Are God and Satan allies?

[Claire Evans]

We have the story of Job:

"One day when the sons of God came before Jehovah, Satan came with them. Jehovah said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Satan answered, "From going back and forth on the earth, and walking up and down on it." And Jehovah said to Satan, "Have you seen my servant Job? For there is no man like him on the ea rth, blameless and upright, who reveres God and avoids evil." Satan answered, "But is it for nothing that Job reveres God? Have you not yourself made a hedge all about him, about his household, and about all that he has? You have blessed whatever he does, and his possessions have greatly increased. But just put out your hand now and take away all he has; he certainly will curse you to your face." Then Jehovah said to Satan, "See, everything that he has is in your power; only do not lay hands on Job himself." So Satan left the presence of Jehovah."

Clearly Satan and God are allies in this story.

Then we have Jesus who said in John 8:44

"You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

Clearly Jesus is not being portrayed as being an ally of Satan. If they were, God would be giving Satan the power to deceive because that is what He would have wanted. This is not in accordance with the gospels. The Lord's Prayer goes, "Lead us not into temptation and deliver us from evil."

This means that God would never use Satan to tempt us and will not purposely put evil in our way because Jesus is asking Him to deliver us from evil.

How do we reconcile this? It's clear that it's because Jews do not believe the devil is evil. To Jews, he is merely a "prosecuting attorney", there only to make people's lives miserable to lead us to God.
We also know that Satan is an omniscient being who is omnipresent. Yet Jews reject this outright. They see that as a negation of monotheism.

There is a incongruity between the Satan in the New Testament and Satan in the OT. Is it because the God in the OT is not the Father of Jesus?

[Yahu]

Why should it be amusing that Satan is omniscient? How can he tempt people today if not, according to the Bible?

Satan isn't omniscient. He doesn't directly deal with tempting everyone but sits in a place of authority directing other spirit minions. He is just the overall ruling spirit over those in opposition to Yah and just the ghost of a dead half-breed nephilim.

He only has authority over those that have violated Yah's law so he can carry out their sentence as ordained by Yah. His minions try to get people to violate those laws to give them the right to impose the sentence.

This is why he had to ask for permission to come against Job. Job wasn't guilty of any violation of Yah's law. Job had a hedge of protection as a result. It was Yah that brought Job up and let HaSatan attack Job with special permission for a purpose.

Once you see that purpose was to free Israel from Egypt and focus HaSatan's attack on Job it just goes to show that HaSatan was used as a tool. Job's suffering helped bring about the Exodus then Job is rewarded.

HaSatan was duped into bringing about the plagues on Egypt in his attacks on Job.

[ttruscott]

Well, let's ask ourselves: what is the source of all evil?

I assume that God, being the Alpha and Omega, is the source of evil. The shepherd who lets wolves into the sheep pen may not be the sheep killer but he is responsible.

Not if the wolves are self made by their free will choice against HIS plan.

[marco]

I assume that God, being the Alpha and Omega, is the source of evil. The shepherd who lets wolves into the sheep pen may not be the sheep killer but he is responsible.

Not if the wolves are self made by their free will choice against HIS plan.

My metaphor makes immediate sense as an illustration of responsibility for evil.

I have never heard of a self-made wolf though I have heard of self-made millionaires. Again, your idea that creatures actually rebelled against a plan orchestrated by a being capable of wiping them out says very little for the IQ of the rebels. I hope there is some continuity in intelligence between our present and our pre-existence personae. I would hate to think I was a pre-existent idiot.

[marco]

Once you see that purpose was to free Israel from Egypt and focus HaSatan's attack on Job it just goes to show that HaSatan was used as a tool. Job's suffering helped bring about the Exodus then Job is rewarded.

I find it delightful how extravagant theories can be expressed in terms approximating certainty. I wonder if Egyptologists would endorse views about the captivity of Israel.

HaSatan was duped into bringing about the plagues on Egypt in his attacks on Job.

It is amazing that we earthlings have such intimate details of a parallel universe in which Satan plays Malvolio.

[Claire Evans]

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy ... ient-truth

We see here that King Melchizedek is acknowledging Abrams god as his own. They are worshiping the same god. I have previously mentioned that El is referred to as the Most High. Genesis does not give us any explanation how Melchizedek, also a Canaanite priest of El Elyon, would know about Abrams god living in Canaan if one believes they are referring to two different gods. Abram gave his first recorded title to Melchizedeks god, El. It would seem strange that Abram would honor a god but his own.

Melchizedek wasn't a Canaanite! The holy land was given to descendants of Shem as the priestly line while Africa was for those descent of Ham when the land was divided. The Canaanites were squatters on other people's inheritance. They were to settle North Africa, which they did settle as Carthage. Not all that lived in that region were Canaanites. There were many Semitic peoples. Even the language and writing were Semitic.

Yes, he was. Josephus, a Jewish historian, said that Mechizedek was a Canaanite chief.

https://books.google.co.za/books?id=eXM ... ws&f=false

Melchizedek was the King of Salem. The word Salem comes from the astral deity Salim

https://books.google.co.za/books?id=yCk ... ty&f=false


Shalim (Shalem, Salem, and Salim) is a god in the Canaanite religion pantheon, mentioned in inscriptions found in Ugarit (Ras Shamra) in Syria.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shalim

And, no, the Canaanites weren't squatters. They were there first.

Melchizedek isn't a name again but a title, a changed name. Often names changed as descriptive titles. It was common practice. Nimrod for example was called Amraphel after the fall of Babel and it meant 'fall of the sayer', ie 'false prophet'. Abram became Abraham. Jacob became Israel.

