Why didn't a god create perfection?

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Donray
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Why didn't a god create perfection?

Post #1

Post by Donray »

Why didn't a god create perfection?

One of the arguments for a god creator is that the universe is perfect. A matter of fact, everything a perfect god creates should be perfect.

the problem is that the universe is not perfect, Earth is not perfect, animals are not perfect, etc.

For example: what is purpose of black holes, why create galaxies that collide with each other, why is our galaxy on a collision course with another galaxy? Why create an Earth with plates that move and cause earthquakes and massive destruction? Why create virus? What is the purpose of the asteroid belt that cause destruction on Earth? Why cerate a brain what goes haywire?

There is not very much perfection why if a perfect god created it?

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Re: Why didn't a god create perfection?

Post #71

Post by Peds nurse »

[Replying to post 68 by Blastcat]

Hey BC!!

We do have a tendency to abuse nature. We don't have direct control over the weather, or unfortunately where birds do their business. I suppose, I was on the "free will" bandwagon. I should get off...and maybe you could wear a hat!

Wishing you well!

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Re: Why didn't a god create perfection?

Post #72

Post by Peds nurse »

[Replying to post 69 by benchwarmer]
Benchwarmer wrote:Is the baby fighting for it's life in NICU a 'flawless table'? I could see how the 'spirit' or 'soul' of that baby is perfectly made if I believed, but it can be plainly seen that the body is not. Surely the baby is using its body as intended and no one has 'taken a hammer to it'.
As a newborn sleeps in the next room, I ponder your words. I suppose, I was referring to the countless things that we do have control over, that we indeed, take a hammer to. What I have seen in my countless years of being a nurse, and caring for those NICU babies is this, perfection is in the eye of the beholder. If I was to tell a mom that her little baby, born with no kidneys, is less than perfect, I would expect to get hit! She thinks He is absolutely perfect. She would not change a thing. Perfection isn't science, perfection is love. One's person's flaws, is another's blessing...

Perhaps, that is a twist of this thread, but I don't ever think we will find perfection in science.

Do have a beautiful evening!

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Re: Why didn't a god create perfection?

Post #73

Post by Willum »

Peds nurse wrote:
marco wrote:
JLB32168 wrote:
Donray wrote:Why didn't a god create perfection?
A created thing had to be brought into existence by something outside itself; therefore, a created thing by virtue of being created cannot be perfect.
Marco wrote:To an extent this is true, JLB. But we judge the carpenter or the tailor by the goods they make. If the carpenter makes a table that collapses, he has done a bad job. It is therefore problematic that a perfect carpenter produces some articles that are hopelessly bad.
Hello Mr. Marco!! I hope this finds you well and smiling!

So, what if the carpenter makes excellent, flawless tables, but the people that use them, take a hammer to them and break it in pieces? Is it the fault of the carpenter that the table wasn't used as intended?
1. Prove it was a perfect table.
2. If the creator of the table did not foresee the table being hammered, either the table or the creator wasn't perfect.
Many a table is meant for hammering.

You really can't blame people for a God's mistakes. It is one thing to blame a carpenter for not foreseeing all possible uses and mis-uses of his product.
But an all-knowing god has no excuse.
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.

You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.

To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight

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Re: Why didn't a god create perfection?

Post #74

Post by benchwarmer »

Peds nurse wrote: [Replying to post 69 by benchwarmer]
Benchwarmer wrote:Is the baby fighting for it's life in NICU a 'flawless table'? I could see how the 'spirit' or 'soul' of that baby is perfectly made if I believed, but it can be plainly seen that the body is not. Surely the baby is using its body as intended and no one has 'taken a hammer to it'.
As a newborn sleeps in the next room, I ponder your words. I suppose, I was referring to the countless things that we do have control over, that we indeed, take a hammer to.
Fair enough, but I understood the debate to be about what God produced, not how we treat the produced product.
Peds nurse wrote: What I have seen in my countless years of being a nurse, and caring for those NICU babies is this, perfection is in the eye of the beholder. If I was to tell a mom that her little baby, born with no kidneys, is less than perfect, I would expect to get hit! She thinks He is absolutely perfect. She would not change a thing. Perfection isn't science, perfection is love. One's person's flaws, is another's blessing...
Well, I would hope the mother would wish her beautiful baby had kidneys instead. I think I understand what you are saying, but I think you might be talking more about the person of the baby rather than the body of the baby. What parent doesn't want their child to be absolutely healthy?
Peds nurse wrote: Perhaps, that is a twist of this thread, but I don't ever think we will find perfection in science.
I believe you are correct, science is only a useful tool for discovering our observable reality. Things like love and happiness are hard to pin down with science especially when it comes to figuring out how to attain them.
Peds nurse wrote: Do have a beautiful evening!
And you as well. Keep up the great work of looking after those precious children. You're one of the real heroes!

