What Are Your Christian Non-Negotiables?

[ElCodeMonkey]

To be "saved", what are the absolute non-negotiables? What must you absolutely do, believe, trust, say, etc? Jesus died for sins, Jesus is God, Belief in Trinity, Baptism, etc, etc. What cannot be ignored for salvation?

[JehovahsWitness]

Sorry, my mistake, I misread what she said. "JEHOVAH is the one true God". I have edited my list. My apologies to JW.

Okay, no harm done. Apology accepted.

JW

[JehovahsWitness]

From what I can see there they are all slightly different things. Which ones are agreed upon by three?

Must love God with your whole heart (2timothy316)
Must recognise Jehovah as the true god (JehovahsWitness)
Must believe that Jesus is the son of God (Onewithim)

Three completely different non-negotiables here.

(so which are they "slightly different" or "completely different"?)

JEHOVAH
Must love God with your whole heart (2timothy316) is the equivalent of "must recognize Jehovah as the true God" (JehovahsWitness). For us, recognizing Jehovah is more than just being able to point him out in a crowd, it means also obeying him. Since loving God is the first commandement for Christians, one "recognizing" Him means also loving Him.

JESUS
Must believe that Jesus is the son of God (Onewithim) was repeated as "must recognize ... the role and position of His son Jesus" (JehovahsWitness). While (2timothy316) didn't mention Jesus, he also didn't say his list was exhaustive. There is no reason therefore to believe he would DISagree with the point about Jesus also figuring in salvation.

Which ones are agreed upon by three?

I for one agree with all three (JehovahsWitness). The list is not exhaustive, but all other requirements for salvation are based on the two fundamental requirements stated above.

I will leave my brothers and sisters to speak for themselves but I am confident you will not find any significant disagreement on matters faith and salvation when it comes to Jehovah's Witnesses. Anywhere in the world.


JW

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 1 by ElCodeMonkey]

The main point, which seems to me is often lost, is that Gods favor is simply a free gift. And in the story of Jesus, for those who are trapped by the thought that some sacrifice must be provided for sin, as the oppressive Temple cult in Jesus day taught, the Jesus story provides a way to accept the thought that Gods love and favor is simply free (paid for by Jesus), so in turn they can give their love freely as well. This is the main teaching it seems to me: salvation is a gift for all those who simply accept it. One does not have to do anything except that. Faith is not a theological formula; it is simply accepting Gods favor as a gift and letting it transform your own life into one of love. I do not think that belief in any fantastic tale or miracle is needed; it is simply allowing the free gift to transform you into a freely giving, loving person.

Would you read all of the posts and comment on something found therein that disagrees with your thinking but presents good points, enough to cause you to rethink your position?

[onewithhim]

Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law? He said to him: You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind."Matthew 22:36, 37.

How does one love someone with their whole heart? How can one be sure they are loving with their whole heart?

Simply by making them your number one, above everyone and everything else. You live your life with them at the center.

And what if you once fail at that? Maybe one time you decide to put another loved one first. Does that mean you have now failed to love God with your whole heart and are now doomed?

They are on your mind at all times.

So if you concentrate on something or someone else for even a moment, then you are no longer loving God with all your heart? You are then doomed?

Just how much time are we allow to spend with other things and people on our mind before we can no longer be deemed to be loving God with all your heart?

When we let other things crowd them out to where we don't hardly think about them at all, when we realize that, we ask forgiveness and he is eager to forgive.

So how much time are we allowed to have other things on our mind before we have broken God's command to love him with all our heart?

Do you enjoy being contentious? What kind of a question is that? I said clearly that God is eager to forgive, and all we need to do is ask his forgiveness. We do this on a daily basis, as Jesus indicated we should do (Matt.6:9,10).

[tam]

Peace to you!

My response to the OP question is in the second half of post 28.


The things that you listed OC, at least those things from me, were with regard to a different question.

Which was, what does it take to be saved? Wouldn't the things that it took to be saved be the non-negotiables?

Wasn't the other question in regard to what makes a person a 'true' Christian?

which would be non-negotiables wouldn't they?

To be Christian.

Is 'are you a christian' what El code meant when he asked, "are you saved"?


I'm not being sarcastic or contentious. I had not considered that this is what some people might mean by that question.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[onewithhim]

BTW, you are wrong about JehovahsWitness saying that we have to believe that "Jesus must be recognized as the true God." I have never seen her say any such thing. I know she believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Sorry, my mistake, I misread what she said. "JEHOVAH is the one true God". I have edited my list. My apologies to JW.

