Are God and Satan allies?

[Claire Evans]

We have the story of Job:

"One day when the sons of God came before Jehovah, Satan came with them. Jehovah said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Satan answered, "From going back and forth on the earth, and walking up and down on it." And Jehovah said to Satan, "Have you seen my servant Job? For there is no man like him on the ea rth, blameless and upright, who reveres God and avoids evil." Satan answered, "But is it for nothing that Job reveres God? Have you not yourself made a hedge all about him, about his household, and about all that he has? You have blessed whatever he does, and his possessions have greatly increased. But just put out your hand now and take away all he has; he certainly will curse you to your face." Then Jehovah said to Satan, "See, everything that he has is in your power; only do not lay hands on Job himself." So Satan left the presence of Jehovah."

Clearly Satan and God are allies in this story.

Then we have Jesus who said in John 8:44

"You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

Clearly Jesus is not being portrayed as being an ally of Satan. If they were, God would be giving Satan the power to deceive because that is what He would have wanted. This is not in accordance with the gospels. The Lord's Prayer goes, "Lead us not into temptation and deliver us from evil."

This means that God would never use Satan to tempt us and will not purposely put evil in our way because Jesus is asking Him to deliver us from evil.

How do we reconcile this? It's clear that it's because Jews do not believe the devil is evil. To Jews, he is merely a "prosecuting attorney", there only to make people's lives miserable to lead us to God.
We also know that Satan is an omniscient being who is omnipresent. Yet Jews reject this outright. They see that as a negation of monotheism.

There is a incongruity between the Satan in the New Testament and Satan in the OT. Is it because the God in the OT is not the Father of Jesus?

[Yahu]

Have you ever thought that Yahweh in the OT is not the same as Yahweh?

That makes absolutely no sense. Of course YHVH in the OT is the same yesterday, today and forever.

[Yahu]

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy ... ient-truth

This article is full of so many errors. Here is an example:

El was the chief Canaanite god. He was depicted as a kind and gentle being living on a tent on the mountain. From his base, all the waters of the world came. He presided over the Assembly of the Gods along with this wife, Asherah. They were the top tier. They were the owners of the universe and it was their duty to establish and appoint rulers of their cosmic world. They begot 70 sons which comprised of the second tier.

El is a title that means 'mighty one' and is not even a name. The El and Asherah and their 70 sons is a reference to Noah, his wife Na'amah and the 70 nations from Noah's sons/grandsons. In this case it isn't even a reference to a god but to ancestor worship. One of Asherah's primary titles confuse the scholars. She is called 'she who treads upon the sea' while being an earth goddess. That title is from her being on the ark with Noah as a survivor of the flood. The Greeks considered her a Titan because she came from the age of the Titans, ie she lived in that pre-flood age of the Titans.

El can be a reference to Yah, or Noah or even to the national El, the one of the 70 national founding fathers. It has to be taken from the context of who is being referenced as El. Sometime the national Els are referenced and Noah is referenced as El Elyon, 'the mightiest of the mighty ones'.

Calling an individual El is like us calling someone 'The President'. It has to be taken in context of 'the president' of what (or when)? The title transfers to different individuals over time.

Baal wasn't even one of the 70 sons. He was Nimrod, the son of Cush by a demi-goddess Ashtoreth.

DEUTERONOMY 32:7 Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations; ask your father, and he will show you; your elders, and they will tell you. 8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when He separated the sons of men, He fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the SONS OF GOD. 9 For the LORD's portion is His people, Jacob His allotted heritage.

This is the correct version of this passage but it mistranslated El as God when it is a reference to Noah. The Most High in this passage is again Noah, the El of the national Els.

It was the sons/grandsons of Noah that the 70 nations were divided among but Yah took Israel, a subset of the Hebrew nation as His inheritance. That was the priestly line.

That article is so full of ridiculous errors, it isn't worth reading.

Here is what happened. Noah is called both El or El Elyon in places. His wife Na'amah is referenced as Asherah or Erets (earth). The 70 sons/grandsons of Noah were the fathers of the 70 nations. Each was an El for their nation. Then Canaan castrated Noah, then Na'amah had additional children by one of the four angels that guarded Eden and there was another group of 'gods'. Baal, Asherah and Molech were of that linage. Noah was displaced in some references and the divine father (ie angel) replaces Noah as El in some references in the Ugaric.

The 70 founding fathers are given authority over their offspring even after death. They rule from Sheol. They are spiritual principalities of the 2nd heaven called the 'host of heaven' all over the OT and worshiped in the paganism along with the sun god (Molech), the moon goddess (Ashtoreth) and the planets (Mars, Venus, Jupiter, ...), the constellations, ... and all are called the 'host of the heavens' and part of the pagan worship.

The Canaanite gods equate with the Greek gods. For example, Anath in the Canaanite pantheon was Neith in the Egyptian and Athena to the Greeks. Molech was the Canaanite sun god who was a destroyer via insect plague. The Philistines called him Baalzebub, the lord over insect plague while the Greeks called him 'The destroyer', ie Apollo, also by insect plague.

So you have Noah and his descendants. You have four angels appointed by Yah on the earth. Then you have the offspring of those four angels. The offspring rebelled against both Noah's and Yah's authority at Babel. The demi-gods were worshipped and the four angels were put in prison for their sins leaving only their offspring behind to rule over the spirits of the dead.

