Why would God need a hell?

mickiel · Post by **mickiel** » Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:46 pm

As I consider God, its hard for me to consider him needing a place like hell? The Christian concept of eternal hell punishing is a barbaric thing to consider. Why would God need to punish a human for all of eternity. Lets just say a human does not believe in God, and they live that way for 80 years; they die and according to many interpretations of hell , they will be brought back to life; judged, then banished to an eternity of living suffering in this hell.

I mean that punishment does not even fit the crime; 80 years of living, now they must live forever in suffering? Why?

Why would a God even need to do that?

marco · Post by **marco** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:30 pm

ttruscott wrote:
marco wrote:
ttruscott wrote:
Since the word GOD and the name YHWH refer to the UNITY of the 3 Divine Persons, GOD is ONE - echad just like Adam knowing Eve made them ONE - echad, in flesh though they remained two in fact: Genesis 2:24... a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

I think you've chosen a bad illustration of your argument, ttruscott. Man and wife may figuratively become one flesh, or may well be one flesh at particularly intimate periods, but they remain TWO people.

That is EXACTLY my point - three divine people unified as one GOD! The unity of two people would make ONE married couple... The unity of divine attributes would be different form the unity of human attributes since the human unity is just a symbol only slightly stronger than metaphor, while the GODly unity is the fact behind the symbol.

I think somewhere in the wrapping we have what is called an error.
You are saying "we have three divine PEOPLE and one GOD". This is NOT a description of THE Trinity. It is a description of a triad - three things constituting one unit.
The Trinity is impossible to explain in logical terms and though you have attempted the impossible, sadly but not surprisingly, you've not achieved it.

The three component parts of the Trinity are in fact GOD, each one. Yes, it is nice to say that two people form ONE couple; three beings form ONE God. This is not how the Trinity operates. We have God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Under anyone's logic this adds up to three Gods. That it makes only one God is what makes it a mystery.
A mystery is a truth which is above reason, but revealed by God.

St Patrick attempted to show people what the Trinity meant by holding up a shamrock with three leaves. He may have miraculously expelled the snakes from Ireland but he didn't explain the Trinity.

mickiel · Post by **mickiel** » Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:37 pm

Why would God need a hell, when if he wanted to imprison humans, he could just use the jails we have already constructed.

Oh, excuse me, they would not last forever. Maybe he could just keep rebuilding them?

mickiel · Post by **mickiel** » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:53 am

Why would God need a hell, when he could use the one the Christians have constructed?

mickiel · Post by **mickiel** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 8:23 am

Why would God need a hell? Hey, why waste good meat? He could roast the unbelievers for 1,000 years and then cut them up and barbecue them , then feed them to the animals in heaven.

mickiel · Post by **mickiel** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:37 am

Why would God need a hell, when he could just give everyone a second chance?

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:08 pm

mickiel wrote: Why would God need a hell, when he could just give everyone a second chance?

1.
When a sin is committed against GOD, the sinner becomes evil and cannot cure himself because he is corrupt....sort of like a computer with corrupt code cannot analyze the error because the error is what it now is. He is now addicted to evil and at heart thinks GOD's evil is good and GOD's good is evil. By rejecting GOD's offer to cure their sin because they decided he was a false god, there was no such thing as evil and they didn't need curing anyway, they put themselves outside of HIS grace and love forever so their evil is eternal.

2.
GOD promised the heavenly marriage to all who would accept HIS deity and HIS promise of salvation by HIS Son BY THEIR FREE WILL. Only by a free will decision could HE know that everyone was following exactly what they wanted, uncoerced by anything and aware of all the options and all the supposed consequences of each option and were capable of true love and a true marriage which can only arise from an uncoerced free will.

A second chance implies that they failed the first chance, that is by their free will they rejected HIS claims of deity and thought HE was a liar but after seeing the proof of HIS deity, they changed their mind. The 'second chance' idea negates the whole needing to choose to enter heaven by our free will, un-coerced by anything, especially not by the proof of the consequences we don't like but called lies.

IF we do not need a free will to enter the heavenly state, then the atheists are correct - goodness would be achieved by HIM forcing us to choose to accept HIM by one stratagem or another. But the heavenly state is our marriage to our GOD and true love and true marriage can only arise from an uncoerced/unafraid free will decision.

mickiel · Post by **mickiel** » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:21 pm

ttruscott wrote:
mickiel wrote: Why would God need a hell, when he could just give everyone a second chance?
1.
When a sin is committed against GOD, the sinner becomes evil and cannot cure himself because he is corrupt....sort of like a computer with corrupt code cannot analyze the error because the error is what it now is. He is now addicted to evil and at heart thinks GOD's evil is good and GOD's good is evil. By rejecting GOD's offer to cure their sin because they decided he was a false god, there was no such thing as evil and they didn't need curing anyway, they put themselves outside of HIS grace and love forever so their evil is eternal.

.

There is no such thing as being outside of God's grace, but its obvious one can be outside of Christian grace. But God is not a Christian, so sinners have hope.

mickiel · Post by **mickiel** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:58 pm

Why would God need a hell, when he could just get rid of Christian doctrine. The Kingdom of God does not need any religious doctrine anyway.

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:38 pm

mickiel wrote:
There is no such thing as being outside of God's grace, but its obvious one can be outside of Christian grace. But God is not a Christian, so sinners have hope.

Where is loving grace towards the goats in Matt 25:41 â€œThen he will say to those on his left, â€˜Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.' When did cursing someone show grace, that is, unearned favour?

Read Malachi 4:1 "For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze," says the LORD of hosts, "so that it will leave them neither root nor branch." 2 "But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall. 3 "You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing," says the LORD of hosts.â€¦

Where is the grace in HIS heart of the the arrogant evil doer that HIS Church skips and dances upon the ashes of the demonic reprobate after the burning of the chaff?

Grace and love are reserved for HIS legitimate (not reprobate or counterfeit children)
Deuteronomy 32:5 "They have acted corruptly toward Him. They are not His children, because of their defect but are a perverse and crooked generation. or: their defect is that they are not HIS children...

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:32 am

mickiel wrote: Why would God need a hell, when he could just get rid of Christian doctrine. The Kingdom of God does not need any religious doctrine anyway.

If you hate Christianity so much, who do you love....?