I have been compiling a list of Christian not-negotiables (ie, things one must do to be saved). Here is the list (I have added others from this thread to it):

Must follow the teachings of Christ (Elijah John)
Must believe in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ for mankind. (Vanguard)
Must preach the same things Jesus preaches. (Dropship)
Must not commit the same sins over and over (Faithful One)
Must have no doubts (Faithful One)
Must be chosen or called by God. (Tam)
Must answer God's invitation. (Tam)
Must be baptised by fire. (Tam)
Must be anointed with the holy spirit. (Tam)
Must be someone that everybody likes (Dropship)
Must not dance to the world's tune (Dropship)
Must love God with your whole heart (2timothy316)
Must have a spirit of constant repentance (JLB32168)
Must recognise JEHOVAH as the true god (JehovahsWitness)
Must believe that Jesus is the son of God (Onewithim)
Must do the fathers will (Onewithhim)
There is nothing we can do. Its all up to God (ttruscott)

Reference:
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... c&start=70

I was really expecting there would be some agreement by at least even a couple of Christians by now, but so far nobody believes the same things. Every Christian has a different spin on what it takes to be truly saved.

Well, if you look closely, you can see that there is agreement between at least 3 Christians here, and we agree with some things others have said.

From what I can see there they are all slightly different things. Which ones are agreed upon by three?

Must love God with your whole heart (2timothy316)
Must recognise Jehovah as the true god (JehovahsWitness)
Must believe that Jesus is the son of God (Onewithim)

Three completely different non-negotiables here.

No, they are not different. They are harmonious. Jehovah is the true God and Jesus is his Son. Jesus said that to love Jehovah with our whole hearts is the greatest and first commandment, so that goes right along with recognizing Jehovah as God and Jesus as his Son. (Matt.22:38)

I spoke for 2timothy316 and JehovahsWitness because you stated that there are none in agreement on this thread. I said that yes there are some in agreement.
I also indicated which ones that we three agree on.

[OnceConvinced]

JEHOVAH
Must love God with your whole heart (2timothy316) is the equivalent of "must recognize Jehovah as the true God" (JehovahsWitness).

Surely on can love someone/something with all one's heart without recognising them as the one true someone/something that should be loved?

JESUS
Must believe that Jesus is the son of God (Onewithim) was repeated as "must recognize ... the role and position of His son Jesus" (JehovahsWitness). While (2timothy316) didn't mention Jesus, he also didn't say his list was exhaustive.

It does seem to me that Christians are less than honest about just how many non-negotiables there truly is. They like to make out that being saved or going to Heaven is simple and easy, but they appear to have a habit of leaving out all the fine print.

I reckon if we really got down to the nitty gritty here and what exactly are the no-negotiables... an EXHAUSTIVE list, we would have a list of hundreds of things and I bet even you Jehovah's Witnesses would be at odds about some of it.

I will leave my brothers and sisters to speak for themselves but I am confident you will not find any significant disagreement on matters faith and salvation when it comes to Jehovah's Witnesses. Anywhere in the world.

I don't believe that for one second. But you keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

If it were true, I'm betting your bible study/discussion groups are very very boring with everyone in agreement with one another.

[onewithhim]

BTW, you are wrong about JehovahsWitness saying that we have to believe that "Jesus must be recognized as the true God." I have never seen her say any such thing. I know she believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Sorry, my mistake, I misread what she said. "JEHOVAH is the one true God". I have edited my list. My apologies to JW.

I have been compiling a list of Christian not-negotiables (ie, things one must do to be saved). Here is the list (I have added others from this thread to it):

Must follow the teachings of Christ (Elijah John)
Must believe in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ for mankind. (Vanguard)
Must preach the same things Jesus preaches. (Dropship)
Must not commit the same sins over and over (Faithful One)
Must have no doubts (Faithful One)
Must be chosen or called by God. (Tam)
Must answer God's invitation. (Tam)
Must be baptised by fire. (Tam)
Must be anointed with the holy spirit. (Tam)
Must be someone that everybody likes (Dropship)
Must not dance to the world's tune (Dropship)
Must love God with your whole heart (2timothy316)
Must have a spirit of constant repentance (JLB32168)
Must recognise JEHOVAH as the true god (JehovahsWitness)
Must believe that Jesus is the son of God (Onewithim)
Must do the fathers will (Onewithhim)
There is nothing we can do. Its all up to God (ttruscott)

Reference:
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... c&start=70

with ElijahJohn that we must follow the teachings of Christ. We also believe Vanguard that Jesus made an atoning sacrifice for mankind. We agree with Dropship that we must preach the same things that Jesus preached. FaithfulOne is right in that we must not practice sins (doing them over and over).

