What is God responsible for?

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Willum
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What is God responsible for?

Post #1

Post by Willum »

Many things were done in God's name:
But what is he responsible for?

When the Catholic Nazi Germany attempts a genocide, a man is blamed.
When Hebrews commit genocide on the Canaan, it is his will.

We have plagues, on Catholic countries, for example. The Dark Ages were committed in Yahweh's name. Were they?

Why would Yahweh plunge the civilization of Rome, with health, farming and sanitation, back into the primitive squalor of ancient Jerusalem, if so?

If not, why did he not stop such a terror? It seems to be in His purview.

How does one determine if an act is done in God's will, or men's will?
Does the Bible tell us?

Understanding that free will is a constraint - we can also understand that mob's and large numbers of people lose free will, does this fall into God's purview, then?

In short, how does one know what God is responsible for;
Any group decision?
A decision influenced by prayer?

The position is that presented by Romans 13:
Obey the rulers who have authority over you. Only God can give authority to anyone, and he puts these rulers in their places of power. 2 People who oppose the authorities are opposing what God has done, and they will be punished. 3 Rulers are a threat to evil people, not to good people. There is no need to be afraid of the authorities. Just do right, and they will praise you for it. 4 After all, they are God’s servants, and it is their duty to help you.
The position of the OP is: those atrocities committed by governments, God's will, and he is responsible for them.

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Post #301

Post by 2timothy316 »

[Replying to post 300 by onewithhim]

I had to read it a few times too. Then I focused on the statement, "I have yet to see any real back up". Since almost all of my posts were scripture heavy and it was noted that the ideas were eloquent, apparently it wasn't enough. I'd also like to point out to all that the 'eloquent ideas' were written thousands of years ago and they are not mine. Or maybe Im wrong about what they meant...who knows?!
Last edited by 2timothy316 on Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Post #302

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 300 by onewithhim]
Oh. I read his post over and over and it seemed to me that he was criticizing you for not using the Bible to back up your statements. That's why I asked him, well what is post 273 about then. But I very well could be way off. Very Happy
I dunno, I'll check...

Hmmm...
Doesn't seem to have a lick to do with the OP. As per usual.
In fact it seems more like a dream or induced religious state than anything like what we're talking about.

I suppose you could make the same arguments about Alice in Wonderland, for all the application I see to this OP.

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marco
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Re: What is God responsible for?

Post #303

Post by marco »

onewithhim wrote:
I have said many times that we can tell what's what by studying the Bible!
Then many times you have made an error.
The Romans would say Quot homines, tot sententiae: there are as many opinions as there are people. So too with biblical opinion. We regularly disagree over the interpretation of a verse. I certainly believe my interpretation is best but I can see that others, yourself included, would want their opinions to be seen as worthwhile.
Be that as it may, we cannot say that we come away from reading the Bible with an interpretation that is indubitably correct.
onewithhim wrote:
And also, again, our original parents indicated to Jehovah that they wanted to do things THEIR way and not HIS way, so He has let them do so.....to prove one way or the other, that His rule is better than Satan's, or Satan's is better.
This is certainly one interpretation of the original sin. It takes the simple story of a woman disobeying some instruction, through curiosity, and it asserts that she made the intelligent and rash decision to turn from God. This would not stand up in a court of law. Another issue would be one of responsibility for allowing the serpent access to a supposed divine garden. God must take some of the blame associated with Eve's folly. But of course since the whole scenario is better interpreted as figurative, it is unwise to draw conclusions about the figurative motivations of the figurative couple in the figurative garden.

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Post #304

Post by dio9 »

2timothy316 wrote:
dio9 wrote: [Replying to post 274 by 2timothy316]

Talking about God and Man together. True Christians are already walking in the way of the Lord.
I am unconvinced that all that call themselves 'true Christians' are really what they call themselves. Members of the Westboro Baptist Church call themselves true Christians, yet by their acts, I have a hard time believing them.

So who really are letting God direct them in the way they should walk and does one identify a person that is 'walking in the way they should walk'?
only each person can know if they are walking the walk.

