Why the delay in Christ's return?

[2Dbunk]

As a former Christian it has been my understanding that Jesus Christ is an all-loving, compassionate personal God (or Son of God). And above all the good things attributed to him there is one supreme caveat that hangs like the sword of Damocles over our heads: that Heaven is only achievable to those who believe in him – indeed, those who don’t will be condemned to everlasting fire and brimstone.

Also, the New Testament tells us that Christ’s departure from Earth 2,000 years ago will be short-lived and his return is imminent . . . to take up to Heaven all those who follow Him – that “few will be chosen.�

My question for debate is: Knowing “few will be chosen,� why is there such a delay in his return? As the years go by and the world’s population at about 7 billion people, it is obvious that proportionately more and more will not "be chosen.� How can an all-loving, understanding god consign more and more of his created children to hell each passing day, especially in these times of exponentially increasing knowledge and more doubt of what supernatural things to believe.

Can anyone posit a reason why the delay in the Second Coming?

[JehovahsWitness]

Also, the New Testament tells us that Christ’s departure from Earth 2,000 years ago will be short-lived and his return is imminent . . .

You will have to provide a reference of this statement in order to establish the premise upon with a presumption of "delay" is based.

Regards,
JW

TO DELAY: verb (used with object)

1. to put off to a later time; defer; postpone

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/delay

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 1 by 2Dbunk]

Beautiful 2Dbunk,

The reason Christ has not come back yet, is that it is not finished. Although there are those who deny Him during their life time, we cannot judge where they are on their death bed. It matters not the hour of those who come to Him, He is just grateful that they showed up! So, this blessed world goes around and around. The sun comes up, and it goes down, and God will give everyone the opportunity to know Him, for He wishes none to perish.

Have a wonderful day!

[Zzyzx]

.

The reason Christ has not come back yet, is that it is not finished. Although there are those who deny Him during their life time, we cannot judge where they are on their death bed. It matters not the hour of those who come to Him, He is just grateful that they showed up! So, this blessed world goes around and around. The sun comes up, and it goes down, and God will give everyone the opportunity to know Him, for He wishes none to perish.

Is this to say that no matter what one does in "this life" if they "get right with God" on (or after?) their death bed they will be "saved?"

[2ndpillar]

Also, the New Testament tells us that Christ’s departure from Earth 2,000 years ago will be short-lived and his return is imminent . . .

You will have to provide a reference of this statement in order to establish the premise upon with a presumption of "delay" is based.

Regards,
JW

TO DELAY: verb (used with object)

1. to put off to a later time; defer; postpone

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/delay

Dear 2d,
The time was set per Hosea 5 & 6, The lord would "return to my place (heaven)" (Hosea 5:15), and return after Ephraim and the house of Judah "seek my face". That would happen after 2 days/ 2 thousand years (Hosea 6:2) We are the "end of the age" when the house of Judah will shortly "acknowledge their guilt and seek my face." (Hosea 5:15)

[Peds nurse]

.

The reason Christ has not come back yet, is that it is not finished. Although there are those who deny Him during their life time, we cannot judge where they are on their death bed. It matters not the hour of those who come to Him, He is just grateful that they showed up! So, this blessed world goes around and around. The sun comes up, and it goes down, and God will give everyone the opportunity to know Him, for He wishes none to perish.

Is this to say that no matter what one does in "this life" if they "get right with God" on (or after?) their death bed they will be "saved?"

Hi Mr. Z, and friend

For all who believe in Jesus will be saved, no matter of the hour on which they call His name. There is a parable in the Bible referring to this very thing. I'm not going to post it, but it talks about no matter the hours worked, the same wages are given. This is not to say, that there won't be accountability. For we all will have to give an account for every deed and word uttered.

God knows those who have sincere hearts.

Hope that helps!!!

[Ancient of Years]

Also, the New Testament tells us that Christ’s departure from Earth 2,000 years ago will be short-lived and his return is imminent . . .

