Is Jesus God ?!!

[mms20102]

As for all Christians its known by nature that Jesus is God yet there are many contradictions in the bible that can prove that Jesus is only a prophet .

In this debate i want every one who has a good knowledge to give the reasonable proofs that Jesus is god or at any point of the bible where Jesus said worship me .

At the same time i will be providing proofs from the bible that Jesus is not God but only a messenger

as for a start i will ask a question :

What Are The Qualification Of God ?!

[Willum]

[Replying to JLB32168]

Perhaps it is false, but you have made no demonstrations to the contrary, where your presentations haven't actually agreed with the premise, they have been non-germane to the topic.

How could you possibly say pronunciations are false? They are what they are. Perhaps that's were our disconnect is, I am trying to get you to listen to how the words were pronounced, rather than look at the spelling. Perhaps if you review the topic with this in mind, your mind will change. It should, they are what they are.

In the above, you seem to be creating two new non-sequiturs - or I just am confused by what you are trying to claim. When I examined rendings of Joshua, they are usually done after 300AD (The Book of Joshua particularly), which should allow you to see the problem.

"It was spelled differently" because Rome desired to usurp the religion of Palestine by replacing Elohim with IeZeus, and his father Zeus-Pater, Dyupater or Jupiter.

Which, like it or not, spellings right or not, they did.

Another argument you must face is that this is a coincidence. It is many unlikely coincidences, in fact.

Then is it a coincidence that Early Greeks worshiped Apollo and Heracles (sic) as major deities, and these were replaced by Zeus as well? Or is it just Roman policy of using religion to subjugate its conquests?[/quote]

[JLB32168]

Perhaps it is false, but you have made no demonstrations to the contrary, where your presentations haven't actually agreed with the premise, they have been non-germane to the topic.

Your topic is that Iesous is “Hail Zeus,� that is Ie is “Hey� and Sous is “Zeus.� If Ie were “Hey� then the Latins would have started Jesus’ name with an “H� since they had the sound. Jesus’ name would have been written HIESVS instead of IESVS. Since the Latins didn’t use an “H� there’s no reason to believe that the Greeks pronounced Jesus’ name with an “H� at the beginning. That means there’s no “Hey� at the beginning and the “Hail� in “Hail Zeus� has just evaporated. The other problem is your assertion that Sous is Zeus. The Zeta and the Sigma are two different letters. One is voiced with your voice box and the other is just an expulsion of air between the teeth. If sous is Zeus then every ancient Greek had a speech impediment.

Furthermore, the book of Joshua was translated into Greek three hundred years before Christ and “Joshua� was spelled “Jesus.� The name was already in existence but you’re trying to argue that *bing* it suddenly became “Hail Zeus� in the nascent Christian Church. It’s an absurd argument.

"It was spelled differently" because Rome desired to usurp the religion of Palestine by replacing Elohim with IeZeus, and his father Zeus-Pater, Dyupater or Jupiter.

And here comes the Dan Brown quality fiction. Where do you get the idea that Rome ran the show?? The NT was written in Greek. The language of the Apostles was Greek. They cited the Septuagint(Greek) OT more than its Hebrew counterpart. The first Christians were Greek.

Rome was LATIN.

[Willum]

[Replying to JLB32168]

No, you are making very weird assertions about what I am saying or indeed said. I am very confused by many of your last posts. I don't see the relation. For example, the "h," in hey, it would be logical next, to say that hey and hay are the same or different, therefore God exists? That is analogous to what I see you writing.

May I conclude that except for the ones with the ever expanding objections - like what I no longer understand about the point you are trying to make with "h," that has nothing to do with our conversation, as far as I can tell, that you agree with the balance?

For example, Greek and Latin were the educated languages of the time. -eous, -sus are Latinizations (one of my confusions with your point).

Anyway, I no longer understand your arguments or counter arguments, and most seem to enforce what I am claiming rather than counter... so...

Peace?

[Willum]

[Replying to Willum]

I think I see what you are trying to do with your "z" vs "s" argument. You are trying to show the Greek letters with the sounds I was producing in English. You read the letters as Greek rather than English-equivalent sounds.

If you go back and read the letters, and make the Greek equivalent sounds, with the letters, you'll find you'll agree with the premise.

As someone familiar with Greek, I assumed you would do this automatically - indeed, it is the only way it could have made sense.

By contrary example x, makes an exx sound. but I wouldn't write chi to make the sound, because that would be unhelpful.

So I think that will clarify another of your observations.

[JLB32168]

May I conclude that except for the ones with the ever expanding objections - like what I no longer understand about the point you are trying to make with "h," that has nothing to do with our conversation, as far as I can tell, that you agree with the balance?

You said, “Ie, or Hey, is "Hail" the same as it has always been.� You added an “H� to the “Ie� in “Iesous.� This added “H� was supposed to form the Greek equivalent of “Hail.� I demonstrated that we have absolutely no reason to conclude that “Iesous� was pronounced with an “H� sound at the beginning because when the Latin speakers transliterated the word into Latin, they kept the Greek pronunciation. Had the Greeks pronounced an “H� then the Latins would have put an “H� in theirs. They didn’t; therefore, the Greeks didn’t pronounce “Iesous� as “Heysous.�

You, managed to interpret what I said in a way specifically it would be wrong, by choosing to read the letters as Greek rather than English-equivalent sounds.

No – I showed that “Zeus� was pronounced with a distinctive “Z� sound and that this couldn’t jibe with “Sous� (in Iesous) referring to Zeus. “Sous� (again, in “Iesous�) is a hard “S� just as it is in English.

Your argument says that “Iesous� is “Hail Zeus.� “Ie� is supposed to be the “Hail� part and “sous� is supposed to be “Zeus.� The problem is that “Ie� isn’t pronounced “Hey� and “sous� isn’t pronounced like Zeus.

Furthermore, Iesous is the Greek translation of the Hebrew Yeshua or as we say in English “Joshua.�

[Willum]

[Replying to post 135 by JLB32168]

You said, “Ie, or Hey, is "Hail" the same as it has always been.� You added an “H� to the “Ie� in “Iesous.� This added “H� was supposed to form the Greek equivalent of “Hail.� I demonstrated that we have absolutely no reason to conclude that “Iesous� was pronounced with an “H� sound at the beginning because when the Latin speakers transliterated the word into Latin, they kept the Greek pronunciation. Had the Greeks pronounced an “H� then the Latins would have put an “H� in theirs. They didn’t; therefore, the Greeks didn’t pronounce “Iesous� as “Heysous.�

Yeah, and that is still not the point I was making. Heyzeus is still how the majority of the world says Jesus, so... in any case, I never made that argument, you are still confusing sounds and letters to make a point that doesn't exist:

Ie is pronounces in a way that doesn't require an "h", I think you should go back and deconflict what I said. You've brough up the spurious counter argument, what ten times already?

No – I showed that “Zeus� was pronounced with a distinctive “Z� sound and that this couldn’t jibe with “Sous� (in Iesous) referring to Zeus. “Sous� (again, in “Iesous�) is a hard “S� just as it is in English.

No, see, you proved exactly the opposite, that is agreement with my provision. I don't see how you don't see this. Again, deconflict sounds from words, it can't BE any other way.

Here, again, Ie, or Io or Ia etc., MEANS "hail," or "hey." Pronunciation is something else... If you say Ie! You can see how "hey" might have been derived from it in English, but that is, I REPEAT is another unrelated item.

That should put it all to rest for you.

Finally we should agree.

Caps used for emphasis, not yelling.
Peace.

Ie Saturnalia! (Yaay Saturnalia!)