Canaanite worship was ancestor worship. The Canaanites were of the nephilim offspring. Sidon, Canaan's eldest son was a son of Ashtoreth, half brother to Nimrod via his mother. Ashtoreth was the primary deity of the city of Sidon.

It is because of the nephilim bloodlines in the Canaanites that Yah ordered their total extermination. It is also why there was giantism in that bloodline. Those nephilim bloodlines are equated as the tares sown in the field by Satan. The 'field' that Satan sowed his seed was none other then the womb of Asherah, Na'amah, Noah's wife. This is seen in the reference on Mt Pisgah's field of Zophim. Pisgah is a reference to Asherah and a field is an idiom for womb in Hebrew, the place where seed is sown. Zophim is the Hebrew word for Watcher. Watcher is a term for fallen angels. The 'womb of the Watchers' on the Mt dedicated to Asherah was one of the 3 holy places to the Baalim that Balaam offered sacrifices in the attempt to curse Israel.

[Yahu]

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy ... ient-truth

Another problem is with the reference to Bethel meaning 'house of God'. It was most likely Noah's house. The reference to the 'God of Bethel' is a reference to the 'god of Noah'.

According to Jasher, Abram lived his early life with Shem, Eber and Noah. When he left Ur, he went back to Bethel. By that time by the timeline of the genealogies Noah had already died.

Melchizedek was most likely just a title of Shem or Eber who now had inherited the priestly mantel of Yah. He was king of Salem, which later merged with another nearby city of Jeru and became Jerusalem. Of course Abraham gave a tithe to the current high priest of Yah who had succeeded Noah in that role.

EL does NOT mean GOD. In the Paleo-hebrew it is the word picture of 'Strength and Authority'. It is a descriptive TITLE, not a name.

Obviously the author knows very little about the Canaanite religion whereas I knew a high priestess of Ashtoreth over 25 years ago. She explained many of the mysteries of that religion to me. She knew exactly who her goddess was and told me directly that Ashtoreth was the nephilim daughter of one of the four angels bound at Babel that gets let back out during the tribulation. Ashtoreth is the second ranked principality of hell, the twin sister of who Christians call Lucifer. That high priestess was also a very powerful witch. Witchcraft, the control over spiritual forces is a major part of the Canaanite religion. It is all about worship of spirits of the dead.

This is also referenced in scripture. Ritual witchcraft is also a part of Molech worship which was direct Satan worship. Isa 57 is about Baalim worship outside of Jerusalem.

Isa 57:9 And thou wentest to the king (Molech) with ointment, and didst increase thy perfumes, and didst send thy messengers far off, and didst debase thyself even unto hell.

The AV version and KJV use a faulty vowel pointing on the codex they used. Molech and King are the same Hebrew word with differing vowel points. Molech is just vowel pointed to be 'shameful King'. Again, it is NOT a name but a title like Melqart means 'king of the city' in Tire. Again, they are descriptive TITLES not names.

The above verse is about summoning demonic 'messengers' to send on assignment by performing sacrifices to Molech thereby 'debasing thyself to the ruler of hell'. It is a reference to ritual witchcraft conducted in the Baalim worship.

Eze 28 had 3 prophecies to the Prince of Tire, King of Tire and 'she' of Sidon. They are prophecies about the 3 primary dieties of the Pheoncians Baal, Molech/Melqart and Asthoreth. Baal is also a 'god' who dies like a man. They just think they are gods because of their Nephilim bloodline.

Modern day confusion of El with Yah is as common place as that confusion in ancient times. Yes El and Asherah were married BUT many confused El with Yah. Yah was the GOD OF EL, ie the 'god of Noah'.

Sometimes the EL of the Canaanites is a reference to Canaan himself. Sometimes a reference to Noah and sometimes a reference to the angelic consort of Asherah that was the 'father of the gods'. They type of tree planted in the groves was sacred to that angelic El. The location of the groves was a reference to Asherah. The sexual worship in the groves was dedicated to Ashtoreth and Baal her consort while the unwanted offspring were sacrificed in the valley below the grove to Molech.

El was the chief Canaanite god. He was depicted as a kind and gentle being living on a tent on the mountain. From his base, all the waters of the world came.

Waters in the paleo-hebrew and Pheonician are references to people. All over scripture 'waters' are used as people. Even angels are called 'waters above'. Yes El in the above passage is the source of all the 'waters', ie he is the male progenitor of all people, ie Noah.

[Yahu]

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy ... ient-truth

We see here that King Melchizedek is acknowledging Abrams god as his own. They are worshiping the same god. I have previously mentioned that El is referred to as the Most High. Genesis does not give us any explanation how Melchizedek, also a Canaanite priest of El Elyon, would know about Abrams god living in Canaan if one believes they are referring to two different gods. Abram gave his first recorded title to Melchizedeks god, El. It would seem strange that Abram would honor a god but his own.

Melchizedek wasn't a Canaanite! The holy land was given to descendants of Shem as the priestly line while Africa was for those descent of Ham when the land was divided. The Canaanites were squatters on other people's inheritance. They were to settle North Africa, which they did settle as Carthage. Not all that lived in that region were Canaanites. There were many Semitic peoples. Even the language and writing were Semitic.

Melchizedek isn't a name again but a title, a changed name. Often names changed as descriptive titles. It was common practice. Nimrod for example was called Amraphel after the fall of Babel and it meant 'fall of the sayer', ie 'false prophet'. Abram became Abraham. Jacob became Israel.