You will have to provide a reference of this statement in order to establish the premise upon with a presumption of "delay" is based.

Regards,
JW

TO DELAY: verb (used with object)

1. to put off to a later time; defer; postpone

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/delay

Paul believed that he and at least some of his readers would still be alive when Jesus returned.

1 Corinthians 15
51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4
13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

The three Synoptic Gospels also indicate a belief in a near term return of Jesus.

Mark 8,9
8:38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels.�
9:1 And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, [some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.�

Matthew 16
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.�

Luke 9
26 Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.
27 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.�

Each of these refer to the Son of Man returning in glory with angels while some of his listeners are still alive. In Matthew and Luke it is only the disciples that Jesus is speaking to.

These tie directly into the Olivet Discourse imagery that appears in all three Synoptic Gospels – The Son of Man coming in glory with angels and some people of the time of Jesus still alive.

Mark 13

26 “At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

28 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 29 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. 30 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.


Matthew 24

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.


Luke 21

27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.�

29 He told them this parable: “Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30 When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.

32 “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

The fig tree image and the things that will happen as signs are references to the destruction of Jerusalem, which took place in 70 CE. There are apparent references to the persecutions of Christians by the Jewish authorities and the Neronian persecution as happening before that, as indeed they did. See Mark 13 Matthew 21 Luke 21

There is no doubt that the original expectation was that Jesus would return soon, while some of the people from his era were still living. This would get changed as time went on.

Mark was probably written shortly after 70 CE, Matthew and Luke 10 or 15 years later. If Jesus is to have said those things around 30 CE or so some people around at that time could still be alive. John was not written until near the end of the 1st century. The expected short term return of Jesus still has not happened and the “not taste death� and “this generation� promises are no longer credible. John makes no mention of them and omits the Olivet Discourse as well. It is stated that Jesus will return some unspecified time in the future but no details are supplied.

The phrase “never taste death� (a subtle variation) appears in John but in a different context.

John 8
52 At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death�

“Never taste death� is a reference to eternal life, which is promised to those who live righteously. It does not mean not suffering mortal death and Paul and the Synoptic Gospels are concerned with. It refers to the afterlife. John has pointedly changed the meaning to avoid the delay issue.

John 21

19 Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, “Follow me!�

20 Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, “Lord, who is going to betray you?�) 21 When Peter saw him, he asked, “Lord, what about him?�

22 Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.� 23 Because of this, the rumor spread among the believers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?�

In John the “not taste death� expectation was merely a mistake, a false rumor having nothing to do with when Jesus will return. In this way John explains the unexpected delay in the return of Jesus. It should never have been expected so soon in the first place.

Chapter 21 of John is generally considered a later add-on, after the apparent ending in Chapter 20. John 21 refers to the author of the Gospel in the third person.

John 21
24 This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true.

Reading between the lines we might infer a special reason for changing the broader context of the “not taste death� passages to the very specific context of “the disciple whom Jesus loved� over and above the passage of too much time. The message seems to be that the author of the Gospel, supposedly the beloved disciple traditionally called John, the last link to the living Jesus, has now died. And Jesus has not returned.

Acts, also written around the end of the first century, also changes the expectation but in a more sophisticated fashion than John. Acts transforms the expected return of Jesus into the descent of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, with an angel telling the Apostles to stop looking for Jesus in the clouds. But I have written at length on that recently and will not repeat myself so soon.

[JehovahsWitness]

Mark 8,9
8:38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels.� �

Where are the TIME REFERENCES to the first century in this scripture? The scripture only says that the son of man would be "ashamed of them" it does NOT state that he would find them still alive. To illustrate: I should think that present day Americans are ashamed of their forefathers that owned slaves. This does not mean those slave owners expected to be alive in 2015 or that modern day americans expect to find any of those slave owners still alive.

There is no indication of expectations in terms of time on the part of the generation being referred to or of the time frame when the "son of man" would "come" (returen).