Melchizedek means 'king of righteousness' who was the 'king of the city of peace'. It is a fitting title for the current high priest of Yah who settled in what is now Jerusalem.

Melchizedek was most likely Shem, the son of Noah. The priestly line went from Noah->Shem->Eber->Abraham->Isaac->Jacob->Levites. Shem and Eber were still alive when Abraham traveled to the region. Bethel was only like 12 miles from Jerusalem where Melchizedek was king.

Now some other nations also had their own high priest of Yah, like Jethro, the father-in-law of Moses who was the high priest for the Midianites but the Midianites were also descent of Abraham. He was the local high priest of Yah, but not of the continued priestly line.

Could be Shem but it's debatable.

To say that the Israelites took their religion from the Canaanites is utterly ridiculous. That were nothing alike. The Canaanite religious practices were via sexual worship of god and goddess of fertility and practiced ritual prostitution then the sacrifice of the 1st born on the anniversary of a girl being given as ritual prostitute on the pagan holy days. Fertility was a major problem due to the nephilim bloodlines causing many birth defects. Even passing the children through the fires to Molech was a test to see how much angelic like skin they had that was fire resistant but later became sacrifices to Molech because none survived once the bloodlines were diluted.

What? Don't you know that the Israelites worshiped baals in Canaan when they reached the "Promised Land"?


"However, in time, here was no choosing which god to worship but rather Yahweh and the baals blended into one another. The worship of Yahweh was incorporated into the customs of the high places where the Canaanites worshipped. Cultures living so close together would inevitably contaminate each other.



The prophet, Hosea, was a strict Yahwist and to combat the worship of baals, he insisted on crediting Yahweh with the functions of agriculture (Hosea 2:8-9) which was the baals domain yet lambasted against the worship of them and rightfully so as the Hebrews adopted the Canaanites rituals sexual acts in the shrine of the god to encourage fertility. So sodomy and prostitution bled into Yahweh worship."

See Chapter 3 in below link:

http://www.religion-online.org/showchap ... =545&C=649

And did you know the Bible was revised to attempt to distance the Israelites from pagan worship? Baal worship was normal back then.


"There were instances where Yahweh and Baal were interchangeable in the Bible. Previously, Baal occurred as an element in a number of compound proper names such as Jerubbaal, Ishbaal and Meribaal.

The Bible suggests that David saw Baal as one and the same:

2 Samuel 5:20


So David went to Baal Perazim, and there he defeated them. He said, "As waters break out, the LORD has broken out against my enemies before me." So that place was called Baal Perazim.

David did not name Baal Perazim after Yahweh. Therefore we can assume David believed they were one and the same. More evidence can be found in 1 Chronicles 12:4-6:

4and Ishmaiah the Gibeonite, a mighty man among the thirty, and over the thirty. Then Jeremiah, Jahaziel, Johanan, Jozabad the Gederathite, 5Eluzai, Jerimoth, Bealiah, Shemariah, Shephatiah the Haruphite, 6Elkanah, Isshiah, Azarel, Joezer, Jashobeam, the Korahites,

As you can see, Bealiah is one of Davids warriors. Bealiah, whereby the first part means Baal. In fact, Baali, from the Strongs Hebrew Lexicon, means:

1180 Baaliy bah-al-ee' from 1167 with pron. suff.; my master; Baali, a symbolical name for Jehovah:--Baali.

1180 is linked to 1167 which reads:

1167 baal bah'-al from 1166; a master; hence, a husband, or (figuratively) owner (often used with another noun in modifications of this latter sense):--+ archer, + babbler, + bird, captain, chief man, + confederate, + have to do, + dreamer, those to whom it is due, + furious, those that are given to it, great, + hairy, he that hath it, have, + horseman, husband, lord, man, + married, master, person, + sworn, they of.
1168 Baal bah'-al the same as 1167; Baal, a Phoenician deity:--Baal, (plural) Baalim.


http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/STRHEB11.htm

Ishbaal was one of King Sauls sons. He had compounded the names of his son with Baal as every other Israelite had done. Baal and Yahweh were the same. However, when Baal fell into disrepute, again Jewish redactors changed Ishabaal to Ishbosheth. Bosheth means, Shameful thing, referring to Baal.

Yes, because the Israelites disobeyed Yah about the extermination of the Canaanites, many times they mixed in pagan practices with worship of Yah but always the prophets came to correct that error. Monotheism isn't derived from polytheism but the other way around adding additional gods that were mighty individuals. Even with the polytheists, one of their gods was probably a reference to Yah. YHVH wasn't a later god of Israel but one of the gods worshipped by all the nations.

The prophets intervened because the Canaanite religion was in competition with Yahweh worship. Suddenly Yahweh was attributed with the qualities of the baal.

