The adaptation of christianity in the new world

[Confused]

One of the greatest issues I have with most forms of organized religion is how their formats change based on current issues.

For example: stem cell research: All the christians I know say that they are against stem cell research because the cells are harvested from the tissue of aborted fetuses. So it isn't so much stem cell research they are opposed to it's, abortion. But in the same breath, they arent' against organ donation. Because a life isn't being taken to extend anothers. Herein lies the quandry: Abortion is legal and happens, the scientists aren't taking one life to exend anothers any more than they are with organ donation.

Another example, cloning cells. Where exactly is it that scripture says thou shall not replicate what I have created? The earliest thoughts I remember about religion and science was in grade school when my science teacher said that prayer alone won't heal, but god gives us a brain and the tools to heal for him.

Again, the new creation scientists: now it isn't that evolution doens't exist, its just that god created us and set into motion the ability for evolution to occur. Where in scripture can this be validated?

I know this is broad: so let me narrow it down to one central question- How is it that Christians can claim a stand for or against anything moral or ethical in todays world and use scripture as grounds for it? I am not talking about gay marriage, cheating on your spouse, etc etc. I am talking about things like using genetics to pick your childs color of eyes, or the use of condoms to protect against STD's even though they are a form of birth control.

Any insights??

[Confused]

I wonder if this little magical rite worked?
Maybe the power of suggestion?
Or maybe the guy was jealous and this just shut him up.

I suspect that the 'bitter waters' was not very condusive to the health of a fetus.

Personally, I am glad this little ritual went away when the temple was destroyed. However, the principle that we, as humans, get involved in life and death decisions, such as abortions, remains.

You got my vote.
Of course at one time God was responsible for all good and evil.
And any disaster that befell mankind was because of his sin or even his parents.
Some readers of the bible do not understand the development of ideas.

Personally, I still have issues connecting the God in the OT with the God in the NT. Seems to me that he lost all his harshness miraculously and no longer were priest suppose to punish onthe spot (to the catholics a little longer to learn this lesson obviously), but God is now the punishing authority and your sentence is handed down at death. Lovely.

[Goat]

I wonder if this little magical rite worked?
Maybe the power of suggestion?
Or maybe the guy was jealous and this just shut him up.

I suspect that the 'bitter waters' was not very condusive to the health of a fetus.

Personally, I am glad this little ritual went away when the temple was destroyed. However, the principle that we, as humans, get involved in life and death decisions, such as abortions, remains.

You got my vote.
Of course at one time God was responsible for all good and evil.
And any disaster that befell mankind was because of his sin or even his parents.
Some readers of the bible do not understand the development of ideas.

Personally, I still have issues connecting the God in the OT with the God in the NT. Seems to me that he lost all his harshness miraculously and no longer were priest suppose to punish onthe spot (to the catholics a little longer to learn this lesson obviously), but God is now the punishing authority and your sentence is handed down at death. Lovely.

Well, the concept of the Rabbi's is that God did not change, but our understanding of God has changed.

The "old testament" is a book that is the story about a people's search to become closer to god. It records their efforts and their failures. As we, as a people became more 'civilized', our understanding of God became more civilized. Many of the rules in the bible that today we see as barbaric were actually more enlightened in the time period that those rules were written. The unfortunate thing is that society has progressed beyond the need of those old rules, yet some neatherthalic rednecks refer to them as being from God, without understanding the principle it was trying to give , in relationship to the society that surrounded the ancient Hebrews. That is the tendancy to go towards compassion and forgiveness in comparison to the surrounding cultures. It is just a shame that in it also is being used to promote bigotry and jutify prejudice these days.

[achilles12604]

I wonder if this little magical rite worked?
Maybe the power of suggestion?
Or maybe the guy was jealous and this just shut him up.

I suspect that the 'bitter waters' was not very condusive to the health of a fetus.

Personally, I am glad this little ritual went away when the temple was destroyed. However, the principle that we, as humans, get involved in life and death decisions, such as abortions, remains.

