Evangelicals vs. Jehovah's Witnesses

[Elijah John]

Evangelicals often call Jehovah's Witnesses, a "cult" and not Christian.

Jehovah's Witnesses, seem to consider Roman Catholics, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox etc, "not-Christian" (JWs please correct me if I'm wrong on this)

Question for debate, why can't all of these groups rightly be considered "Christian"?

And part two of this OP question is directed primarily to Evangelicals, why don't you consider JWs to be Christian?

[marakorpa]

[Replying to post 307 by hoghead1]

said Timothy Smith, a professor of theology at Johns Hopkins University and a Wesleyan evangelical.

Talk about no brains Hoghead must be frothing at the mouth by now. Take your pills, mate, and go to bed.

[marakorpa]

Talking about being a Christian, true Christians know what the main theme of the Bible is right from the moment of disobedience of Adam and Eve and the charge that Jehovah put on Satan.

This is the charge:

taken from JW.org

When Adam and Eve sinned, it may have appeared that Jehovah’s purpose to have an earthly paradise inhabited by perfect humans had been thwarted. But God immediately addressed the problem. He said: “I shall put enmity between you [the serpent] and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.�—Genesis 3:15.

These were puzzling, cryptic words. Who was this woman? Who was the serpent? Who was the “seed� that would bruise the serpent’s head? Adam and Eve could only guess. Still, God’s words provided hope for any faithful offspring of that unfaithful pair. Righteousness would triumph. Jehovah’s purpose would be realized. But how? Ah, that was a mystery! The Bible calls it “God’s wisdom in a sacred secret, the hidden wisdom.�—1 Corinthians 2:7.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 309 by marakorpa]

Frothing? Are you kidding? I got just what I expected.

[For_The_Kingdom]

Thanks for the clarification, I agree that Jehovah's Witnesses are Christians...so let me redirect the OP now primarily to Evangelicals. (all are welcome to opine as well)

How can you say that Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christians? What, in your minds, defines a "Christian"?

Biblically speaking, a Christian is a person that recognizes/accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and believe that he died on the cross for the sins of mankind.

Jehovah's Witnesses claim that they are Christians, but their theology is based primarily on allegiance to the organzation as opposed to allegiance to Christ. For example, they don't believe that you can have Jesus Christ in your life if you are NOT part of the Watch Tower & Tract Society.

If I have to be part of a man-made organization to accept Christ, then that contradicts what Jesus said when he said that he is"THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE, NO MAN CAN COME TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME" (John 14:6).

But Jehovah's Witnesses believe that in order to gain salvation, you have to be part of their organization (Watch Tower).

That is the reason why people may not consider JW's Christian.

[2timothy316]

But Jehovah's Witnesses believe that in order to gain salvation, you have to be part of their organization (Watch Tower).

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/who-saved/

From the JW's official website.

Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Feel That They Are the Only People Who Will Be Saved?

No. Many millions who lived in centuries past and who weren’t Jehovah’s Witnesses will have an opportunity for salvation. The Bible explains that in God’s promised new world, “"there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous."� (Acts 24:15) Additionally, many now living may yet begin to serve God, and they too will gain salvation. In any case, it’s not our job to judge who will or won’t be saved. That assignment rests squarely in Jesus’ hands.—John 5:22, 27.

I'm guessing you have not done much research on what Witnesses believe. Now that you've been shown the correct doctrine on what JWs believe, maybe you'd like to retract your quoted statement?

[For_The_Kingdom]

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/who-saved/

From the JW's official website.

You are taking what I said out of context with a link. The question is simple; can I receive eternal life through the blood of Christ DESPITE the fact that I am NOT a Jehovah's Witness.

That is the question. According to the Bible, the answer is YES...according to Jehovah's Witnesses, NO. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that they are and they HAVE the truth and that all other religions, demoninations, etc, are LOST and don't truly have God.

I'm guessing you have not done much research on what Witnesses believe. Now that you've been shown the correct doctrine on what JWs believe, maybe you'd like to retract your quoted statement?

I will retract it depending on how you answer the following question....according to the Watch Tower & Tract Society...can any person ALIVE TODAY not be involved or affiliated whatsoever with the "organization", and still be covered by the blood of Christ and therefore saved?

It is a simple yes or no.

[2timothy316]

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/who-saved/

From the JW's official website.

You are taking what I said out of context with a link. The question is simple; can I receive eternal life through the blood of Christ DESPITE the fact that I am NOT a Jehovah's Witness.

