Paradise on Earth

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:25 am

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

rikuoamero · Post by **rikuoamero** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:53 am

[Replying to post 106 by onewithhim]

He allowed himself to be killed by people who did not love God.

I imagine that those Jews who called for his death would argue otherwise. They'd argue that they were upholding God's laws. Indeed, in reading the Bible, I found places where it argues that holding the letter of the law is what is 'good'.

rikuoamero · Post by **rikuoamero** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:56 am

[Replying to post 104 by onewithhim]

Humans will then enjoy the life that God originally purposed for them when he told Adam and Eve to multiply and fill the earth. Even death will be no more.

I'm not really looking for an answer for this but think about it - considering that something happened to muck up God's original purpose, who's to say nothing of the sort won't also happen to THIS plan, to ruin it?
I mean...if an all knowing perfect God can have his original Garden of Eden plan ruined by a simple talking snake...what assurance can be given that any of his other plans won't also be thwarted...unless the snake was part of this God's plan all along?

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:12 pm

rikuoamero wrote:I'm not really looking for an answer for this but think about it - considering that something happened to muck up God's original purpose, who's to say nothing of the sort won't also happen to THIS plan, to ruin it?

God's original purpose was simply delayed, we have His (Almighty God's) assurance that his purposes will always ultimately be realized. Nothing can stop what he wants finally coming to pass. This our planet earth will be a paradise. That Paradise will last forever.

Jehovah swears by his own name. That is the surest of Assurances (see Isaiah 55:11).

JW

Who are the 144,000 To rule over?
viewtopic.php?p=1055054#p1055054

Are we to understand the Kingdom to be a LITERAL government that will rule over this literal planet earth?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 30#p865630

What will those ruling in this government (The Kingdom) actually DO in the future?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 22#p878622

What is God's Kingdom and what will it do for mankind?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 02#p865402

Will life in the coming paradise EARTH be "boring"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 52#p862552

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:33 pm

rikuoamero wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:
onewithhim wrote: Will someone tell me why the following thoughts are not interesting and do not inspire joy and hope for the future?

They are interesting to those that love what is good and yearn for relief from suffering for themselves and others. Peace and security is what all people want and are working for believer or not, here on this forum however most people come to argue so whatever you write is likely to get a negative response, if you post the sky is blue someone is likely to object.

It's just the games people play...
Please do not suggest that those of us who do not find onewithhim's list of thoughts interesting/inspiring of joy & hope do not love what is good, or that those who are on this forum (hello, you're here too!) are somehow not working for peace and security.

I am interested to know why you don't find the idea of re-gaining Paradise inspiring.

.

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:46 pm

marco wrote:
onewithhim wrote:

Will someone tell me why the following thoughts are not interesting and do not inspire joy and hope for the future?
I am happy to oblige. Let's look at them

(I)
Do you remember that Adam, the first man, sinned? He lost life and Paradise, and all of us die, too, because we are his children. (Romans 5:12; 3:23)

This is not joyful because it speaks of loss and death and unjust punishment of all for one.

(2)
Jesus was God's Son. He was a perfect man. He did not sin. (Hebrews 5:9; 7:26)

He allowed himself to be killed by people who did not love God. (Acts 2:23) This was a sacrifice of himself for us. (I Timothy 2:6)

This is truly awful. He should have been more careful, but there you go; he put himself in harm's way. Is this joyful? The people who had him killed thought he was a blasphemer against the God they adored. Jesus failed to defend himself properly. Again, this is bad news.

(3)

God remembers everyone who has died

That's no big deal considering he instituted death.

(4)

After all the bad people are gone, nobody will die anymore. Even the wild animals will not be dangerous.

Why in this story are there wild animals? And who are these "bad people"? What standards is Jehovah going to use to determine who is bad?

There is nothing to be joyful about in all this unless one is persuaded one is special. Then again, the person who seated himself at the top table thought the same, till he was disabused of his presumption.

Thank you for replying.

I included the first three points to answer the question "why do we die?" and "how can we be saved from the sin and death brought on us by Adam's rebellion?" Those points in themselves are not bowls of cherries, but there is an answer to the puzzling questions most people ask.

Wild animals are mentioned because the Bible shows that humans were made to live forever on this planet, and animals have been a part of the environment since the beginning. After A&E rebelled, animals became afraid of humans and have been dangerous ever since. In the Paradise on Earth that God has ordained for us, the animals will no longer be dangerous, and we will not be killing them any more. (Isaiah 11:6-9)

The "bad people" are those like you see on the evening news. People who put babies in ovens; people who rape children; people who kill others for their money or for their mate; people who head up countries and don't do anything for their people who live in shanty towns while the big fat kings or presidents enjoy their gold-plated toilets. Is it that you don't consider these degenerates bad?

Jehovah is going to use the standards that he has outlined in his Bible to determine who is bad. It's all right there. And he can read hearts.