OQD: The New Testament tells us that Christ’s departure from Earth 2,000 years ago will be short-lived and his return is imminent

JW

[Willum]

Another thing to consider is the "who cares," factor.

Just how many years from the Eden Armageddon, or the apple-bite and all that suffering, the birth of Jesus, the return of Jesus, etc., before any reasonable human being is legitimately able to say, "God your plan sucks."
Or alternatively, the "alternative to your plan sucks."

What is a legitimate interval to excusably, look God in the eye and say, "Hey, I lost faith."? For me, I'd say 3/4 of a lifetime is reasonable.

At least barring a miracle or two.

Haven't we, after eating the apple, done enough damage, that either we, or God, should say; "You turkeys' should quit it now, stuff isn't going to get better, and worse is rather like dry-heaves."

[tam]

As a former Christian it has been my understanding that Jesus Christ is an all-loving, compassionate personal God (or Son of God). And above all the good things attributed to him there is one supreme caveat that hangs like the sword of Damocles over our heads: that Heaven is only achievable to those who believe in him – indeed, those who don’t will be condemned to everlasting fire and brimstone.

I cannot agree with the above, certainly not regarding fire and brimstone at all, but that might be another thread. I will try to stick with what I think you are actually asking about.

Also, the New Testament tells us that Christ’s departure from Earth 2,000 years ago will be short-lived and his return is imminent . . . to take up to Heaven all those who follow Him – that “few will be chosen.�

Christ said that no one knows the day or hour, not even Him. People certainly hope for his return in their lifetimes, and many have made false predictions, but the truth of the matter is that Christ Himself did not know.

My question for debate is: Knowing “few will be chosen,� why is there such a delay in his return?

Because not all of those 'few'; or rather not all of the elect (those predestined) have yet been given a chance to come to Him (perhaps not having been born yet).

God knows His own. They are born throughout different time periods, but they are the same generation - in that they are sons of the Kingdom; all belonging to Christ; the same seed.

And until they have all been born and are at least able to come to Christ, the door is also open to ANYONE. So anyone can come to Christ, even if they are not of the elect.

So we wait... and if we were waiting for one of your (general your) loved ones (even a child/grandchild not yet born), you would probably be thankful for the mercy. I would be.

**

These ones who are chosen, these ones who belong to Christ, are the ones who will rule with Christ in His Kingdom, as kings and priests. They are Christians, the Body and Bride of Christ.

But there are also subjects of the Kingdom, and these ones are NOT Christian, and so not the Body and Bride of Christ. Instead these are those people who do good to even the least of Christ's brothers (unknowingly doing good to Christ - from the sheep and the goats parable). They do so because the law of love is upon their hearts, and so they do naturally the requirements of that law. Paul wrote about them as well.

So there are those who are in Christ - who rules as kings and priests with him for a thousand years. There are also the subjects of the Kingdom, and these are people from the nations - not Christians. Such as the sheep from the parable of the sheep and goats.


Christianity - for the most part - does not teach this. Because Christianity does not know the fullness of the love and the mercy of Jah, the Most Holy One of Israel, the God and Father of Christ. So it is hidden from them.

Can anyone posit a reason why the delay in the Second Coming?

[/quote]


Mercy and love - to the elect, who might not yet all be born; and to anyone else, because a delay means that the door is open, and that anyone may yet come to Christ.



Because there is no need to fear this 'fire and brimstone'... it does not matter how many more are being born and not coming to Christ. Because those not in Christ can still enter the Kingdom as SUBJECTS of the Kingdom, on the basis of the love in their hearts, made manifest in how they treat others (which will inevitably at some point include how they treat even a least one of Christ's brothers. They don't do it for gain; they don't even know that they are doing it to Christ. They do it because that is how they treat all people)


It is like when the two angels went into Sodom and Gomorrah. If someone had shown them mercy, and love, then they would have been spared (perhaps the entire city if at least ten had been righteous so as to treat them with love and mercy) But there was only Lot.




Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy