What Are Your Christian Non-Negotiables?

[ElCodeMonkey]

To be "saved", what are the absolute non-negotiables? What must you absolutely do, believe, trust, say, etc? Jesus died for sins, Jesus is God, Belief in Trinity, Baptism, etc, etc. What cannot be ignored for salvation?

[OnceConvinced]

Peace to you!

My response to the OP question is in the second half of post 28.


The things that you listed OC, at least those things from me, were with regard to a different question.

Which was, what does it take to be saved? Wouldn't the things that it took to be saved be the non-negotiables?

[tam]

Peace to you!

My response to the OP question is in the second half of post 28.


The things that you listed OC, at least those things from me, were with regard to a different question.

Which was, what does it take to be saved? Wouldn't the things that it took to be saved be the non-negotiables?

Wasn't the other question in regard to what makes a person a 'true' Christian?


Peace again,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[onewithhim]

Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law? He said to him: You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind."Matthew 22:36, 37.

How does one love someone with their whole heart? How can one be sure they are loving with their whole heart?

Simply by making them your number one, above everyone and everything else. You live your life with them at the center. They are on your mind at all times. When we let other things crowd them out to where we don't hardly think about them at all, when we realize that, we ask forgiveness and he is eager to forgive.

[onewithhim]

I have been compiling a list of Christian not-negotiables (ie, things one must do to be saved). Here is the list (I have added others from this thread to it):

Must follow the teachings of Christ (Elijah John)
Must believe in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ for mankind. (Vanguard)
Must preach the same things Jesus preaches. (Dropship)
Must not commit the same sins over and over (Faithful One)
Must have no doubts (Faithful One)
Must be chosen or called by God. (Tam)
Must answer God's invitation. (Tam)
Must be baptised by fire. (Tam)
Must be anointed with the holy spirit. (Tam)
Must be someone that everybody likes (Dropship)
Must not dance to the world's tune (Dropship)
Must love God with your whole heart (2timothy316)
Must have a spirit of constant repentance (JLB32168)
Must recognise Jesus as the true god (JehovahsWitness)
Must believe that Jesus is the son of God (Onewithim)
Must do the fathers will (Onewithhim)
There is nothing we can do. Its all up to God (ttruscott)

Reference:
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... c&start=70

I was really expecting there would be some agreement by at least even a couple of Christians by now, but so far nobody believes the same things. Every Christian has a different spin on what it takes to be truly saved.

Well, if you look closely, you can see that there is agreement between at least 3 Christians here, and we agree with some things others have said.

Three of us on your list are Jehovah's Witnesses: 2timothy3:16, JehovahsWitness, and myself. We agree on everything. BTW, you are wrong about JehovahsWitness saying that we have to believe that "Jesus must be recognized as the true God." I have never seen her say any such thing. I know she believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

All three of us will agree with ElijahJohn that we must follow the teachings of Christ. We also believe Vanguard that Jesus made an atoning sacrifice for mankind. We agree with Dropship that we must preach the same things that Jesus preached. FaithfulOne is right in that we must not practice sins (doing them over and over). Tam is totally wrong with her interpretation of Scripture. She thinks she is one of the chosen of God who is going to rule with Christ in heaven. Even further, she says that EVERY Christian must be a chosen one, with heaven as their destination. She will realize one day soon that she was mistaken. And only the co-rulers with Jesus Christ who will rule for a thousand years over billions of people on the earth are "chosen and anointed." Most of the people who ever lived will be able to enjoy Paradise on Earth forever. She misunderstands, also, what "baptism by fire" means. It's not something that anyone would want to experience. It refers to the obliteration of the wicked.

The rest of the things on your list we believe are false (except "not dancing to the world's tune," and possibly "having a constant spirit of repentance"). But there's a lot that each of us does agree with, as you can see, I hope.

[gordsd]

[Replying to post 1 by ElCodeMonkey]

The main point, which seems to me is often lost, is that Gods favor is simply a free gift. And in the story of Jesus, for those who are trapped by the thought that some sacrifice must be provided for sin, as the oppressive Temple cult in Jesus day taught, the Jesus story provides a way to accept the thought that Gods love and favor is simply free (paid for by Jesus), so in turn they can give their love freely as well. This is the main teaching it seems to me: salvation is a gift for all those who simply accept it. One does not have to do anything except that. Faith is not a theological formula; it is simply accepting Gods favor as a gift and letting it transform your own life into one of love. I do not think that belief in any fantastic tale or miracle is needed; it is simply allowing the free gift to transform you into a freely giving, loving person.

[tam]

May you have peace!

I will agree with owh that many of those things in OC's list are similar and not in conflict.

All three of us will agree with ElijahJohn that we must follow the teachings of Christ.

Yes... well, not to be pedantic, but just to be accurate, we must follow CHRIST (not just the teachings of), and this would of course include keeping His word; doing as HE says.

We also believe Vanguard that Jesus made an atoning sacrifice for mankind.

Yes.

We agree with Dropship that we must preach the same things that Jesus preached.

Certainly we would not want to preach a different message.

FaithfulOne is right in that we must not practice sins (doing them over and over).

I'm going to leave this one alone atm.

She thinks she is one of the chosen of God who is going to rule with Christ in heaven. Even further, she says that EVERY Christian must be a chosen one, with heaven as their destination.

There is no such thing as anointed versus non-anointed christians. A Christian is anointed with holy spirit, that is the baptism that Christ gives, the baptism of fire. Making a distinction between two different kinds of Christians - and two different hopes for two different kinds of Christians - is purely a teaching of men. Christ did not teach it. The apostles did not teach it. No one professed one of two hopes until the WTS created the doctrine this past century.

But that is a different message than the one Christ and the apostles taught.

Indeed, this very teaching of the WTS literally shuts up the Kingdom of heaven in people's faces. The WTS then adds error upon error, teaching most NOT to obey Christ when He said this:

"This means my body, take it and eat."

"This means my blood, take it and drink."

And interprets away these words:

"Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have NO LIFE in you."


So:

The WTS tells people that Christ was not speaking to (most of) them; that most are NOT to do partake of Christ; that this is reserved only for that supposed group of 'heavenly hope' versus 'earthly hope' Christians.



Yet Christ said this (to His apostles, who He also said to eat and drink of His body and blood):

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations... teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

And only the co-rulers with Jesus Christ who will rule for a thousand years over billions of people on the earth are "chosen and anointed."

Yes, those who rule with Christ are chosen and anointed and will rule as kings and priests with Christ a thousand years.

I do not have a number for how many will be subjects of that Kingdom (or for how many will be king-priests with Christ for that matter, except for the part of their full number that is sealed: the 144 000 made up from twelve tribes of literal Israel)

She misunderstands, also, what "baptism by fire" means. It's not something that anyone would want to experience. It refers to the obliteration of the wicked.

It is not referring to the obliteration of anyone. John (the baptist) said that the one coming after Him (Christ) would baptize them (his disciples, and anyone else Christ chooses) with holy spirit and fire.

Recall the flames above the heads of those who received holy spirit at Pentecost? That was holy spirit, and they had just received the baptism of fire.


God also refines people with fire, yes, in order to produce gold?


Christ also said:

"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!"

THAT fire that He came to bring is holy spirit. THAT is what He breathed out upon His apostles, that is also what the people at Pentecost received; that is what anyone receives who is baptized/anointed wit holy spirit.



He is not speaking of how He can't wait to burn up the wicked. Something He does not do to begin with. He is the LIFE.



May those with ears hear, and those who wish them be given ears TO hear and get a sense of these things.


May you also have peace, to you and to your loved ones,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

Must recognise Jesus as the true god (JehovahsWitness).

Excuse me, but I most definitely didn't say that. Please do not misrepresent what I say...

Ultimately, I believe anyone that will be given the gift of everlasting life, must recognize Jehovah as the true God and the role and position of His son Jesus.

Bad show, very bad show!

JW

[OnceConvinced]

Peace to you!

My response to the OP question is in the second half of post 28.


The things that you listed OC, at least those things from me, were with regard to a different question.

Which was, what does it take to be saved? Wouldn't the things that it took to be saved be the non-negotiables?

Wasn't the other question in regard to what makes a person a 'true' Christian?

which would be non-negotiables wouldn't they?

[OnceConvinced]

Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law? He said to him: You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind."Matthew 22:36, 37.

How does one love someone with their whole heart? How can one be sure they are loving with their whole heart?

Simply by making them your number one, above everyone and everything else. You live your life with them at the center.

And what if you once fail at that? Maybe one time you decide to put another loved one first. Does that mean you have now failed to love God with your whole heart and are now doomed?

They are on your mind at all times.

So if you concentrate on something or someone else for even a moment, then you are no longer loving God with all your heart? You are then doomed?