Melchizedek means 'king of righteousness' who was the 'king of the city of peace'. It is a fitting title for the current high priest of Yah who settled in what is now Jerusalem.

Melchizedek was most likely Shem, the son of Noah. The priestly line went from Noah->Shem->Eber->Abraham->Isaac->Jacob->Levites. Shem and Eber were still alive when Abraham traveled to the region. Bethel was only like 12 miles from Jerusalem where Melchizedek was king.

Now some other nations also had their own high priest of Yah, like Jethro, the father-in-law of Moses who was the high priest for the Midianites but the Midianites were also descent of Abraham. He was the local high priest of Yah, but not of the continued priestly line.

To say that the Israelites took their religion from the Canaanites is utterly ridiculous. That were nothing alike. The Canaanite religious practices were via sexual worship of god and goddess of fertility and practiced ritual prostitution then the sacrifice of the 1st born on the anniversary of a girl being given as ritual prostitute on the pagan holy days. Fertility was a major problem due to the nephilim bloodlines causing many birth defects. Even passing the children through the fires to Molech was a test to see how much angelic like skin they had that was fire resistant but later became sacrifices to Molech because none survived once the bloodlines were diluted.

Yes, because the Israelites disobeyed Yah about the extermination of the Canaanites, many times they mixed in pagan practices with worship of Yah but always the prophets came to correct that error. Monotheism isn't derived from polytheism but the other way around adding additional gods that were mighty individuals. Even with the polytheists, one of their gods was probably a reference to Yah. YHVH wasn't a later god of Israel but one of the gods worshipped by all the nations.

Polytheism didn't arise until the period Babel and got scattered with all the people and into all the different languages. Until the fall of Babel, Canaan and Sidon were captians of Nimrod according to Jasher. They got their religion from Babel in total rebellion against Yah and Noah. Abram learned the ways of Yah in his youth living with Noah until he was 50 while his own father was a pagan as well as captain of Nimrod.

All the pagan gods referenced in scripture are the same group of gods under different names and titles in different languages but they all correlate back to the same family of beings from Babel. For example the Babelonian god Nebo ('the prophet') was Hermes, 'the messenger of god'.

If you want an understanding of the Canaanite paganism, study all the place name meanings in the book of Joshua. It is filled with pagan references.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 25 by ttruscott

Do you believe that God created all humanity in the body of Adam?

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean...

All humanity has descended from Adam...to be a son of Adam is to be a human. Only those who were created in GOD's image who descended into evil are born as human in Adam to receive the judgement of death in him.

Thus Jesus only had to die once for all HIS sinful elect in Adam, not once for each of us, over and over.

[Claire Evans]

For God means Satan is an ally of God. Let's think about it. If a Christian is about to be beheaded by ISIS, do you think Satan asked God for permission first to do so?

Well I journeyed through the mythology reference where various mountains seem to furnish the entertainment of gods. I suppose one can become wrapped up in one's interests to the extent that they intrude on reality.

Satan and God have no place in the atrocities of ISIS and to introduce them is simply to give some credence to the cry, Allah Akbar.

Well, let's ask ourselves: what is the source of all evil?

I assume that we should simply look for evidence in the Bible of Satanic alliances with God and of course we find such in Job. It is amusing to hear that Satan is omniscient, but at least we refrain from giving him a forked tail.

Why should it be amusing that Satan is omniscient? How can he tempt people today if not, according to the Bible?

[Claire Evans]

It makes sense when one realizes that this story is not a Hebrew story. It's Sumerian.


Enki and Enlil were offspring of the Annunaki. There was a great amount of friction between them.
This was originally the symbol for the Anunnaki-Sirian creator god, EA, or EN.KI (who has become an Archetype), was the chief of the magicians, "the one who knows," and infamous for being the serpent of the Garden of Eden who created lifeforms in test tubes half a million years ago with his half-sister Ninharsag, at the suggestion of his son, Marduk, to create humans to be the workers for the gods. (The symbol is also based upon the winged globe for the planet Nibiru, the symbol of the royal Anunnaki family.)

In the Garden of Eden situation, Enlil was furious that Enki permitted humans to have access to knowledge, the mixing of the Anunnaki with human genes, thereby becoming more "godly," and equal to the Anunnaki. To strike back at Enki, and in the attempt to regain his power over humans, Enlil vowed to tarnish Enkis reputation by spreading the idea that the serpent of wisdom was evil. Enlil tried to wipe out knowledge of the DNA coding Enki gave humans, and of what the Anunnaki used in order to have longevity (gold).

Job isn't a Summerian story. Job was a Hebrew but not an Israelite. His friend Eliphaz was Essau's eldest son, also a Hebrew but of mixed Canaanite descent via his mother and a pagan. The timeframe of Job is during the captivity of Israel in Egypt during the later life of Eliphaz.

Didn't say Job was a Sumerian story.

The Annunaki were post flood. Anu (Heavens) and Ki (earth) where titles of Noah and His wife Na'amah and goes back to the covenant of the rainbow between Yah and mankind or Heavens and Earth with Noah and Na'amah as the primary parallel on earth in their covenant. The Anunaki are the offspring of Anu and Ki.