No, polytheism existed first. Monolatrism existed before monotheism:

monolatry
/mnltr/
noun
1.
the exclusive worship of one god without excluding the existence of others


http://www.dictionary.com/browse/monolatry

" Israelites were monolatrists just prior to Babylonian exile. They did not deny the existence of all the many gods worshipped by others, but they as a people choose to worship one and only one God. (It is traditional in English to capitalize the g in God when denoting the one God of a monotheistic religion, but to indicate the gods of a polytheistic religion by writing god with a lowercase g.) When the Israelites were living as exiles in Babylon, however, they were awash in polytheism, as it were, with the worship of the many Babylonian gods going on around them every day and with the monumental ziggurat of Marduk dominating the skyline. As almost a means of self-preservation of their religion, the Israelites started to posit that their one God was actually the only true god in existence, while all the many gods worshipped in Babylon and elsewhere were really not gods at all. In this way the Israelites became monotheists, believing in the existence of one and only one god. Scholars mark this transformation of Israelite religion to one of monotheism by renaming the Israelites after the Babylonian Exile Jews . Although the Jews who returned to Jerusalem after the Babylonian Exile built a new temple for their God, their religion" which from this point on is called Judaism "had changed dramatically in the nearly fifty years away from home."

https://www.coursehero.com/file/p4oma1/ ... -They-did/

Polytheism didn't arise until the period Babel and got scattered with all the people and into all the different languages. Until the fall of Babel, Canaan and Sidon were captians of Nimrod according to Jasher. They got their religion from Babel in total rebellion against Yah and Noah. Abram learned the ways of Yah in his youth living with Noah until he was 50 while his own father was a pagan as well as captain of Nimrod.

All the pagan gods referenced in scripture are the same group of gods under different names and titles in different languages but they all correlate back to the same family of beings from Babel. For example the Babelonian god Nebo ('the prophet') was Hermes, 'the messenger of god'.

If you want an understanding of the Canaanite paganism, study all the place name meanings in the book of Joshua. It is filled with pagan references.

I beg to differ. We have references to more than one god in Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

[marco]

I beg to differ. We have references to more than one god in Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

There is nothing in this to suggest a variety of gods. Its anticipatory verse 25 says:

"And God made the beast of the earth after his kind and cattle after its kind, and every living thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good."

The humble worm and grass-snake and caterpillar were hardly gods. Man was given dominion over the creepy things as well.

But perhaps you mean that each time GOD is mentioned, it refers to a different god.
Fascinating.

[Claire Evans]

I beg to differ. We have references to more than one god in Genesis 1:26

Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

There is nothing in this to suggest a variety of gods. Its anticipatory verse 25 says:

"And God made the beast of the earth after his kind and cattle after its kind, and every living thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good."

The humble worm and grass-snake and caterpillar were hardly gods. Man was given dominion over the creepy things as well.

But perhaps you mean that each time GOD is mentioned, it refers to a different god.
Fascinating.

Actually, the literal translation of the OT refers to God as many gods. It's just that when Judaism became monotheistic, that it was changed to God.

[Claire Evans]

http://hubpages.com/religion-philosophy ... ient-truth

Another problem is with the reference to Bethel meaning 'house of God'. It was most likely Noah's house. The reference to the 'God of Bethel' is a reference to the 'god of Noah'.

According to Jasher, Abram lived his early life with Shem, Eber and Noah. When he left Ur, he went back to Bethel. By that time by the timeline of the genealogies Noah had already died.

Then you are saying Noah's house was named after the Canaanite house of the god Berith. Therefore Noah's god is the god Bethel.

http://www.abarim-publications.com/Mean ... Cgeki197IU

Melchizedek was most likely just a title of Shem or Eber who now had inherited the priestly mantel of Yah. He was king of Salem, which later merged with another nearby city of Jeru and became Jerusalem. Of course Abraham gave a tithe to the current high priest of Yah who had succeeded Noah in that role.

EL does NOT mean GOD. In the Paleo-hebrew it is the word picture of 'Strength and Authority'. It is a descriptive TITLE, not a name.

El does mean God. El was a deity worshiped by the Canaanites.


The word is derived from the Proto-Semitic archaic biliteral "L, meaning "god". Specific deities known as El or Il include the supreme god of the Canaanite religion, the supreme god of the Mesopotamian Semites in the pre-Sargonic period, and the god of the Hebrew Bible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity)

It can apply to people of influence but the Deuteronomy verse refers to Elyon, not El

"Elyon (Biblical Hebrew ; Masoretic Elyn; traditionally rendered in Samaritan as illiyyon[citation needed]) is an epithet of the God of the Israelites in the Hebrew Bible. l Elyn is usually rendered in English as "God Most High", and similarly in the Septuagint as " " ("God the highest")."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elyon


http://biblehub.com/text/deuteronomy/32-8.htm

Obviously the author knows very little about the Canaanite religion whereas I knew a high priestess of Ashtoreth over 25 years ago. She explained many of the mysteries of that religion to me. She knew exactly who her goddess was and told me directly that Ashtoreth was the nephilim daughter of one of the four angels bound at Babel that gets let back out during the tribulation. Ashtoreth is the second ranked principality of hell, the twin sister of who Christians call Lucifer. That high priestess was also a very powerful witch. Witchcraft, the control over spiritual forces is a major part of the Canaanite religion. It is all about worship of spirits of the dead.

Did she tell you that YHWH is from witchcraft?


"In an attempt to use divine power, magicians used various biblical names and titles of God in their incantations. These included El, Elohim, Eloah, Adonai, Sabaoth, and Shaddai. But the one name which came closer to the inner reality of the God of the Old Testament was the Tetragrammaton, the YHWH. It was held in such profound awe that it was rarely pronounced for fear of profaning it and possibly for fear of the magic of enemies if they should discover its pronunciation. This belief led to a theological problem. If God could be coerced by the use of his name, then he was not omnipotent. Therefore, a magical explanation was advanced to solve the problem. The invocation of God's name does not oblige him to do the will of the one who invokes his name, and he cannot be coerced by the recital of his name. Rather, the 'name' itself is invested with the power to fulfill the desire of the man who pronounces it." (Cavendish, article 'Names'.)

