Jehovah’s Witnesses only ones that will be saved?????

[Donray]

Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that only 144,000 people will go to heaven. God chooses these 144,000 individuals, the process began with the first century Christians and was completed in the year 1935. Of course from 1879 (the year the Watchtower started) till 1935 only faithful Jehovah’s Witnesses were chosen for this special role. All faithful Jehovah’s Witnesses not chosen to be among the 144,000 elite that go to heaven (those joining the Watchtower after 1935) will spend eternity on earth. All other people on the earth will be destroyed at war of Armageddon here on earth. This would also include any Jehovah's Witnesses who has been disfellowshipped or is otherwise unfaithful to the Watchtower and has not worked his or her way back into the good graces of the Watchtower by the time of Armageddon.

If one believes the JWs all other Christians and everyone that is not a JW will not go to heaven or live on the Earth after Armageddon.

Question for debate is JW the only true Christin religion or is it some type of cult that calls itself Christian?

[marco]

Do Jehovah's Witnesses believe only 144,000 individuals will go to heaven?

Yes we do.

I used to think this was a cruel joke directed at JWs. Presumably the number 144 is the square of the number of apostles and the 1000 is a nod to the millennium. And Bob's your uncle.

I think we can happily say that if this thinking earns you paradise then paradise isn't worth earning.

It is also fairly certain that those who declare themselves as special are nothing of the kind - at least not in the way they think. All the same it is sad that people alive in the 21st century have been successfully manipulated into accepting that 144,000 people will "be saved." It is as if all man's efforts in science and literature have been for nothing. Thank God my early wanderings in religion were Catholic. Phew!

[JehovahsWitness]

Do Jehovah's Witnesses believe only 144,000 individuals will go to heaven?

Yes we do.

Presumably the number 144 is the square of the number of apostles and the 1000 is a nod to the millennium.

Not quite, but not to far off its the square of 12, 000 as presented in the bible in Revelation 7:1-8 (12,000 x 12, 000) = 144, 000. But yes, Jesus is reported to have chosen 12 Apostles, not a coincidence in my opinion, whom he gave special mention in relation to his kingdom.

[marco]

Not quite, but not to far off its the square of 12, 000 as presented in the bible in Revelation 7:1-8 (12,000 x 12, 000) = 144, 000. But yes, Jesus is reported to have chosen 12 Apostles, not a coincidence in my opinion, whom he gave special mention in relation to his kingdom.

I think you got your mathematics wrong, JW. 12,000 squared is 144,000,000. Maybe there's hope for more of us on the bus.

But I know where the number came from; 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes would simply be 144,00.

A wonderfully wise RC priest told me, as a boy, to ignore Revelation, written as it was by a drunk. I see his point. I never got the chance to thank him.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 13 by marco]

My bad, yes, it's not squared is it its 12, 000 x 12 = 144, 000

Thanks (yes math is not my forté). Anyway here's a link to the reference (Rev 7:1-8)

Link
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... on%207:1-8

JW

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 13 by marco]

My bad, yes, it's not squared is it its 12, 000 x 12 = 144, 000

Thanks (yes math is not my forté). Anyway here's a link to the reference (Rev 7:1-8)

Link
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... on%207:1-8

JW

Aren't there more JWs than that?

So what happens.. the rest of you go to hell?

[JehovahsWitness]

Aren't there more JWs than that?

So what happens.. the rest of you go to hell?

Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in "hell".

Regarding your question, please refer to

- post 8 by JehovahsWitness

- post 9 by 2timothy316

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 13 by marco]

My bad, yes, it's not squared is it its 12, 000 x 12 = 144, 000

Thanks (yes math is not my forté). Anyway here's a link to the reference (Rev 7:1-8)

Link
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... on%207:1-8

JW

Aren't there more JWs than that?

So what happens.. the rest of you go to hell?

I see you aren't familiar with what JWs teach. No problem.....most people aren't. There are relatively few people assigned to go to heaven because they are part of a ruling class that will reign with Jesus Christ from heaven, over the earth.

"They sing a new canticle, saying, 'Worthy art thou [the Lamb, Jesus] to take the scroll and to open its seals; for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us for God with thy blood, out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation [not just the Jews], and hast made them for our God a kingdom and priests, and they shall reign over the earth.'" (Apocalypse 5:9,10, Holy Trinity Edition of the Catholic Bible)

Who will they reign over? BILLIONS of people who go through the Great Tribulation and then also all the resurrected people from the time of Abel up to now, who will live in paradise on Earth.

So there will be BILLIONS of people on the earth who have the hope of never-ending life in a perfect world (such as Adam would still have if he had remained faithful), being guided by 144,000 persons who will have been taken from ALL NATIONS on the earth to rule with Jesus in heaven. (There is no such thing as a literal fiery "hell.")

[marco]

Who will they reign over? BILLIONS of people who go through the Great Tribulation and then also all the resurrected people from the time of Abel up to now, who will live in paradise on Earth.

This is the 21st century. We can communicate with people on the other side of the world. Yet we talk of some great tribulation and a fixed number of people saved, determined by the division of some awful desert tribes in an awful past, the information reaching us from an unknown writer of what is called Revelation.

Why cannot we look for beauty in Shakespeare and take note of Antony's lovely speech where he says (and it applies to religious superstition):

O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,

And men have lost their reason ?

[dakoski]

[Replying to marco]

But I know where the number came from; 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes would simply be 144,00.

A common interpretation is that its 12(the tribes of Israel - representing believers before Jesus) multiplied by 12(the apostles - representing the believers after Jesus) and the thousand just represents that there's lots of them from both Old and New Covenants. Given the genre its unlikely to reflect literally 144,000 people.

[marco]

[Replying to marco]

But I know where the number came from; 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes would simply be 144,00.

A common interpretation is that its 12(the tribes of Israel - representing believers before Jesus) multiplied by 12(the apostles - representing the believers after Jesus) and the thousand just represents that there's lots of them from both Old and New Covenants. Given the genre its unlikely to reflect literally 144,000 people.

I find this numerological play an absurdity. There are umpteen special numbers mentioned in the Bible and their arbitrary multiplication would allow more people into heaven. The idea that God has done this multiplication sum and arranges people in a final eventuality according to this arithmetic is silly. The writer of this:


Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.


5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,

from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,

from the tribe of Gad 12,000,

6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000,

from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,

from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,

7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,

from the tribe of Levi 12,000,

from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,

8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,

from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,

from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

from whence cometh the 144,000 is not someone I would want to meet or get close to. Nowadays he would be treated humanely instead of having himself published. He is obsessed with one tiny area of the globe, the one he knows at his time period. Prophet that he is he should have seen some Australians, with kangaroos as proof of identity, in his "vision." It is remiss of the Almighty to have allowed this book to be included in his other volumes of work and I shall tell him so, though one hopes not too soon.