Why Must Morality Be Objective?

Ethics, Morality, and Sin

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rookiebatman
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Why Must Morality Be Objective?

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Post by rookiebatman »

I watch a lot of debates between theists and atheists, and one point that comes up a lot (especially by William Lane Craig, who unfortunately has done a lot of debates) is the Argument from Morality, that without God, we couldn't have an objective sense of morality. The thing that I don't get is, they act like saying "if atheists are right, then morality would only be subjective" somehow proves their point. It seems to me that theists are presupposing that morality is objective, and so they would conclude that any system which indicates subjective morality must therefore be false. But why? Where's the support for the initial premise that morality is objective? Not that it should be, or that the world would be better if it was, but that objective morality is a known and accepted fact, which means that any line of thought which leads to subjective morality must be false.

Also, as a preemptive follow-up question, if you believe that morality is objective, how do you rectify that with the observable fact that people can't agree on what that objective morality is? Even people who say that the Bible is the objective source for morality can't agree on interpretations and nuances and what parts of the Old Testament should still be followed or not.
Last edited by rookiebatman on Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Logicaloutreach
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Re: Why Must Morality Be Objective?

Post #61

Post by Logicaloutreach »

[Replying to rookiebatman]

According to the bible all the laws and morals are based on three points of balance in order for human life to be possible.
#1.) Love God. ( Honor and loyalty to the source of all human life.)

#2.) Love yourself (honor Gods temple.)

#3.) Love your neighbor ( still honoring Gods temple.)

Donray
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Post #62

Post by Donray »

I don't understand how God has any objective moral values!!!!

If I am not mistaken God/Jesus forgives anything that they feel like. If a person has sex out of marriage (a moral value) they would forgiven just by asking forgiveness and they will go to heaven. No punishment.

So what are the objective moral values that are never forgiven by God. i.e God will always send you to hell no matter what or how much one prays for forgiveness.

If God forgives something it is NOT and objective moral value, it is subjective

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anontheist
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Values vs. forgiveness

Post #63

Post by anontheist »

[Replying to post 62 by Donray]

I have to agree. You can't suggest morality is objective and then say all sins are to be forgiven by simply accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

Objectivity no longer matters with morality if all is forgiven.
I only want to believe what is true.

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wiploc
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Post #64

Post by wiploc »

Pazuzu bin Hanbi wrote: I think the point is that if morality is subjective then on what authority do we impose it? If it isn't objective then why should we follow it?
How is that relevant? If an objective morality required rape, why should we follow it? If a subjective morality forbade rape, why should we disregard it?

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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Why Must Morality Be Objective?

Post #65

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 61 by Logicaloutreach]

Human life is possible by disregarding God's moral code but I believe life would be better if people respected the principles you outlined.

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Justin108
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Re: Why Must Morality Be Objective?

Post #66

Post by Justin108 »

rookiebatman wrote: I watch a lot of debates between theists and atheists, and one point that comes up a lot (especially by William Lane Craig, who unfortunately has done a lot of debates) is the Argument from Morality, that without God, we couldn't have an objective sense of morality. The thing that I don't get is, they act like saying "if atheists are right, then morality would only be subjective" somehow proves their point. It seems to me that theists are presupposing that morality is objective, and so they would conclude that any system which indicates subjective morality must therefore be false. But why? Where's the support for the initial premise that morality is objective? Not that it should be, or that the world would be better if it was, but that objective morality is a known and accepted fact, which means that any line of thought which leads to subjective morality must be false.

Also, as a preemptive follow-up question, if you believe that morality is objective, how do you rectify that with the observable fact that people can't agree on what that objective morality is? Even people who say that the Bible is the objective source for morality can't agree on interpretations and nuances and what parts of the Old Testament should still be followed or not.
Objective morality is preferable, but not more likely. Basing your belief on preference as William Lane Craig does is irrational

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wiploc
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Re: Why Must Morality Be Objective?

Post #67

Post by wiploc »

Justin108 wrote: Objective morality is preferable...
Why?

Closingaccountreadgmailna
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Post #68

Post by Closingaccountreadgmailna »

Donray wrote: I don't understand how God has any objective moral values!!!!

If I am not mistaken God/Jesus forgives anything that they feel like. If a person has sex out of marriage (a moral value) they would forgiven just by asking forgiveness and they will go to heaven. No punishment.
You are wrong. One has to repent and correct his mistakes. Going into confession with sin, you can be forgiven, but Jesus also says Sin no more. So going out of confession and doing the same sin shows lack of remorse on our part (if we do that) and that stops us from receving grace.

I cannot walk my faith doing mistakes when I know what is good and what is wrong.

So if murder is sin (and it is) and I know it, but I also know I can be forgiven, will I want to offend God? Do I know consequences? Mortal sin brings us closer to hell. Do I want to see satan in this life? No. Do I want God to send me, where my actions are? Yes. Doing good and bringing myself closer to God and not the evil one, which is satan.

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