The Tetragrammation is a four letter word to cover all the spelling of God in witchcraft:

https://books.google.co.za/books?id=0wj ... ge&q=chant 4 letter tetragrammaton witch&f=false

This is an invocation from the Lesser Key of Solomon:

"I DO invocate and conjure thee, O Spirit, N. 1; and being with power armed from the SUPREME MAJESTY, I do strongly command thee, by BERALANENSIS, BALDACHIENSIS, PAUMACHIA, and APOLOGIAE SEDES; by the most Powerful Princes, Genii, Liachid, and Ministers of the Tartarean Abode; and by the Chief Prince of the Seat of Apologia in the Ninth Legion, I do invoke thee, and by invocating conjure thee. And being armed with power from the SUPREME MAJESTY, I do strongly command thee, by Him Who spake and it was done, and unto whom all creatures be obedient. Also I, being made after the image of GOD, endued with power from GOD and created according unto His will, do exorcise thee by that most mighty and powerful name of GOD, EL, strong and wonderful; O thou Spirit N. And I command thee and Him who spake the Word and His FIAT was accomplished, and by all the names of God. Also by the names ADONAI, EL, ELOHIM, ELOHI, EHYEH, ASHER EHYEH, ZABAOTH, ELION, IAH, TETRAGRAMMATON, SHADDAI, LORD GOD MOST HIGH, I do exorcise thee and do powerfully command thee, O thou Spirit N., that thou dost forthwith"

appear unto me here before this Circle in a fair human shape, without any deformity or tortuosity. And by this ineffable name, TETRAGRAMMATON IEHOVAH, do I command thee, at the which being heard the elements are overthrown, the air is shaken, the sea runneth back, the fire is quenched, the earth trembleth, and all the hosts of the celestials, terrestrials, and infernals, do tremble together, and are troubled and confounded. Wherefore come thou, O Spirit N., forthwith, and without delay, from any or all parts of the world wherever thou mayest be, and make rational answers unto all things that I shall demand of thee. Come thou peaceably, visibly, and affably, now, and without delay, manifesting that which I shall desire. For thou art conjured by the name of the LIVING and TRUE GOD, HELIOREN, wherefore fulfil thou my commands, and persist thou therein unto the end, and according unto mine interest, visibly and affably speaking unto me with a voice clear and intelligible without any ambiguity.

REPEAT this conjuration as often as thou pleasest, and if the Spirit come not yet, say as followeth:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/grim/lks/lks17.htm



The Lesser Key of Solomon was written by Satanist, Aleister Crowley.

This is also referenced in scripture. Ritual witchcraft is also a part of Molech worship which was direct Satan worship. Isa 57 is about Baalim worship outside of Jerusalem.

Isa 57:9 And thou wentest to the king (Molech) with ointment, and didst increase thy perfumes, and didst send thy messengers far off, and didst debase thyself even unto hell.

The AV version and KJV use a faulty vowel pointing on the codex they used. Molech and King are the same Hebrew word with differing vowel points. Molech is just vowel pointed to be 'shameful King'. Again, it is NOT a name but a title like Melqart means 'king of the city' in Tire. Again, they are descriptive TITLES not names.

The above verse is about summoning demonic 'messengers' to send on assignment by performing sacrifices to Molech thereby 'debasing thyself to the ruler of hell'. It is a reference to ritual witchcraft conducted in the Baalim worship.

Wow, sounds just like Yahweh invocation!

Eze 28 had 3 prophecies to the Prince of Tire, King of Tire and 'she' of Sidon. They are prophecies about the 3 primary dieties of the Pheoncians Baal, Molech/Melqart and Asthoreth. Baal is also a 'god' who dies like a man. They just think they are gods because of their Nephilim bloodline.

Modern day confusion of El with Yah is as common place as that confusion in ancient times. Yes El and Asherah were married BUT many confused El with Yah. Yah was the GOD OF EL, ie the 'god of Noah'.

Here's something about Yah that I don't think you know about:

"A letter found in a mound northwest of the modern town of Ta'annek written in the fifth century B.C. proves that 'Yah'was a deity of the Canaanites. Yah is associated with the Canaanitish Mother-goddess, Ashtart-Anat as seen by the Father-Mother titles of the deity of the Jews at Elephantine. There, the title of Anat-Yaw is seen as well as Ashim-Bethel and Afat-Bethel where the titles of Astarte are combined with the Sun-god, Bethel. At Gaza, Yah appears as a Sun-god on a coin and coins were frequently inscribed with the figure of Ashtart-Yaw, Anat-Yaw, and Anat-Bethel, which corresponds to the Phoenician Melk-Ashtart and Eshmun-Ashtart" - The Mythology Of All Races, Vol. 5, p. 44.

"Yah was identified with the Aramaic Thunder-god, Adad. A coin from the fourth century B.C. in southern Philisti (when the Jews were in subjection to the Persian kings) has the only known representation of the Hebrew Deity. The letters YHW were inscribed just above a bird which the god held on his arm. The most likely identification of the god Yah of Gaza is the Hebrew, Phoenician, and Aramaic Sun-god El or Elohim whom the Hebrews had long since identified with Yah." (ibid., pp. 42-43).

"The collection of ancient manuscripts found at the Jewish colony of Elephantine demonstrates the use of Canaanite religious terminology in conjunction with the name of Israel's God Yahu. Such compound names as Anath-Yahu, Anath-Bethel, Ishum-Bethel, and Herem-Bethel are found there. These names all represent the attempt to combine differing philosophies and religious beliefs that were prevalent in the centuries following the Israelite conquest of Canaan. For example, Anath was the ancient Canaanite goddess, the sister of Baal (Bruce, p. 53), and Baal was one of the ancient names for Nimrod." (Hislop, p. 232).