Actually not. This is the Sumerian flood myth that predates the Genesis version:

The Sumerian hero Gilgamesh traveled the world in search of a way to cheat death. On one of his journeys, he came across an old man, Utnapishtim, who told Gilgamesh a story from centuries past. The gods brought a flood that swallowed the earth.

The gods were angry at mankind so they sent a flood to destroy him. The god Ea, warned Utnapishtim and instructed him to build an enormous boat to save himself, his family, and "the seed of all living things." He does so, and the gods brought rain which caused the water to rise for many days. When the rains subsided, the boat landed on a mountain, and Utnapishtim set loose first a dove, then a swallow, and finally a raven, which found land. The god Ishtar, created the rainbow and placed it in the sky, as a reminder to the gods and a pledge to mankind that there would be no more floods. See the text Epic of Gilgamesh: Sumerian Flood Myth.

http://www.historywiz.com/flood.htm

Enlil took after Anu when he was carried off this earth. And Enlil features way back in the Sumerian creation story as I've mentioned.

Even the Summerians had Anu with the consorts of Ki and Nammu (Namma or Na'amah in Hebrew). Ki was just a nickname of Na'amah. Ki, mother earth worship is all rooted in ancestor worship of Na'amah as mother of all mankind and the gods. Noah was displaced as Na'amah's husband after Canaan castrated him and she became the consort of one of the angels that had guarded Eden pre-flood and gave birth to the Nephlilim gods post-flood. So that angel displaced Noah as Anu, the representative of Heavens. The original Anunaki was a reference to Shem, Ham and Japeth but was later replaced with the Nephilim offspring.

She gave birth to the divine Nephilim twins. That would be Apollo and Artemis in the Greek pantheon. Nimrod was a son of the female nephilim, thus a 'mighty man' and the source of his mother's title 'queen of heaven' as queen mother at Babel. Babel was the source of the ancient paganism that got spread into many languages at the fall of the tower. The four angels that cause the post-flood Nephilim were locked up and the ghosts of their dead children took over the realm of the spirits of the dead as the most powerful nephilim spirits. Those four angels are not let back out until the tribulation. Ki was Asherah to the Canaanites with the twins being Molech and Ashtoreth with her son Baal in the Baalim/Canaanite pantheon.

Of course the Greeks called those four angels, Zeus, Poseidon, Hades and Hera.

Correct me if I am wrong but are saying that Noah married into the Annunaki? Of course he must have because Nimrod was was the great-great grandfather of Noah. Don't you think it is odd that God drowns the world of evil people just for Noah to produce evil Nimrod? I thought Noah was a righteous man. The Book of Enoch suggests that Noah was the offspring of the Annunaki:

"And after some days my son, Methuselah, took a wife for his son Lamech, and she became pregnant by him and bore him a son. And his body was white as snow and red as a rose; the hair of his head as white as wool and his demdema (long curly hair) beautiful; and as for his eyes, when he opened them the whole house glowed like the sun ...

And his father, Lamech, was afraid of him and fled and went to Methuselah his father; and he said to him,
I have begotten a strange son. He is not like an (ordinary) human being, but he looks like the children of the angels of heaven to me, his form is different, and he is not like us ... It does not seem to me that he is of me, but of angels..."
These words form the opening lines to what must be one of the most astonishing yet chilling fragments of religious text ever written.

They are the assertions of the antediluvian patriarch Enoch as he describes the sheer distress and horror that accompanied the miraculous birth of a son to his grandson, Lamech. The passage is taken from the Book of Noah, an ancient script of Hebrew origin appended to the more famous Book of Enoch, a pseudepigraphal (i.e. falsely attributed) work, considered by scholars to have been put together in stages during the first half of the second century BC."


The predicament conveyed by these revealing lines seems manifestly clear:
Lamech has recently taken the hand of a woman who has given birth to a child that bears no resemblance whatsoever to its immediate family. His appearance is entirely unlike other human beings, for his skin is white and ruddy, his long curly hair is white and beautiful, while his eyes mysteriously enable the whole house to glow like the sun.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/enoch/esp_enoch_7.htm

There we can see that this implies that Noah is the offspring of a fallen angel/extraterrestrial/Annunaki.

[Claire Evans]

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy ... ient-truth

This article is full of so many errors. Here is an example:

El was the chief Canaanite god. He was depicted as a kind and gentle being living on a tent on the mountain. From his base, all the waters of the world came. He presided over the Assembly of the Gods along with this wife, Asherah. They were the top tier. They were the owners of the universe and it was their duty to establish and appoint rulers of their cosmic world. They begot 70 sons which comprised of the second tier.

El is a title that means 'mighty one' and is not even a name. The El and Asherah and their 70 sons is a reference to Noah, his wife Na'amah and the 70 nations from Noah's sons/grandsons. In this case it isn't even a reference to a god but to ancestor worship. One of Asherah's primary titles confuse the scholars. She is called 'she who treads upon the sea' while being an earth goddess. That title is from her being on the ark with Noah as a survivor of the flood. The Greeks considered her a Titan because she came from the age of the Titans, ie she lived in that pre-flood age of the Titans.




El can be a reference to Yah, or Noah or even to the national El, the one of the 70 national founding fathers. It has to be taken from the context of who is being referenced as El. Sometime the national Els are referenced and Noah is referenced as El Elyon, 'the mightiest of the mighty ones'.

Calling an individual El is like us calling someone 'The President'. It has to be taken in context of 'the president' of what (or when)? The title transfers to different individuals over time.