Just how much time are we allow to spend with other things and people on our mind before we can no longer be deemed to be loving God with all your heart?

When we let other things crowd them out to where we don't hardly think about them at all, when we realize that, we ask forgiveness and he is eager to forgive.

So how much time are we allowed to have other things on our mind before we have broken God's command to love him with all our heart?

[OnceConvinced]

BTW, you are wrong about JehovahsWitness saying that we have to believe that "Jesus must be recognized as the true God." I have never seen her say any such thing. I know she believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Sorry, my mistake, I misread what she said. "JEHOVAH is the one true God". I have edited my list. My apologies to JW.

I have been compiling a list of Christian not-negotiables (ie, things one must do to be saved). Here is the list (I have added others from this thread to it):

Must follow the teachings of Christ (Elijah John)
Must believe in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ for mankind. (Vanguard)
Must preach the same things Jesus preaches. (Dropship)
Must not commit the same sins over and over (Faithful One)
Must have no doubts (Faithful One)
Must be chosen or called by God. (Tam)
Must answer God's invitation. (Tam)
Must be baptised by fire. (Tam)
Must be anointed with the holy spirit. (Tam)
Must be someone that everybody likes (Dropship)
Must not dance to the world's tune (Dropship)
Must love God with your whole heart (2timothy316)
Must have a spirit of constant repentance (JLB32168)
Must recognise JEHOVAH as the true god (JehovahsWitness)
Must believe that Jesus is the son of God (Onewithim)
Must do the fathers will (Onewithhim)
There is nothing we can do. Its all up to God (ttruscott)

Reference:
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... c&start=70

I was really expecting there would be some agreement by at least even a couple of Christians by now, but so far nobody believes the same things. Every Christian has a different spin on what it takes to be truly saved.

Well, if you look closely, you can see that there is agreement between at least 3 Christians here, and we agree with some things others have said.

From what I can see there they are all slightly different things. Which ones are agreed upon by three?

Must love God with your whole heart (2timothy316)
Must recognise Jehovah as the true god (JehovahsWitness)
Must believe that Jesus is the son of God (Onewithim)

Three completely different non-negotiables here.

2timonthy says we must love god with all our heart. He is not saying that we must recognise him as the true God, nor is he saying that we need to believe Jesus is the son of God. He has placed loving God with your whole heart as his non-negotiable.

JW has said that the non-negotiable is to recognise Jehovah as the true God. Loving God and believing Jesus to be the son of God is not the same as that.

You however have declared that the non-negotiable is to believe that Jesus is the son of God. You said nothing about having to recognise Jehovah as the one true God or that you must love him.

Three of us on your list are Jehovah's Witnesses: 2timothy3:16, JehovahsWitness, and myself. We agree on everything.

That is a very bold and unbelievable claim. Have you discussed amongst you everything there is to discuss? The above shows disagreement between the three of you when it comes to non-negotiables. Each have listed one not negotiable but not included the other two as non-negotiables.

All three of us will agree...

I say let them speak for themselves. They don't need to have you speak for them.

with ElijahJohn that we must follow the teachings of Christ. We also believe Vanguard that Jesus made an atoning sacrifice for mankind. We agree with Dropship that we must preach the same things that Jesus preached. FaithfulOne is right in that we must not practice sins (doing them over and over).

Ok, so these are also non-negotiables for you? How come you didn't include them before?

Isn't it good to be clear of just how many things we need to have as non-negotiables? There is much fine print isn't there? So easy to get it wrong.

I will update you on my list.

Tam is totally wrong with her interpretation of Scripture.

In your opinion.

She thinks she is one of the chosen of God who is going to rule with Christ in heaven.

And I suppose God has told you she's not? And he's told you that YOU are one of his chosen? Why should we take you more seriously than Tam?

Even further, she says that EVERY Christian must be a chosen one, with heaven as their destination. She will realize one day soon that she was mistaken. And only the co-rulers with Jesus Christ who will rule for a thousand years over billions of people on the earth are "chosen and anointed." Most of the people who ever lived will be able to enjoy Paradise on Earth forever. She misunderstands, also, what "baptism by fire" means. It's not something that anyone would want to experience. It refers to the obliteration of the wicked.

The rest of the things on your list we believe are false (except "not dancing to the world's tune," and possibly "having a constant spirit of repentance"). But there's a lot that each of us does agree with, as you can see, I hope.

Clearly you Christians aren't really in agreement with each other on much at all are you? The non-negotiables are far from clear and agreed upon and there are many of them