"It was from the divine name Yah that the Greeks took 'Ie' in the invocations of the gods, especially the god Apollo. The name 'Ie' was written from right to left and inscribed over the great door of the temple of Apollo at Delphi (Taylor, p. 183). Iao, a variant of the Tetragrammaton, was applied to the Graeco-Egyptian god Harpocrates or Horus. Horus was called Harpocrates by the Greeks. The ancient Greeks had an acclamation similar to Hallelujah (Praise you Yah). They used Hallulujee in the beginning and ending of their hymns in honor of Apollo." - Taylor, p. 183. Source: http://www.bibleresearch.org/law/sacredname.html

"Many Vedic chants of praise also contain Yah, e.g. Rama-yah, Isha-ya (Yah my Divine Husband), Jai-ya (Yah as joy); Shiva-ya (Yah is purity, holiness, truth); Krishna ya (Yah is the transcendental loving Witness); Vishnu yah (Yah is all pervasive Light); Kali ya (Yah is the creative manifesting force or energy)." etc. etc.
Source: http://www.corplink.com.au/~roman/Sacred.html


http://www.godstruenames.com/THE-YAH-DECEPTION.php


Yah is a symbolic name for baal:

Strong's Hebrew
1180. Bali -- "my Baal," a symbolic name for Yah
... "my Baal," a symbolic name for Yah. Transliteration: Bali Phonetic Spelling:
(bah-al-ee')



http://biblehub.com/topical/b/baali.htm

Sometimes the EL of the Canaanites is a reference to Canaan himself. Sometimes a reference to Noah and sometimes a reference to the angelic consort of Asherah that was the 'father of the gods'. They type of tree planted in the groves was sacred to that angelic El. The location of the groves was a reference to Asherah. The sexual worship in the groves was dedicated to Ashtoreth and Baal her consort while the unwanted offspring were sacrificed in the valley below the grove to Molech.

Ashtoreth/Asherah surely got around. She was also the consort of Yahweh.


Everything about it has been difficult. Located in the Sinai desert about 10 miles west of the ancient Gaza Road (Darb Ghazza, in Arabic) as it passes through Bedouin territory separating the Negev from Egypt, Kuntillet Ajrud is remote and isolated from any other settlement. In 1975, Tel Aviv University archaeologist Zeev Meshel and a band of nine volunteers, mostly from kibbutzim and a few colleagues as staff, decided to excavate at the site.
The finds from Kuntillet Ajrud were fantastic. The zingers were two large pithoi, or storage jars, that weighed about 30 pounds each. The now-reconstructed pithoi are painted with deities, humans, animals and symbols, and feature a number of inscriptions, including three that refer to Yahweh and his asherah or Asherah, depending on your interpretation. Asherah is a pagan goddess. Was she Gods wife?

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/dail ... n-god-bes/

El was the chief Canaanite god. He was depicted as a kind and gentle being living on a tent on the mountain. From his base, all the waters of the world came.

Waters in the paleo-hebrew and Pheonician are references to people. All over scripture 'waters' are used as people. Even angels are called 'waters above'. Yes El in the above passage is the source of all the 'waters', ie he is the male progenitor of all people, ie Noah.

That's because the Israelites were influenced by the Canaanites beliefs.

[Claire Evans]

[Replying to post 38 by Claire Evans]

First off, I have read the Ugaric texts (Baal Cycle) and I have taken Hebrew in college as well as studied paleo-hebrew word pictures and the origins of the word meanings. My professor had a doctorate in Semetic languages. I have confirmed many of my findings with him.

And you assume everything he was taught is correct? And since you have read the Ugaritic texts, why do you disregard the part of El and his seventy sons?

1) El is the paleo-hebrew of aleph (bull's head) symbolizing strength and lamed (Shepard's crook) symbolizing authority. Any individual of 'strength and authority' can hold the title, epithet of El. Noah as the male progenitor of all mankind was a person of great strength and authority during his life. It is totally applicable to call Noah by the epithet El especially when the "EL" referenced is the 'father of men'. EL as the creator is obviously NOT a reference to Noah.

Interesting that El represents a bull. Yahweh and El are bull gods. So it is very obvious that the Israelites were influenced by Canaanite beliefs.

Again, EL is a epithet, NOT A NAME. It can be applied to multiple individuals just as Baal just means 'lord'. It all comes down to the context of the passage. There were many Baalim (plural of Baal) that were NOT the same individual. Ashtoreth is even called Baalah.

It may be a title but there is no doubt that El in the context of the Canaanite belief that it was god of all gods.

YES, El CAN BE a reference to Yah but it is NOT always a reference to Yah. It has to be taken from the individual context of the passage to determine which EL is being referenced. El Elyon, 'Most High', can be a reference to Yah or it can be a reference to Noah when in a passage about other Els. Sons of El can be a reference to 'sons/descent of Noah' or a reference to angels. It all comes down to CONTEXT.

El used alone can refer to a person but there is another, like Elyon, to differentiate it between false gods/people.

El Elyon means the "Most High God".

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Names_ ... El/el.html

Thinking that EL is the name of a specific individual is ERROR.

True.

The aleph in many of the references to Yah is why the bull symbolism is common in representatives of Yah. Most references used for Yah start with aleph, ie like Elohyim when used in singular context.

El just means 'mighty' and is even translated as mighty in places in scripture. When used by itself it implies 'the Mighty [One]'. So ANY mighty individual can be referenced as EL. When used as a prefix, it also means mighty. El Shaddia means 'the mighty breast' and is a reference to the provision of Yah is like a woman providing for her child in breast feeding, the mighty provider. Again, it isn't a name but a descriptive epithet.