That is the question. According to the Bible, the answer is YES...according to Jehovah's Witnesses, NO. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that they are and they HAVE the truth and that all other religions, demoninations, etc, are LOST and don't truly have God.

I'm guessing you have not done much research on what Witnesses believe. Now that you've been shown the correct doctrine on what JWs believe, maybe you'd like to retract your quoted statement?

I will retract it depending on how you answer the following question....according to the Watch Tower & Tract Society...can any person ALIVE TODAY not be involved or affiliated whatsoever with the "organization", and still be covered by the blood of Christ and therefore saved?

It is a simple yes or no.

Yes they can. Still Jesus makes those choices though. No one can proclaim themselves as 'saved' because it's not any human's choice. Not even you can proclaim yourself saved...if you do, then you are no different than what you are accusing the JWs of doing.

"In any case, it’s not our job to judge who will or won’t be saved. That assignment rests squarely in Jesus’ hands.—John 5:22, 27."

Perhaps you missed reading that part?

Will your retract your statement now?

[For_The_Kingdom]

Yes they can. Still Jesus makes those choices though. No one can proclaim themselves as 'saved' because it's not any human's choice. Not even you can proclaim yourself saved...if you do, then you are no different than what you are accusing the JWs of doing.

"In any case, it’s not our job to judge who will or won’t be saved. That assignment rests squarely in Jesus’ hands.—John 5:22, 27."

Perhaps you missed reading that part?

The question is not regarding who is actually saved or who isn't. The question is regarding the BIBLICAL criterion for salvation...and whether or not a person can not be an actual Jehovah's Witness and STILL met the criteria for salvation.

Will your retract your statement now?

No...because the link you provided based upon false information..

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/who-saved/

No. Many millions who lived in centuries past and who weren’t Jehovah’s Witnesses will have an opportunity for salvation.

Now just consider the above statement, directly from JW.ORG.

This is a false doctrine of "second chances", which is the unBiblical view that once you die and resurrect, you will be given a second chance to become a Jehovah's Witness and therefore be saved.

That is why it states "....and who WEREN'T Jehovah's Witnesses will have an opportunity for salvation", which implies, the second time around you'd better become a JEHOVAH'S WITNESS or you won't be saved.

Not only is this view unbiblical (no scriptural basis whatsoever), but it, as I said, implies that you have to become a Jehovah's Witness if you have any hopes for salvation.

The Bible explains that in God’s promised new world, “there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.� (Acts 24:15).

^Quote from website

And? What does that have to do with salvation? Nothing. Red herring..just something to throw in there as a "filler".

Additionally, many now living may yet begin to serve God, and they too will gain salvation.

^Quote from link

Right, but that isn't the QUESTION. The question is, what is the Biblical CRITERION for salvation. Is the criteria accepting Christ as Lord and Savior, or being affiliated with a man-made organization. Can I "serve God" DESPITE NOT being a member of the organization. That is the question.

You see, above, the subliminal message of you must be a JW to receive salvation was already embedded in the text and if you don't read closely, you might miss it.

That is all part of the Watch Tower deception.

In any case, it’s not our job to judge who will or won’t be saved. That assignment rests squarely in Jesus’ hands.—John 5:22, 27.

^Quote from link.

No one is saying it is your "job" to judge who will or who won't be saved...however, your "job" is to speak on accurately and truthfully on Biblical doctrines...and in this case, inform people of the Biblical criterion on salvation...and you can do that without saying who will/won't be saved.

[2timothy316]

You see, above, the subliminal message of you must be a JW to receive salvation was already embedded in the text and if you don't read closely, you might miss it.

No I don't see it. What is the first word in the answer to 'Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Feel That They Are the Only People Who Will Be Saved?' The first word is NO. It can't be clearer. You're seeing what you want to see. Me, a Witness telling that you're wrong isn't enough. A quote directly from our official website confirming what I said isn't enough. The Bible telling us that Jesus is everyone's judge isn't enough.

I can only conclude you're going to tell yourself what you want to hear and see what you want to see. I could have all 19 million Witnesses and Bible students confirm what I have already told you and I'm quite sure you would still see what you want to see. There's no point, your mind is stuck and seeing things that aren't there. It's like you're hallucinating. Do you know what people call a person that teaches others the exact opposite of what they have been told? It's not a nice title.

[2timothy316]

No one is saying it is your "job" to judge who will or who won't be saved...however, your "job" is to speak on accurately and truthfully on Biblical doctrines...and in this case, inform people of the Biblical criterion on salvation...and you can do that without saying who will/won't be saved.

Let me ask you then, will there be Jehovah's Witnesses that will be saved? Yes or no.