You got my vote.
Of course at one time God was responsible for all good and evil.
And any disaster that befell mankind was because of his sin or even his parents.
Some readers of the bible do not understand the development of ideas.

Personally, I still have issues connecting the God in the OT with the God in the NT. Seems to me that he lost all his harshness miraculously and no longer were priest suppose to punish onthe spot (to the catholics a little longer to learn this lesson obviously), but God is now the punishing authority and your sentence is handed down at death. Lovely.

Well, the concept of the Rabbi's is that God did not change, but our understanding of God has changed.

The "old testament" is a book that is the story about a people's search to become closer to god. It records their efforts and their failures. As we, as a people became more 'civilized', our understanding of God became more civilized. Many of the rules in the bible that today we see as barbaric were actually more enlightened in the time period that those rules were written. The unfortunate thing is that society has progressed beyond the need of those old rules, yet some neatherthalic rednecks refer to them as being from God, without understanding the principle it was trying to give , in relationship to the society that surrounded the ancient Hebrews. That is the tendancy to go towards compassion and forgiveness in comparison to the surrounding cultures. It is just a shame that in it also is being used to promote bigotry and jutify prejudice these days.

For once I agree about 97% with Goat. Scary huh?

[Confused]

I wonder if this little magical rite worked?
Maybe the power of suggestion?
Or maybe the guy was jealous and this just shut him up.

I suspect that the 'bitter waters' was not very condusive to the health of a fetus.

Personally, I am glad this little ritual went away when the temple was destroyed. However, the principle that we, as humans, get involved in life and death decisions, such as abortions, remains.

You got my vote.
Of course at one time God was responsible for all good and evil.
And any disaster that befell mankind was because of his sin or even his parents.
Some readers of the bible do not understand the development of ideas.

Personally, I still have issues connecting the God in the OT with the God in the NT. Seems to me that he lost all his harshness miraculously and no longer were priest suppose to punish onthe spot (to the catholics a little longer to learn this lesson obviously), but God is now the punishing authority and your sentence is handed down at death. Lovely.

Well, the concept of the Rabbi's is that God did not change, but our understanding of God has changed.

The "old testament" is a book that is the story about a people's search to become closer to god. It records their efforts and their failures. As we, as a people became more 'civilized', our understanding of God became more civilized. Many of the rules in the bible that today we see as barbaric were actually more enlightened in the time period that those rules were written. The unfortunate thing is that society has progressed beyond the need of those old rules, yet some neatherthalic rednecks refer to them as being from God, without understanding the principle it was trying to give , in relationship to the society that surrounded the ancient Hebrews. That is the tendancy to go towards compassion and forgiveness in comparison to the surrounding cultures. It is just a shame that in it also is being used to promote bigotry and jutify prejudice these days.

For once I agree about 97% with Goat. Scary huh?

Kinda, but kinda cool to. Fishing expedition: When was the OT written (carbon dating method being accepted reliablity)?

[Goat]

Kinda, but kinda cool to. Fishing expedition: When was the OT written (carbon dating method being accepted reliablity)?

We don't have any copies that early, but it probably was put down on paper
sometime 6 or 700 bce. There is a locket that has part of the Lords prayer that is dated 700 bce (which does not mean that the OT was written/compiled around that time, but shows that the tradition was there at least).

You will find that the inerrent people will claim genesis is written in 15th century bce, but I don't think the evidence supports that.

[Biker]

One of the greatest issues I have with most forms of organized religion is how their formats change based on current issues.

For example: stem cell research: All the christians I know say that they are against stem cell research because the cells are harvested from the tissue of aborted fetuses. So it isn't so much stem cell research they are opposed to it's, abortion. But in the same breath, they arent' against organ donation. Because a life isn't being taken to extend anothers. Herein lies the quandry: Abortion is legal and happens, the scientists aren't taking one life to exend anothers any more than they are with organ donation.

Another example, cloning cells. Where exactly is it that scripture says thou shall not replicate what I have created? The earliest thoughts I remember about religion and science was in grade school when my science teacher said that prayer alone won't heal, but god gives us a brain and the tools to heal for him.