The shepard's crook is also the symbol used by Pharoah's as his symbol of authority, the royal scepter.

Yes, El is a prefix, I see. So if El was used in the Deuteronomy passage, it could refer to a person. But it does not. It's El Elyon.

In Greek mythology Zeus is also symbolized as a bull. He carried off Europa in the form of a bull. There is even myth that he fathered offspring from that form to create the giant cattle, the Aurochs. Even the Minotaur was the offspring of one of those cattle descent of Zeus. The bull symbolism is common for 'gods'.

In the Canaanite pantheon, Molech is represented as half-bull, half-man (man with a bull's head) showing his mixed lineage, ie Nephilim of bull (godly) and human descent. The part man, part bull is also common in the ancient world sometimes even having angelic wings.

Another symbol is the winged lion. Daniels dream of the kingdoms represented the Babylonian empire as the winged lion that had his wings removed by Yah and had the heart of a man. Who is that winged lion? Early representations of the pagan gods often showed them with feathered arms, ie 'a covering cherub'. The lion and lioness are symbols associated with Molech and Asherah. She is also symbolized by the bear from her sacred grove and the bear is the next reference in Daniel's dream.[/quote]


Just proves that El, the Canaanite god, and Yahweh are just mere pagan gods. They are all bulls.

2) No, Noah didn't marry into the Anunaki, Noah was the original Anu. The covenant between Heavens and Earth has its origin in the covenant of the rainbow between Yah and Noah. In that covenant Yah was heavens and Noah was earth, ie mankind. The marriage covenant between Noah and his wife Na'amah was the earthly representation/mirror of that covenant thereby Noah got a nickname of Heavens, Anu in the Sumerian and his wife got the nickname of Erets/Ki/Gaia, earth. Anunaki just means 'heavens and earth' and is a reference to their offspring.

Actually, Aunnaki means, "Those who from heaven to Earth came". It is also described as royal blood descending from the heavens and in certain contexts, the fallen angels or Nephilim.

In fact, the literal translation (Anunnaki being the gods), suggests they came to earth by space craft.

I just find it disturbing that you compare Noah to Anu. He is:

Lord of the Constellations, Spirits and Demons", and "Supreme Ruler of the Kingdom of Heaven"

He is also the ruler of Nibiru. You are saying Noah is an extraterrestrial.

In the Hebrew in Eden before Eve was named Eve, she was Adamah, the feminine form of Adam. Adam means 'soil/dirt'. When you put the feminine ending on a Hebrew noun it expands the meaning to a broader meaning. In this case Adamah means 'the land'. This is were a female progenitor is associated with the land.

You are clearly marrying the Sumerian creation story with the Hebrew one. In the Sumerian one, it is Adamu and Tiamat who lived in EDIN.



https://books.google.co.za/books?id=s1J ... mu&f=false

After the flood, Na'amah was the new female progenitor. She was the 'new Eve'. She wasn't called Adamah but Eretz, ie earth another term meaning the same thing but even broader in expanse. This is where the concept of 'mother earth' comes from. The Canaanite 'mother earth' was Asherah.

I thought you said Israelites were not influenced by the Canaanites but look at the similarities you have here!

If you read the book 'Yahweh and His Asherah', you will note that scholars argue about the source of her common epithet of 'She who treads upon the sea' while being an earth deity. They have no idea of the source of that epithet but if you know she is Noah's wife, it makes perfect sense. She rode out the flood on Noah's ark.

Asherah is Noah's wife? What? She is Yahweh's wife!

3) The earth was divided in the days of Peleg. It was divided up among the descendants of Noah. In Hebrew 'ben' is often translated as 'son of' but that is not always correct. It means 'descent of' and is also used for grandsons, great-grandsons ... It is common knowledge that scripture recognized 70 nations from the genealogies in Genesis divided among the offspring of Noah during his life. There were 70 bulls sacrificed on the day of atonement for the 70 nations of man while the Israelites were the priesthood for all mankind.

So if the Canaanites equate El and Asherah on the top and their 70 'sons', ie 'male descendants' as the next tier, how does that not directly relate to Noah and his wife Na'amah and the 70 nations that came from them? That certainly identifies that reference to El as Noah! Remember Canaan grew up in Noah's household! Canaan was one of those 70 individuals and apart of the dividing of the earth among those 70 individuals. That authority is earthly authority, not heavenly authority. It was common to equate men of earthly authority as 'gods', ie men of authority.

Canaan was one of those grandsons and the father of a nation, the Canaanites. Eber/Heber was also one of those nations, the Hebrews. But lets not forget that Noah cursed Canaan for the incident of 'uncovering his nakedness'. Ham found Noah but it was his 'youngest son/grandson' that is referenced and Canaan is cursed for the event.



Gen 9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their fathers nakedness.
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

You are falsely assuming that all that you are writing about are references to Noah. You are saying he is a god as I proved with the Annunaki comment. It's clear that Noah was a Canaanite yet he curses his son/grandson for uncovering his nakedness? That is his fault. He was motherless.

The 'younger son' referenced above is 'grandson Canaan', not Ham! Canaan is the target of Noah's offense. 'Uncovering nakedness' is a term in Hebrew for any sexual shaming event. For example, having sex with a brother's wife was 'uncovering his nakedness'. It doesn't mean Noah was found naked but something shameful had been done to him.

But it says that Ham was the father of Canaan. How can you divorce the two? Doesn't "father of Canaan" mean the ruler of Canaan? The leader of a land? That is why Noah would curse it because it belongs to Ham.