Baal wasn't even one of the 70 sons. He was Nimrod, the son of Cush by a demi-goddess Ashtoreth.

I need to ask you, did you consult the references? This is crucial. The relevant words are in purple which links to the source. I need your sources as well. There is a Canaanite El and that is a fact. The Old Testament is much influenced by the Ugaritic text:


"The texts which were discovered at Ugarit aroused interest because of their international flavor. That is, the texts were written in one of four languages; Sumerian, Akkadian, Hurritic and Ugaritic. The tablets were found in the royal palace, the house of the High Priest, and some private houses of evidently leading citizens.

These texts, as mentioned above, are very important for Old Testament study. The Ugaritic literature demonstrates that Israel and Ugarit shared a common literary heritage and a common linguistic lineage. They are, in short, related languages and literatures. We can thus learn very much about the one from the other. Our knowledge of the religion of Ancient Syria-Palestine and Canaan has been greatly increased by the Ugaritic materials and their significance cannot be overlooked. We have here, as it were, an open window on the culture and religion of Israel in its earliest period.

El was the chief god at Ugarit. Yet El is also the name of God used in many of the Psalms for Yahweh; or at least that has been the presupposition among pious Christians. Yet when one reads these Psalms and the Ugaritic texts one sees that the very attributes for which Yahweh is acclaimed are the same for which El is acclaimed. In fact, these Psalms were most likely originally Ugaritic or Canaanite hymns to El which were simply adopted by Israel, much like the American National Anthem was set to a beer hall tune by Francis Scott Key. El is called the father of men, creator, and creator of the creation. These attributes are also granted Yahweh by the Old Testament.

For instances, read KTU 1. 2 I 13-32 and compare it to many of the Psalms. Also, read Ps 82:1, 89:6-8mn!).

In 1 Kings 22:19-22 we read of Yahweh meeting with his heavenly council. This is the very description of heaven which one finds in the Ugaritic texts. For in those texts the sons of god are the sons of El.

Other deities worshipped at Ugarit were El Shaddai, El Elyon, and El Berith. All of these names are applied to Yahweh by the writers of the Old Testament. What this means is that the Hebrew theologians adopted the titles of the Canaanite gods and attributed them to Yahweh in an effort to eliminate them. If Yahweh is all of these there is no need for the Canaanite gods to exist! This process is known as assimilation

Besides the chief god at Ugarit there were also lesser gods, demons, and goddesses. The most important of these lesser gods were Baal (familiar to all readers of the Bible), Asherah (also familiar to readers of the Bible), Yam (the god of the sea) and Mot (the god of death). What is of great interest here is that Yam is the Hebrew word for sea and Mot is the Hebrew word for death! Is this because the Hebrews also adopted these Canaanite ideas as well? Most likely they did."

http://www.theology.edu/ugarbib.htm

DEUTERONOMY 32:7 Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations; ask your father, and he will show you; your elders, and they will tell you. 8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when He separated the sons of men, He fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the SONS OF GOD. 9 For the LORD's portion is His people, Jacob His allotted heritage.

This is the correct version of this passage but it mistranslated El as God when it is a reference to Noah. The Most High in this passage is again Noah, the El of the national Els.

Since when? What proof do you have at all that El refers to Noah? How do you know it is a mistranslation? It says El, not Noah. The dead sea scrolls says El. The Most High is a specific reference to El.

"In the Bible, El was the deity worshiped by the Hebrew patriarchs, for example as El Shaddai (God Almighty) or El Elyon (God Most High) before the revelation of his name Yahweh to Moses. But El was also worshiped by non-Israelites, such as Melchizedek (Genesis 14:9)."

So how does this title suddenly get assigned to Noah?

You are saying that Noah assigned the nation yet told Yahweh want portion he could have. Who's the authority here?

It was the sons/grandsons of Noah that the 70 nations were divided among but Yah took Israel, a subset of the Hebrew nation as His inheritance. That was the priestly line.

So Yahweh gets an inheritance from Noah? I also thought that no one knew Yahweh's name before Moses.

That article is so full of ridiculous errors, it isn't worth reading.

Perhaps to you because you are fixed in your ideas.

Here is what happened. Noah is called both El or El Elyon in places. His wife Na'amah is referenced as Asherah or Erets (earth). The 70 sons/grandsons of Noah were the fathers of the 70 nations. Each was an El for their nation. Then Canaan castrated Noah, then Na'amah had additional children by one of the four angels that guarded Eden and there was another group of 'gods'. Baal, Asherah and Molech were of that linage.

Noah was displaced in some references and the divine father (ie angel) replaces Noah as El in some references in the Ugaric.

Source please for above quote.

The 70 founding fathers are given authority over their offspring even after death. They rule from Sheol. They are spiritual principalities of the 2nd heaven called the 'host of heaven' all over the OT and worshiped in the paganism along with the sun god (Molech), the moon goddess (Ashtoreth) and the planets (Mars, Venus, Jupiter, ...), the constellations, ... and all are called the 'host of the heavens' and part of the pagan worship.

This is pretty interesting about you saying the "hosts of heaven" are the pagan gods. The heavenly hosts are the sons of El:

..."That the sons of 'AL (El) may know and the assembly of the stars may understand"...

In Job, 38:7 says:

..."When the morning stars sang together, and shouted for joy all the sons of 'Alohim (YHWH)"...