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Post #305

Post by 2timothy316 »

dio9 wrote:
2timothy316 wrote:
dio9 wrote: [Replying to post 274 by 2timothy316]

Talking about God and Man together. True Christians are already walking in the way of the Lord.
I am unconvinced that all that call themselves 'true Christians' are really what they call themselves. Members of the Westboro Baptist Church call themselves true Christians, yet by their acts, I have a hard time believing them.

So who really are letting God direct them in the way they should walk and does one identify a person that is 'walking in the way they should walk'?
only each person can know if they are walking the walk.
Agreed. There are only two gates to walk through.

“Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.� (Matthew 7:13, 14)

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Re: What is God responsible for?

Post #306

Post by postroad »

[Replying to post 291 by 2timothy316]
There was absolutely nothing Josiah could have done to avoid his fate or keep God from executing judgement on the Jewish nation. Or did you forget what happened to the people under Necho? God had pronounced judgement on the people on account of the sinfulness of prievious generations and kings.
2 Kings 22:15-20New International Version (NIV)

15 She said to them, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: Tell the man who sent you to me, 16 ‘This is what the Lord says: I am going to bring disaster on this place and its people, according to everything written in the book the king of Judah has read. 17 Because they have forsaken me and burned incense to other gods and aroused my anger by all the idols their hands have made,[a] my anger will burn against this place and will not be quenched.’ 18 Tell the king of Judah, who sent you to inquire of the Lord, ‘This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says concerning the words you heard: 19 Because your heart was responsive and you humbled yourself before the Lord when you heard what I have spoken against this place and its people—that they would become a curse and be laid waste—and because you tore your robes and wept in my presence, I also have heard you, declares the Lord. 20 Therefore I will gather you to your ancestors, and you will be buried in peace. Your eyes will not see all the disaster I am going to bring on this place.’�

So they took her answer back to the king.
Josiah could not have done anything to avert disaster. He because of his righteous would die in peace and not be a witness to the disaster. Although being killed is not my idea of a peaceful death. But it did keep him from seeing the rest of the disaster.

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Post #307

Post by onewithhim »

Willum wrote: [Replying to post 300 by onewithhim]
Oh. I read his post over and over and it seemed to me that he was criticizing you for not using the Bible to back up your statements. That's why I asked him, well what is post 273 about then. But I very well could be way off. Very Happy
I dunno, I'll check...

Hmmm...
Doesn't seem to have a lick to do with the OP. As per usual.
In fact it seems more like a dream or induced religious state than anything like what we're talking about.

I suppose you could make the same arguments about Alice in Wonderland, for all the application I see to this OP.
I'm sorry.....my brain isn't as sharp as it used to be.


.

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Post #308

Post by ttruscott »

dio9 wrote: [Replying to Blastcat]

Its all about spiritual life. According to Genesis Adam and Eve died when they ate.
What words do you get this idea form? They didn't die until their body died.
They died but continued to live and have children, what kind of death did they suffer? What kind of life was restored by Jesus?
I suggest that as under the sentence of death they could be referred to as dead, like the dead man walking phrase.
PCE Theology as I see it...

We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.

This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.

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Re: What is God responsible for?

Post #309

Post by Monta »

[Replying to post 291 by 2timothy316]


"Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength." Deut 6:4, Mark 12:30 "

I am just wondering what translation you are using.
I Googled Deut 6:4 and everyone gives 'the Lord our God is one Lord'.

If we see the Scripture as God-inspired we must respect the words as they are used.

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Re: What is God responsible for?

Post #310

Post by marco »

Monta wrote:

I am just wondering what translation you are using.
I Googled Deut 6:4 and everyone gives 'the Lord our God is one Lord'.

If we see the Scripture as God-inspired we must respect the words as they are used.
To be fair, Monta, you are using an interpretation through translation as well but I grant that a modern translation seems to carry messages beyond the meaning of the original in order to justify a preferred viewpoint. It can be argued that such a translation, carrying the translator's convictions, is not Biblical.
Last edited by marco on Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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