Ok, so these are also non-negotiables for you? How come you didn't include them before?

She thinks she is one of the chosen of God who is going to rule with Christ in heaven.

And I suppose God has told you she's not? And he's told you that YOU are one of his chosen? Why should we take you more seriously than Tam?

Even further, she says that EVERY Christian must be a chosen one, with heaven as their destination. She will realize one day soon that she was mistaken. And only the co-rulers with Jesus Christ who will rule for a thousand years over billions of people on the earth are "chosen and anointed." Most of the people who ever lived will be able to enjoy Paradise on Earth forever. She misunderstands, also, what "baptism by fire" means. It's not something that anyone would want to experience. It refers to the obliteration of the wicked.

The rest of the things on your list we believe are false (except "not dancing to the world's tune," and possibly "having a constant spirit of repentance"). But there's a lot that each of us does agree with, as you can see, I hope.

Clearly you Christians aren't really in agreement with each other on much at all are you? The non-negotiables are far from clear and agreed upon and there are many of them

Some of the things the others said that I said I agree with weregivens....they were obviously, to me, included in what I listed as non-negotiable. From what I remember, I said that we must believe that Jehovah is the only true God and Jesus is His Son, who died for us so that we could live forever. I think I also said that we must do the Father's will. This includes all of the other things that were said, that is, those which I said I agreed with.

I have said many times that I don't pretend to think that I am one of the chosen ones who will rule with Christ in heaven. I have the hope of living on Earth forever. I guess you didn't really read my posts very closely.

You haven't really read them and yet you feel quite satisfied to criticize me and the others as if none of us agree on anything. That is incorrect and unfair.

[JehovahsWitness]

I will leave my brothers and sisters to speak for themselves but I am confident you will not find any significant disagreement on matters faith and salvation when it comes to Jehovah's Witnesses. Anywhere in the world.

I don't believe that for one second. But you keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

Well, unless you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses it seems you will have to bow to my superior knowledge and experience on the matter.

As a body one of the things that distinguishes us as a group is our unity. Of course we have opinions on minor issues and we don't have to agree on everything in terms of organizational procedure, but with something as basic, as elementary, as fundamental as faith and salvation there is not one active Jehovah's Witness that will be in disagreement that Jehovah is the True God (which is why although I didn't spot it, Onewithhim could say that I had said no such thing about Jesus). Or the role that Jesus Christ plays in our salvation.

If it were true, I'm betting your bible study/discussion groups are very very boring with everyone in agreement with one another.

Firstly it is a fact, so it is not *if* it is so. Further, I was under the impression, the point of your post was that you consider disunity a point for criticism. If so, wouldn't unity be a positive? Or are you saying "If Christians can't agree, that's bad but if Christians DO agree, that's also bad" (unless being "boring" is in your view a positive trait).

In any case if being united makes us "boring" that's really not your problem is it? The fact is, for us unity of faith is not boring, unity is not uniformity and we don't need conflict to enjoy our congregational or family bible study sessions.


JW

[2timothy316]

I will leave my brothers and sisters to speak for themselves but I am confident you will not find any significant disagreement on matters faith and salvation when it comes to Jehovah's Witnesses. Anywhere in the world.

I don't believe that for one second. But you keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

If it were true, I'm betting your bible study/discussion groups are very very boring with everyone in agreement with one another.

I know I might get dinged here for echoing JW here but I want to add my comment for emphasis.

Without a doubt, on matters of faith and salvation there are no significant disagreements with my spiritual brothers and sisters. I have traveled to many congregations and spoken to many Witnesses from coast to coast. I do not have to worry about walking into a different congregation and wonder, 'what do they teach here'. I already know what they teach.

Someone saying a negative comment about our unity is nothing new either. Though saying it would be boring is rare. Those that say such a thing must not get along with many people to begin with and peace with others must be rare. If conflict is a person's aim then yes I am sure the JW studies would be extremely boring. Yet I can't help but be amazed that it's not some wall or threat that is keeping pot stirrers away from our meetings, but our unity and peace. Truly Jehovah God knows how to keep peace safe from those that would rather disrupt it.