-JOB 38: 7

If we see El as God, then the pagan gods are actually the offspring of God in the Bible.

The Canaanite gods equate with the Greek gods. For example, Anath in the Canaanite pantheon was Neith in the Egyptian and Athena to the Greeks. Molech was the Canaanite sun god who was a destroyer via insect plague. The Philistines called him Baalzebub, the lord over insect plague while the Greeks called him 'The destroyer', ie Apollo, also by insect plague.

So you have Noah and his descendants. You have four angels appointed by Yah on the earth. Then you have the offspring of those four angels. The offspring rebelled against both Noah's and Yah's authority at Babel. The demi-gods were worshipped and the four angels were put in prison for their sins leaving only their offspring behind to rule over the spirits of the dead.

Canaanite worship was ancestor worship. The Canaanites were of the nephilim offspring. Sidon, Canaan's eldest son was a son of Ashtoreth, half brother to Nimrod via his mother. Ashtoreth was the primary deity of the city of Sidon.

The Israelites absorbed Canaanite worship. In fact, when they went to Canaan, they adopted the practices and the gods.

"However, in time, here was no choosing which god to worship but rather Yahweh and the baals blended into one another. The worship of Yahweh was incorporated into the customs of the high places where the Canaanites worshipped. Cultures living so close together would inevitably contaminate each other.


The prophet, Hosea, was a strict Yahwist and to combat the worship of baals, he insisted on crediting Yahweh with the functions of agriculture (Hosea 2:8-9) which was the baals domain yet lambasted against the worship of them and rightfully so as the Hebrews adopted the Canaanites rituals sexual acts in the shrine of the god to encourage fertility. So sodomy and prostitution bled into Yahweh worship."

It is because of the nephilim bloodlines in the Canaanites that Yah ordered their total extermination. It is also why there was giantism in that bloodline. Those nephilim bloodlines are equated as the tares sown in the field by Satan. The 'field' that Satan sowed his seed was none other then the womb of Asherah, Na'amah, Noah's wife. This is seen in the reference on Mt Pisgah's field of Zophim. Pisgah is a reference to Asherah and a field is an idiom for womb in Hebrew, the place where seed is sown. Zophim is the Hebrew word for Watcher. Watcher is a term for fallen angels. The 'womb of the Watchers' on the Mt dedicated to Asherah was one of the 3 holy places to the Baalim that Balaam offered sacrifices in the attempt to curse Israel.

What instance about Yah ordered their extermination in the Bible? Please give sources next time.

[marco]

Well, let's ask ourselves: what is the source of all evil?

I assume that God, being the Alpha and Omega, is the source of evil. The shepherd who lets wolves into the sheep pen may not be the sheep killer but he is responsible.

Why should it be amusing that Satan is omniscient? How can he tempt people today if not, according to the Bible?

Claire, the entire debate on the capabilities of Satan is amusing in that it is intelligence sprung from ignorance. What God has given God can take away, I am informed, and I should imagine that the gifts he awarded Satan can readily be retrieved. But obviously you espouse Dualism and given we've no cameras on the invisible, we can suppose what we want.

[Yahu]

[Replying to post 38 by Claire Evans]

First off, I have read the Ugaric texts (Baal Cycle) and I have taken Hebrew in college as well as studied paleo-hebrew word pictures and the origins of the word meanings. My professor had a doctorate in Semetic languages. I have confirmed many of my findings with him.

1) El is the paleo-hebrew of aleph (bull's head) symbolizing strength and lamed (Shepard's crook) symbolizing authority. Any individual of 'strength and authority' can hold the title, epithet of El. Noah as the male progenitor of all mankind was a person of great strength and authority during his life. It is totally applicable to call Noah by the epithet El especially when the "EL" referenced is the 'father of men'. EL as the creator is obviously NOT a reference to Noah.

Again, EL is a epithet, NOT A NAME. It can be applied to multiple individuals just as Baal just means 'lord'. It all comes down to the context of the passage. There were many Baalim (plural of Baal) that were NOT the same individual. Ashtoreth is even called Baalah.

YES, El CAN BE a reference to Yah but it is NOT always a reference to Yah. It has to be taken from the individual context of the passage to determine which EL is being referenced. El Elyon, 'Most High', can be a reference to Yah or it can be a reference to Noah when in a passage about other Els. Sons of El can be a reference to 'sons/descent of Noah' or a reference to angels. It all comes down to CONTEXT.

Thinking that EL is the name of a specific individual is ERROR.

The aleph in many of the references to Yah is why the bull symbolism is common in representatives of Yah. Most references used for Yah start with aleph, ie like Elohyim when used in singular context.

El just means 'mighty' and is even translated as mighty in places in scripture. When used by itself it implies 'the Mighty [One]'. So ANY mighty individual can be referenced as EL. When used as a prefix, it also means mighty. El Shaddia means 'the mighty breast' and is a reference to the provision of Yah is like a woman providing for her child in breast feeding, the mighty provider. Again, it isn't a name but a descriptive epithet.

The shepard's crook is also the symbol used by Pharoah's as his symbol of authority, the royal scepter.

In Greek mythology Zeus is also symbolized as a bull. He carried off Europa in the form of a bull. There is even myth that he fathered offspring from that form to create the giant cattle, the Aurochs. Even the Minotaur was the offspring of one of those cattle descent of Zeus. The bull symbolism is common for 'gods'.