I don't think people are inspired by all this because they think they're special. I certainly don't, but I can't wait for Jesus' Millennial Reign with its resulting Paradise on Earth.

.

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:54 pm

rikuoamero wrote: [Replying to post 106 by onewithhim]

He allowed himself to be killed by people who did not love God.
I imagine that those Jews who called for his death would argue otherwise. They'd argue that they were upholding God's laws. Indeed, in reading the Bible, I found places where it argues that holding the letter of the law is what is 'good'.

Well, the Scriptures indicate that the Jewish leaders were not upholding God's Laws; Jesus brought this out repeatedly. (E.g., see Matthew 23) The Pharisees put man-made burdens on the people that were not in God's Law. Jesus told a metaphorical story about how negligent the religious leaders were when he told the illustration of the Rich Man & Lazarus (Luke chapter 16); that was the whole point of the story.

.

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:13 pm

rikuoamero wrote: [Replying to post 104 by onewithhim]

Humans will then enjoy the life that God originally purposed for them when he told Adam and Eve to multiply and fill the earth. Even death will be no more.
I'm not really looking for an answer for this but think about it - considering that something happened to muck up God's original purpose, who's to say nothing of the sort won't also happen to THIS plan, to ruin it?
I mean...if an all knowing perfect God can have his original Garden of Eden plan ruined by a simple talking snake...what assurance can be given that any of his other plans won't also be thwarted...unless the snake was part of this God's plan all along?

I don't really think my answer will be accepted by anybody, but I'll throw it out there anyway. Satan and Adam "mucked up" God's original purpose, but not permanently. Because of the fact of free will, Adam's disingenious choices were respected by God. How many times would Adam have to give Jehovah the finger to get Jehovah to back off? Adam wanted to call his own shots, independent of God. Jehovah honored Adam's decisions. That decision of Adam would, of course, involve any children he may have. And it did. He became imperfect and destined to die, and so his children would be affected by that. It's called genetics, and heredity.

Jehovah gave Adam and his world a certain amount of time to prove that he could rule himself. Surely all of creation wondered, "Can humans actually rule themselves better than Jehovah could?" See, Eve had actually thought that God was holding something good back from her. Would they find out that that was true, or a lie by Satan? There had to be time to prove the points set out by A&E and Satan. Satan said to Jehovah that humans would "curse You to Your very face!" (Job 1:10,11; 2:5) So we had two contentions there---that man could rule himself without their Creator, and that God was cruel to let bad things happen to people & was deserving of cursing. How would it turn out?

We are approaching the end of that period of time that humans were given to prove they could take care of the earth apart from God, and also the end of that period of time that Satan said within which people would surely curse Jehovah. When the time is up, which will be pretty soon, the questions will be answered, and Jehovah will never again allow the human race to undergo such a disaster. No one can ever say again that humans don't need their Maker to show them how to operate successfully.

No further thwarting will be allowed. And the awesome thing is.....what Adam originally messed up will be there for us to enjoy after all. Paradise was the original plan, and it is still Jehovah's plan. We can take up where Adam left off.

marco · Post by **marco** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:36 am

JehovahsWitness wrote:
God's original purpose was simply delayed, we have His (Almighty God's) assurance that his purposes will always ultimately be realized. Nothing can stop what he wants finally coming to pass. This our planet earth will be a paradise. That Paradise will last forever.

And I think this is a beautiful vision; the pictures appealing. But these pictures that represent a religious way of thought are no different from paintings of Mary or Christ on the cross, to which exception is taken. Both types are admired, not worshipped.

The essentially static nature of the image defies logic; for children grow, which is part of the happiness parcel. Inside the eternity of joy there is the labour of gathering fruit and the question of pointlessness. People live to live. Like the people on Keats's Grecian Urn, people will forever seek and strive and though tomorrow's sun comes, age will not accompany it and children will forever be immature captives in time.

Hmmmm.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:36 am

[Replying to post 118 by marco]

Thank you for your comment, I just want to clarify that I am in no way implying that I am in a position to dictate what others should believe, and understand that beliefs are not debatable since they are personal to each one but since this is Theology Doctrine and Dogma felt it appropriate to outline the Jehovah's Witness view of things.

marco wrote:And I think this is a beautiful vision; the pictures appealing.

I agree and fully acknowledge your point with due respect.

JW

Blastcat · Post by **Blastcat** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:01 pm

[Replying to post 113 by JehovahsWitness]

[center]Genesis flood:
A small delay in the plan.[/center]

JehovahsWitness wrote:
God's original purpose was simply delayed, we have His (Almighty God's) assurance that his purposes will always ultimately be realized. Nothing can stop what he wants finally coming to pass. This our planet earth will be a paradise. That Paradise will last forever.

Jehovah swears by his own name. That is the surest of Assurances (see Isaiah 55:11).

I wonder why God put in delays to his plans?
Why, for example, was the delay of the FLOOD needed?

Any ideas?