Noah had a DIRECT command from Yah to have more children and fill the earth with his offspring. How many more children did Noah have directly after the flood? NONE according to the genealogies even with a direct command to do so. Why is that? The Rabbinical tradition is that Noah was castrated. It is also the source of the Greek myth of the castration of Uranus which resulted in the creation/birth of Aphrodite. There is a bit of truth to that myth. The castration event did bring about the birth of Aphrodite but not as full grown from the sea. Artemis and Aphrodite were the same goddess. Artemis was her early life and Aphrodite her later life but split into two separate persons in Greek myths to be worshiped under different attributes but the Astarte/Ashtoreth and even the Roman Diana recognized she was the same individual in different stages of her life. The Greek myth had to come up with an origin story that provided a separate creation and associated her with the sea. In actuality, it was the castration of Noah that allowed Na'amah to take on another consort.



Even the triune goddess of witchcraft with her 3 faces of maiden, mother and crone, two of those faces, maiden and mother are for the two personas of Ashtoreth while the crone is the 'very old woman' is none other the Na'amah who was already over 600 years old at the time of the flood. She was by far the eldest woman alive and considered a titaness by the Greeks.

This is proof that that the Hebrew Bible is just copying pagan sources.

4) The OT is not influenced by the Ugaric texts. They have their root in the same events so obviously there is some major overlap. Yes, Moses wrote the Torah after the fact but that does not imply that he uses those Ugaric texts as his source but they have similar roots in actual events.

What proof do you have that Moses wrote the Torah? Who wrote the Torah after Moses' death? I'll give you proof of direct borrowing:

Psalm 18

"The waves of death swirled about me, and torrents of destruction overwhelmed me. The cords of Sheol coiled around me; the snares of death confronted me. In my distress I called to Yahweh; I called out to my Elohim. From his temple he heard my voice; my cry came to his ears. The earth trembled and quaked, the foundations of the heavens shook; they trembled because he was angry. Smoke rose from his nostrils; consuming fire came from his mouth, burning coals blazed out of it. He parted the heavens and came down; dark clouds were under his feet. He mounted the cherubim and flew; he soared on the wings of the wind. He made darkness his canopy around him the dark rain clouds of the sky. Out of the brightness of his presence bolts of lightning blazed forth. Yahweh thundered from heaven, the voice of the Most High resounded. He shot arrows and scattered the enemies, bolts of lightning and routed them. The valleys of the sea were exposed and the foundations of the earth laid bare at the rebuke of Yahweh, at the blast of breath from his nostrils. He reached down from on high and took hold of me... He rescued me from my powerful enemy..."

Ps 29, also attributed to David:

"The voice of Yahweh is over the waters; the El of glory thunders, Yahweh thunders over the mighty waters." His voice is "powerful" and "majestic;" his voice is lightning, it "breaks to pieces the cedars of Lebanon." "The voice of Yahweh strikes with flashes of lightning" and "shakes the desert," "twists the oaks, and strips the forests bare... Yahweh sits enthroned over the flood."


Now in the Canaanite text we have:

Then Baal opened a slit in the clouds,
Baal sounded his holy voice,
Baal thundered from his lips. . .
the earths high places shook.
Baals enemies fled to the woods,
Hadads haters took to the mountains.
And Baal the Conqueror said:
Hadads enemies, why are you quaking?
why are you quaking, assailers of the Valiant One?
Baals eye guided his hand,
as he swung a cedar in his right hand.
So Baal was enthroned in his house.
No other king or non-king
shall set his power over the earth.
I will send no tribute to Ers son Death,
no homage to Els Darling, the Hero.
Let Death cry to himself,
let the Darling grumble in his heart;
for I alone will rule over the gods;
I alone will fatten gods and men;
I alone will satisfy earths masses. 3

https://religionthink.wordpress.com/200 ... eh-praise/

So what if the Canaanites equate El and Asherah as 'gods' with their 70 sons being the next level of godly authority. The truth of the actual events is often biased by the society as time goes on. The pagan myths are a mixture of historic events and embellishments and outright lies to hide the actual truth. The entire point was to justify their rebellion against Noah as the ultimate authority and that didn't take long.

How about the other way around? To hide the truth about El, the Canaanite god, and his 70 sons with a Noah story. It is clear that you are comparing Noah to an actually god and I don't know where Yahweh fits into this. You'd think that Yahweh was the ultimate authority.

EL isn't a name but a descriptive title of a mighty individual.
Molech isn't a name but a title meaning 'shameful king'. Also like Melqart, 'king of the city' of Tire. Or Milcam ...
Ashtoreth isn't a name but a title meaning 'shameful star, ie Venus'.
Baal isn't a name but a title meaning 'lord' and MANY individuals held a title of 'lord of this or that'. Usually is was Lord of an attribute like Baalgad, 'lord of fortune'.
Baalim is a reference to the ENTIRE pantheon of" Baal"s/"Baalah"s (Baaloth).

El is also a name. Molech, Baal and Ashtoreth are acknowledged as gods. So what if they are also used as titles?

When Baal is used by itself, it is often a reference to Nimrod as ruler from Babel. The spirit of Nimrod, Baal, is referenced as 'the anti-christ spirit' in the NT. He is 'prince of the powers of the air', the realm of the 2nd heaven.

There are also many baals.