In the Canaanite pantheon, Molech is represented as half-bull, half-man (man with a bull's head) showing his mixed lineage, ie Nephilim of bull (godly) and human descent. The part man, part bull is also common in the ancient world sometimes even having angelic wings.

Another symbol is the winged lion. Daniels dream of the kingdoms represented the Babylonian empire as the winged lion that had his wings removed by Yah and had the heart of a man. Who is that winged lion? Early representations of the pagan gods often showed them with feathered arms, ie 'a covering cherub'. The lion and lioness are symbols associated with Molech and Asherah. She is also symbolized by the bear from her sacred grove and the bear is the next reference in Daniel's dream.

2) No, Noah didn't marry into the Anunaki, Noah was the original Anu. The covenant between Heavens and Earth has its origin in the covenant of the rainbow between Yah and Noah. In that covenant Yah was heavens and Noah was earth, ie mankind. The marriage covenant between Noah and his wife Na'amah was the earthly representation/mirror of that covenant thereby Noah got a nickname of Heavens, Anu in the Sumerian and his wife got the nickname of Erets/Ki/Gaia, earth. Anunaki just means 'heavens and earth' and is a reference to their offspring.

In the Hebrew in Eden before Eve was named Eve, she was Adamah, the feminine form of Adam. Adam means 'soil/dirt'. When you put the feminine ending on a Hebrew noun it expands the meaning to a broader meaning. In this case Adamah means 'the land'. This is were a female progenitor is associated with the land.

After the flood, Na'amah was the new female progenitor. She was the 'new Eve'. She wasn't called Adamah but Eretz, ie earth another term meaning the same thing but even broader in expanse. This is where the concept of 'mother earth' comes from. The Canaanite 'mother earth' was Asherah.

If you read the book 'Yahweh and His Asherah', you will note that scholars argue about the source of her common epithet of 'She who treads upon the sea' while being an earth deity. They have no idea of the source of that epithet but if you know she is Noah's wife, it makes perfect sense. She rode out the flood on Noah's ark.

3) The earth was divided in the days of Peleg. It was divided up among the descendants of Noah. In Hebrew 'ben' is often translated as 'son of' but that is not always correct. It means 'descent of' and is also used for grandsons, great-grandsons ... It is common knowledge that scripture recognized 70 nations from the genealogies in Genesis divided among the offspring of Noah during his life. There were 70 bulls sacrificed on the day of atonement for the 70 nations of man while the Israelites were the priesthood for all mankind.

So if the Canaanites equate El and Asherah on the top and their 70 'sons', ie 'male descendants' as the next tier, how does that not directly relate to Noah and his wife Na'amah and the 70 nations that came from them? That certainly identifies that reference to El as Noah! Remember Canaan grew up in Noah's household! Canaan was one of those 70 individuals and apart of the dividing of the earth among those 70 individuals. That authority is earthly authority, not heavenly authority. It was common to equate men of earthly authority as 'gods', ie men of authority.

Canaan was one of those grandsons and the father of a nation, the Canaanites. Eber/Heber was also one of those nations, the Hebrews. But lets not forget that Noah cursed Canaan for the incident of 'uncovering his nakedness'. Ham found Noah but it was his 'youngest son/grandson' that is referenced and Canaan is cursed for the event.

Gen 9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their fathers nakedness.
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

The 'younger son' referenced above is 'grandson Canaan', not Ham! Canaan is the target of Noah's offense. 'Uncovering nakedness' is a term in Hebrew for any sexual shaming event. For example, having sex with a brother's wife was 'uncovering his nakedness'. It doesn't mean Noah was found naked but something shameful had been done to him.

Noah had a DIRECT command from Yah to have more children and fill the earth with his offspring. How many more children did Noah have directly after the flood? NONE according to the genealogies even with a direct command to do so. Why is that? The Rabbinical tradition is that Noah was castrated. It is also the source of the Greek myth of the castration of Uranus which resulted in the creation/birth of Aphrodite. There is a bit of truth to that myth. The castration event did bring about the birth of Aphrodite but not as full grown from the sea. Artemis and Aphrodite were the same goddess. Artemis was her early life and Aphrodite her later life but split into two separate persons in Greek myths to be worshiped under different attributes but the Astarte/Ashtoreth and even the Roman Diana recognized she was the same individual in different stages of her life. The Greek myth had to come up with an origin story that provided a separate creation and associated her with the sea. In actuality, it was the castration of Noah that allowed Na'amah to take on another consort.

Even the triune goddess of witchcraft with her 3 faces of maiden, mother and crone, two of those faces, maiden and mother are for the two personas of Ashtoreth while the crone is the 'very old woman' is none other the Na'amah who was already over 600 years old at the time of the flood. She was by far the eldest woman alive and considered a titaness by the Greeks.

4) The OT is not influenced by the Ugaric texts. They have their root in the same events so obviously there is some major overlap. Yes, Moses wrote the Torah after the fact but that does not imply that he uses those Ugaric texts as his source but they have similar roots in actual events.

So what if the Canaanites equate El and Asherah as 'gods' with their 70 sons being the next level of godly authority. The truth of the actual events is often biased by the society as time goes on. The pagan myths are a mixture of historic events and embellishments and outright lies to hide the actual truth. The entire point was to justify their rebellion against Noah as the ultimate authority and that didn't take long.