Again, the new creation scientists: now it isn't that evolution doens't exist, its just that god created us and set into motion the ability for evolution to occur. Where in scripture can this be validated?

I know this is broad: so let me narrow it down to one central question- How is it that Christians can claim a stand for or against anything moral or ethical in todays world and use scripture as grounds for it? I am not talking about gay marriage, cheating on your spouse, etc etc. I am talking about things like using genetics to pick your childs color of eyes, or the use of condoms to protect against STD's even though they are a form of birth control.

Any insights??

More information needed.Explain format as it applies to Christianity?Come now Confused your not that confused as to say that abortion does not take (kill, murder)innocent conceived life are you?Your correct on not opposed to research.Your quandary is apples and oranges."Science isn't taking one life to save another"= your opinion. Cloning cells:another veiled approach, God= Creator,Man=creation, Man is not God.Confused you really should get out and read, your science teacher was a little bit right, sort of like a little bit pregnant,may I suggest most prayer does not result in healing, but the library is full of accounts of people healed as a result of prayer.Again, creation scientists say what?
As to your question, define moral, define ethical, which scriptures are you referring to, am I to assume condom use to protect you from your spouse's STD's?

[Confused]

Explain format as it applies to Christianity?

One of the greatest deterents to the advancement of science is religion. Bush banned stem cell research with federal grants, not because of his political views, but to score points with the religious sects that said to benefit from murder (abortion) is immoral.

Come now Confused your not that confused as to say that abortion does not take (kill, murder)innocent conceived life are you?

Nope. I don't take a stand on it at all. Fact: prior to 6 weeks gestation, a fetus isn't life. Period. That what most scientists consider realiistic. Courts extend that to anywhere from 16-24 wks gestation. So regardless, abortion is legal. While I dont' know that I could do it, it isn't my place to judge someone elses position on it. I can't say abortion kills because quite simply, a 6 wk gestation fetus isn't life. Should that fetus spontaneously abort, tell me, did god murder it??? Unfair question I know. Sorry. But the facts are, abortion is legal. The harvesting of stem cells from these is by donation only. The female isn't compensated, the abortion isn't paid for. So, given the fact that a fetus isn't considered viable at 6 wks gestation, then it isn't life. Where is the murder then???

Confused you really should get out and read, your science teacher was a little bit right, sort of like a little bit pregnant,may I suggest most prayer does not result in healing, but the library is full of accounts of people healed as a result of prayer

Find me one valid source of healing by prayer. One validated account where prayer alone healed a person. I will tell you now, it doesn't exist. Period. Without medicine/interventions of some sort, prayer alone doesn't heal. Time maybe, medicine maybe, but prayer alone, never.

.Again, creation scientists say what?

They claim that god created man, but also created the sequences needed for man/animal/life to evolve and adapt. This being said, god created mutation in genetic sequences so that man could evolve and survive. For example, the immune system is constantly evolving/adapting. For every virus is exposed to, it develops antigens and stores them into memory so that if the system is exposed to that virus again, it has immunity to it. Now this is an example of new creation science. God created the immune system to be able to adapt and evolve. If this is the case, then god created random mutations in genetic sequences. If these mutations aren't lethal (which most are), then they are beneficial and can significantly alter a person. I don't recall seeing anything in the bible that says that God created man to evolve. Wasn't man already created perfect by his standards (until sin that is).

As to your question, define moral, define ethical, which scriptures are you referring to, am I to assume condom use to protect you from your spouse's STD's?

Not married, sorry. examples, it is immoral to sleep with someone other than a spouse, it is immoral to feel lust towards another mans wife (not commit adultery, just feel lust in general), it is immoral to be unable to forgive the man who beat/raped/tortured/killed your son (thou must forgive thy enemies), it is immoral to sleep with a divorced woman, it is immoral to gather materialistic wealth. These are my references. Yet churches now condone divorce, remarriage. Baptize children born out of wedlock, send ministers into wars to grant absolution to those who killed or were killed (in a combat over oil nonetheless).

Get my meaning here??