

Talking and meeting for Bible Study is good because it draws us nearer to not only God, but each other.

So does a big pot-luck without even a mention of God. I have been to so many different denominational Bible studies that I lost count many years ago, and I testify before you all here, .. my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, before all the Holy Angels, all in the presence of our One, the only One Possible the Infinite and Eternal Creative Mind/Spirit "I Am Who I Am" God that the God that the Christian Religions worship is NOT our God of the Bible, but the very opposite. It is the god of this world Lucifer, the Devil that they bow in servitude and worship!

All the denominations already made a pact with the Jesuit (who were always Luciferian) Pope to be One, since for the past 1,700 years they all worshipped the same Deity, a created fallen Angel, who man has chosen as their god of this world; Lucifer/Satan/that serpent the Devil.

There, I said it, now Christians themselves can get on the Ban-wagon to ban me from this Forum (of course if that is 'my' Gods will, .. I already know what Satan's will is for me!)

God doesn't have some program that punches out Christians to be all the same. We are different, and we have different thoughts, but that does not mean the Spirit isn't working.

I doubt that is the 'difference' that OnceConvinced was pointing out!? Yes we are all different, but supposed to be of the same mind, which is of Christ. So either we "turn the other cheek" or blow our enemies unarmed old men, women and children to kingdom-come, bypassing all rules of war, going as low as any human can go to kill entire cities of innocent unarmed civilians (Hiroshima and Nagasaki) in the name of 'Christ'! I mean right there should tell any so called Christian that read the New Testament just ONCE that that is NOT what Jesus would do.

Wake up people, because God has provided just about everything for us to study His Word. There is no longer any excuse. I, an unschooled idiot has every Bible (minus the satanic ones) and commentary, Bible dictionary available, and now it's on line, so anyone can look up Scripture, any word or phrase in seconds. Is your vision poor? Just turn on the audio Bible and choose who you want to read for you, .. dramatized or not!

So as OnceConvinced said, I also agree that we Christians should not be so different as we are today!? And so confused on who our Creator God is to bow down to idols, or give ear to divining spirits! And what's even worse, is that Christians go to school to get a degree in Divination to become 'diviners' to these demonic spirits!

So who is a Christian? Is it someone who got baptized (infant or not) in the Christian Religion in the name of some triune gods, .. or the one who was baptized by Gods Holy Spirit in the "Newness of their Minds"?

And I can tell you this, that no certified "Minister-Diviner" who worships a sun-god amongst the three gods will be able to give you the 'Holy Spirit' by the laying on of his hand. Oh you will receive a spirit alright, the spirit of confusion, which will instruct you to go against Jesus own teachings. Against God Himself! So please, people, take another good look at the scripture and see what it really says without the religious blinders on! Your eternal life is riding on this, and most likely your loved ones too!?

[Korah]

[Replying to post 26 by arian]
Well, thanks arian,
For a post so far out in right field (or left, depends on one's view of Restorationists, I guess) that you gave me no temptation to "Amen" it (oh, "like" is the "word" here) and get in even more trouble with the Mod Squad. I'm getting to the point that I won't cry when you get kicked out of here.
Maybe as heartfelt autobiographical confession you can get away with it?
We need more guys (and gals) like you around here. Can't you make it easier on us to be able to put up with you?
God bless, arian (or, or you JW enough that I should have said, like I do to my sister and her husband, "Jehovah bless you").

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 26 by arian]

For a post so far out in right field ...
... and get in even more trouble with the Mod Squad. I'm getting to the point that I won't cry when you get kicked out of here.
....Can't you make it easier on us to be able to put up with you?

Moderator Warning

This is a purely personal attack and presents no argument about "Interpreting Scripture," the debate topic. Please, just argue the issues without reference to others or the moderating team.

Please review our Rules.

______________

Moderator warnings count as a strike against users. Additional violations in the future may warrant a final warning. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[Korah]

[Replying to post 28 by Danmark]
I'm not replying to that. Not replying, no sir.
I have to admit I quickly checked whether I had been banned yet.

[OnceConvinced]

It is true that our own agenda's do get in the way of our understanding,

That then means that our minds are stronger than the power of the holy spirit. And if our own agenda or mind trumps the holy spirit, what advantage is the holy spirit? Exactly how is it bringing you the correct understanding of scripture if your own agenda usurps it?

So really you have no advantage over the non-believer as your agenda makes mincemeat of the holy spirit every time.

but that does not mean that God isn't creating unity.

Well let's see that unity then. Let's see it simply with the Christian members of this here website.

Talking and meeting for Bible Study is good because it draws us nearer to not only God, but each other. God doesn't have some program that punches out Christians to be all the same. We are different, and we have different thoughts, but that does not mean the Spirit isn't working.

But yet our agenda trumps the holy spirit every time. So anyone claiming to have the holy spirit guiding them and giving them correct understanding is kidding themselves.

Or perhaps you are the one Christian in a million that doesn't have an agenda? That is not influenced by mindsets or past experience?