5) Yah didn't inherit from Noah, He took the priestly line as His, separate from the 70 national ELs. He was the direct authority over His priesthood instead of Eber/Heber the father of the Hebrews. The Israelites were a separation from among the broader family of Hebrews that carried the priestly line of Yah as a separate nation under His direct authority as 'their God' ,'their El' with a more specific covenant with them as His representatives among all the 70 nations of the earth. They were the priesthood for all nations and why they offered sacrifices for all 70 nations. Yah TOOK His priesthood from among the 'sons of Noah' as a separate nation.

No, it says that Yahweh received an inheritance.

So why on earth would we concerned with the Ugaric priestly knowledge when they were not even qualified as part of the priesthood. Canaan was even cursed by Noah. Their priesthood was corrupted and deeply involved with ancestor worship, sexual worship and witchcraft. This can be seen easily in Job. Job's so-called friends were pagans that followed other gods. Eliphaz was a sun-god worshiper for example and claimed his god traverses the sky but can't see through dark clouds. Eliphaz was Hebrew by his father but had a Canaanite mother. One of those friends tells Job to get an ancestral spirit guide.


Job 8:8 For enquire, I pray thee, of the former age, and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers:
9 (For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow:)
10 Shall not they teach thee, and tell thee, and utter words out of their heart?

Later Job asked him, 'what spirit is speaking through you?'.

That is an example of the Canaanite ancestor worship to summon ancestral spirit guides from the 'former age' who are ancient compared to living old men.

As I have said in a previous comment, the Israelites adopted the Canaanite practices including witchcraft and sexual worship. God, in the Bible, was agree that the Israelites worshiped pagan gods. They made a golden calf, remember?

Of course he must have because Nimrod was was the great-great grandfather of Noah.

I have NO IDEA where you got this? Nimrod was the son of Cush, son of Ham, son of Noah. Did you mean 'great-grandson' of Noah? Nimrod was a 'mighty man'. That term is also used for the offspring of the pre-flood Watchers. They begot giants and 'mighty men'. Nimrod didn't get that status from his male lineage but via his mother's lineage.

Yes! Great grandson, I meant. Don't you think it is disturbing that we got the Nephillim from Noah's bloodline? I thought the whole purpose of Yahweh wiping out mankind was to purge the world of evil.

Ashtoreth got the title of 'queen of heaven/sky' as being queen mother at Babel ruling from the top of the tower. She was Nimrod's mother and worshiped as a goddess. He was the original divine child of the divine mother, the anti-christ in opposition to the authority of Yah who was elevated to a god, ie Baal after his death. He is also referenced as Tammuz, Orion and Amraphel in scripture.

Baal was both son of and consort of Ashtoreth, his own mother. The entire point was to keep the nephilim bloodline as pure as possible without diluting that nephilim bloodline. Ashtoreth was 1/2 angelic by birth. Asherah her mother was fully human but the female progenitor of all mankind. Molech and Ashtoreth were twins, both 1/2 nephilim making Nimrod 1/4 of angelic descent since his father Cush was human.

You see, this is why the claim Baal and Yahweh are interchangeable. Look at the psalms example I gave. Yahweh was also Ashtoreth's husband.

Molech was the Canaanite sun-god, Apollo of the Greeks while Ashtoreth was both Artemis, his twin and Aphrodite, the great whore of Babel. She is both moon goddess via her persona of Artemis and goddess of the sea via her persona of Aphrodite. The moon has influence over the sea, ie tides.

Yam is just the Canaanite reference to Poseidon while Mot is the Canaanite Hades.

Of course there is a lot of confusion even in the later Canaanite religion. There were so many different individuals involved. You have Noah and his wife as human progenitors. You have the four angels that interacted with mankind. Those angels had realm over the air, the sea and the earth. Then the shameful king at Babel sets his throne above the 'stars of Yah' who himself is a son of 'the Morning' a Canaanite title of a 'son of El' (in this case EL is a reference to Yah). It is the 'Morning Stars' that sing at the laying of the foundation of the earth and lead the 'ben Elohyim' (the actual angels of Yah) in song. The 'shameful king' of Babel, the Canaanite Molech is who is called Lucifer in the Latin, the uncle of Nimrod. The four angels are displaced and imprisoned at the casting down of the tower. The realm of air (2nd heaven) is taken by Baal. The sea is taken by Ashtoreth. Hell is taken by Molech while earth is the realm of their esteemed mother Asherah. She rules over spirits of purely human descent.



Then of course you have the other children of the four angles like Anath, ie Athena who were also among the Baalim. You even have another mighty man that was one of the later judges of Israel who was a son of Anath.

Jud 3:31 And after him was Shamgar the son of Anath, which slew of the Philistines six hundred men with an ox goad: and he also delivered Israel.

Anath was in conflict against many of the others but is later displaced and confused with Ashtoreth in the Ugaric writings. Anath was the virgin goddess of virtue that refused to have children. She later castrated her own son to keep him from having offspring. That son was conceived via rape against her will. That son was a later judge of Israel.

There are few references to Anath in scripture. Most are in place names like Anathoth and Bethanath. Another reference is via her Egyptian name Neith. Joseph married Aceneth (worshiper of Neith).

Yah is just one of the many morning star gods. He is pagan Canaanite god, just admit it.

[Yahu]

Once you see that purpose was to free Israel from Egypt and focus HaSatan's attack on Job it just goes to show that HaSatan was used as a tool. Job's suffering helped bring about the Exodus then Job is rewarded.

I find it delightful how extravagant theories can be expressed in terms approximating certainty. I wonder if Egyptologists would endorse views about the captivity of Israel.

The views of secular Egpytologists is irrelevant in the TD&D subforum. Genesis and Exodus is plenty of evidence of the truth of it. Comments that show doubt of the authority of scripture isn't appropriate for this subforum.