JLB32168

Post #75

Post by JLB32168 »

Blastcat wrote:Is it an opinion or a claim?
It is a fact that this is the theology of the Christian Church.
Blastcat wrote:That statement seems to mean that creation had needs before it was created.
Ttruscott understood quite clearly what I meant. My supposed lack of clarity isn’t the problem.
Blastcat wrote:I don't think that anything other than existing SENTIENT beings can NEED anything, actually.
Lava needs heat to remain molten. It lacks the ability to remain molten on its own.

Done.
Blastcat wrote:Yep, that's kinda what I'm thinking, too. A perfect being could have been perfect without the universe. The perfect being would have been perfectly fine without it. So, what happened all of a sudden?
I don’t know and don’t wish to speculate. The theology says that God suddenly created.
Blastcat wrote:This sounds to me like the chicken or the egg kinda problem.
Okay
Blastcat wrote:You seem to be saying that the "singularity" doesn't rely on the laws of physics for it's existence.
The laws of physics didn’t exist before the Big Bang.
Blastcat wrote:Why oh why did "God" bother creating anything if it was so darn perfect?
I don’t know and it doesn’t interest me enough to speculate.
Blastcat wrote:Define the word "need". I'm not sure what you mean by it.
Ask Ttruscott. He understood. Perhaps he can explain it better.
Blastcat wrote:You say that "God" possessed everything before it created the universe.
No – I said that the singularity possessed everything that would be.
Blastcat wrote:What caused a perfectly alone and perfectly fine "God" to suddenly... create?
This is the same question as your first one.
Blastcat wrote:You also stated that: "The laws of physics, however, (and every subsequent law in science) needed the singularity to exist before they ever came into being." Are you quite sure that the origins of the universe has been settled by the scientific community?
It doesn’t interest me enough to discuss. Reject it if you’d like.
Blastcat wrote:Are you trying to explain yourself to TS or to me right now?
The topic is a perfect or imperfect creation and its deity. I’m done discussing TS’ ability to understand what I said.
Blastcat wrote:Are you at all implying that I am not being honest, sir? For the record, please.
The topic is a perfect or imperfect creation and its deity – not the honesty (or lack) of a poster.

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Re: Why didn't a god create perfection?

Post #76

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 71 by Peds nurse]

How is love in any way perfect?

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marco
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Re: Why didn't a god create perfection?

Post #77

Post by marco »

Peds nurse wrote:

Hello Mr. Marco!! I hope this finds you well and smiling!

So, what if the carpenter makes excellent, flawless tables, but the people that use them, take a hammer to them and break it in pieces? Is it the fault of the carpenter that the table wasn't used as intended?

I am far from well, nurse, but I am smiling.

Yes, if we destroy God's perfect creations we are at fault. That wasn't what I saying. The Earth that God made suffers faults that affect human life, and I cannot believe that humans "took a hammer" to the earth's core or caused tsunamis. It is all very well saying man brought sin and destruction but he didn't build tectonic plates.

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Re: Why didn't a god create perfection?

Post #78

Post by ttruscott »

Willum wrote: [Replying to post 71 by Peds nurse]

How is love in any way perfect?
When it is complete and at it's zenith.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: Why didn't a god create perfection?

Post #79

Post by Willum »

ttruscott wrote:
Willum wrote: [Replying to post 71 by Peds nurse]

How is love in any way perfect?
When it is complete and at it's zenith.
That says absolutely nothing.
Especially if you are referring to Yahweh's alleged love.

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Re: Why didn't a god create perfection?

Post #80

Post by ttruscott »

marco wrote: It is all very well saying man brought sin and destruction but he didn't build tectonic plates.
No but the earth was created in accord with the evil free will decisions of the sinful people who must live here, to be a stage for their evil lives that speaks to or graphically points out we do not get a peaceful world because we did not deserve a perfectly benign world but as sinners we get a world of suffering and death!
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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