EL isn't a name but a descriptive title of a mighty individual.
Molech isn't a name but a title meaning 'shameful king'. Also like Melqart, 'king of the city' of Tire. Or Milcam ...
Ashtoreth isn't a name but a title meaning 'shameful star, ie Venus'.
Baal isn't a name but a title meaning 'lord' and MANY individuals held a title of 'lord of this or that'. Usually is was Lord of an attribute like Baalgad, 'lord of fortune'.
Baalim is a reference to the ENTIRE pantheon of" Baal"s/"Baalah"s (Baaloth).

When Baal is used by itself, it is often a reference to Nimrod as ruler from Babel. The spirit of Nimrod, Baal, is referenced as 'the anti-christ spirit' in the NT. He is 'prince of the powers of the air', the realm of the 2nd heaven.

5) Yah didn't inherit from Noah, He took the priestly line as His, separate from the 70 national ELs. He was the direct authority over His priesthood instead of Eber/Heber the father of the Hebrews. The Israelites were a separation from among the broader family of Hebrews that carried the priestly line of Yah as a separate nation under His direct authority as 'their God' ,'their El' with a more specific covenant with them as His representatives among all the 70 nations of the earth. They were the priesthood for all nations and why they offered sacrifices for all 70 nations. Yah TOOK His priesthood from among the 'sons of Noah' as a separate nation.

So why on earth would we concerned with the Ugaric priestly knowledge when they were not even qualified as part of the priesthood. Canaan was even cursed by Noah. Their priesthood was corrupted and deeply involved with ancestor worship, sexual worship and witchcraft. This can be seen easily in Job. Job's so-called friends were pagans that followed other gods. Eliphaz was a sun-god worshiper for example and claimed his god traverses the sky but can't see through dark clouds. Eliphaz was Hebrew by his father but had a Canaanite mother. One of those friends tells Job to get an ancestral spirit guide.

Job 8:8 For enquire, I pray thee, of the former age, and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers:
9 (For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow:)
10 Shall not they teach thee, and tell thee, and utter words out of their heart?

Later Job asked him, 'what spirit is speaking through you?'.

That is an example of the Canaanite ancestor worship to summon ancestral spirit guides from the 'former age' who are ancient compared to living old men.

6)

Of course he must have because Nimrod was was the great-great grandfather of Noah.

I have NO IDEA where you got this? Nimrod was the son of Cush, son of Ham, son of Noah. Did you mean 'great-grandson' of Noah? Nimrod was a 'mighty man'. That term is also used for the offspring of the pre-flood Watchers. They begot giants and 'mighty men'. Nimrod didn't get that status from his male lineage but via his mother's lineage.

Ashtoreth got the title of 'queen of heaven/sky' as being queen mother at Babel ruling from the top of the tower. She was Nimrod's mother and worshiped as a goddess. He was the original divine child of the divine mother, the anti-christ in opposition to the authority of Yah who was elevated to a god, ie Baal after his death. He is also referenced as Tammuz, Orion and Amraphel in scripture.

Baal was both son of and consort of Ashtoreth, his own mother. The entire point was to keep the nephilim bloodline as pure as possible without diluting that nephilim bloodline. Ashtoreth was 1/2 angelic by birth. Asherah her mother was fully human but the female progenitor of all mankind. Molech and Ashtoreth were twins, both 1/2 nephilim making Nimrod 1/4 of angelic descent since his father Cush was human.

Molech was the Canaanite sun-god, Apollo of the Greeks while Ashtoreth was both Artemis, his twin and Aphrodite, the great whore of Babel. She is both moon goddess via her persona of Artemis and goddess of the sea via her persona of Aphrodite. The moon has influence over the sea, ie tides.

Yam is just the Canaanite reference to Poseidon while Mot is the Canaanite Hades.

Of course there is a lot of confusion even in the later Canaanite religion. There were so many different individuals involved. You have Noah and his wife as human progenitors. You have the four angels that interacted with mankind. Those angels had realm over the air, the sea and the earth. Then the shameful king at Babel sets his throne above the 'stars of Yah' who himself is a son of 'the Morning' a Canaanite title of a 'son of El' (in this case EL is a reference to Yah). It is the 'Morning Stars' that sing at the laying of the foundation of the earth and lead the 'ben Elohyim' (the actual angels of Yah) in song. The 'shameful king' of Babel, the Canaanite Molech is who is called Lucifer in the Latin, the uncle of Nimrod. The four angels are displaced and imprisoned at the casting down of the tower. The realm of air (2nd heaven) is taken by Baal. The sea is taken by Ashtoreth. Hell is taken by Molech while earth is the realm of their esteemed mother Asherah. She rules over spirits of purely human descent.

Then of course you have the other children of the four angles like Anath, ie Athena who were also among the Baalim. You even have another mighty man that was one of the later judges of Israel who was a son of Anath.

Jud 3:31 And after him was Shamgar the son of Anath, which slew of the Philistines six hundred men with an ox goad: and he also delivered Israel.

Anath was in conflict against many of the others but is later displaced and confused with Ashtoreth in the Ugaric writings. Anath was the virgin goddess of virtue that refused to have children. She later castrated her own son to keep him from having offspring. That son was conceived via rape against her will. That son was a later judge of Israel.

There are few references to Anath in scripture. Most are in place names like Anathoth and Bethanath. Another reference is via her Egyptian name Neith. Joseph married Aceneth (worshiper of Neith).