"Atheists believe there is no God"

[Talishi]

Many Christians like to say, "Atheists believe there is no God." But atheism is not a belief there is no God because to have a belief is to hold a proposition. There are thousands of other things that Christians, like atheists, do not have a belief in, from Sasquatch to elves. If the mechanism is correct that the non-existence of God is a proposition held by atheists, then both Christians and atheists must also have matching propositions for the non-existence of all other imaginary things, which clearly we do not, since we can only name a few.

So for the record:

Christians believe in the existence of Yahweh and they do not believe in the existence of Zeus.

Atheists do not believe in the existence of Yahweh and they also do not believe in the existence of Zeus.

Perhaps the underlying motivation for some Christians to say atheists believe there is no God is a suspicion they have that believing in something is inferior to understanding something. And perhaps it is enabled by the same sloppy reasoning that results in some Christians saying evolution is “only a theory� as if that were a bad thing.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 159 by Bust Nak]

Most atheists don't believe in the supernatural, but some do, it's not a requirement. There is also lots of wiggle room in what is and isn't supernatural. Those atheists who believe in ghosts or new age crystals could tell you ghosts are perfectly natural or crystal power is a developing branch of science.

That's right, Bust Nak:

Just to be clear, if you don't believe in a god of any kind, you are an atheist.

Ghosts or whatever else you might believe in is not THEISM, theism is a belief in a THEOS, AKA "God" ( and/or Goddess )

[stevevw]

[Replying to Bust Nak]
If an atheist believes in ghosts then what's the difference with say believing in the Holy spirit which is like the ghost of Christ. Plus it seems then that atheists are being discriminatory against gods. If they believe in one form of supernatural being as opposed to another then the only difference I can see is that it is because it is a god or a divine agent as opposed to any ghost which doesn't have a deity attached to it.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to Bust Nak]
If an atheist believes in ghosts then what's the difference with say believing in the Holy spirit which is like the ghost of Christ. Plus it seems then that atheists are being discriminatory against gods. If they believe in one form of supernatural being as opposed to another then the only difference I can see is that it is because it is a god or a divine agent as opposed to any ghost which doesn't have a deity attached to it.

'Atheism' is a lack of acceptance of theistic claims. It is to be without theism.

Ghosts can be true or false, regardless of whether god claims are accepted. Sure, it might be a bit atypical for an atheist to reject god claims but accept ghost claims, but such a stance is possible.

I don't personally know of any atheists that believe in ghosts.

[William]

I don't personally know of any atheists that believe in ghosts.

Yet they believe in consciousness. Perhaps consciousness is The Ghost in The Machine as it were?

Just a different way of describing the same thing.

Consciousness incarnate within form or without form...

GOD either way, and in every way.

[stevevw]

[Replying to Bust Nak]
If an atheist believes in ghosts then what's the difference with say believing in the Holy spirit which is like the ghost of Christ. Plus it seems then that atheists are being discriminatory against gods. If they believe in one form of supernatural being as opposed to another then the only difference I can see is that it is because it is a god or a divine agent as opposed to any ghost which doesn't have a deity attached to it.

'Atheism' is a lack of acceptance of theistic claims. It is to be without theism.

Ghosts can be true or false, regardless of whether god claims are accepted. Sure, it might be a bit atypical for an atheist to reject god claims but accept ghost claims, but such a stance is possible.

I don't personally know of any atheists that believe in ghosts.

So would that mean that the only reason that an atheist who believes in Ghosts doesn't believe in god is because its god. I always thought of atheism as not believing in anything supernatural. Well, at least the people I have known or seen are like that. They are also more inclined to support evolution, materialism and scientism.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 161 by stevevw]




[center]
Atheism is about only ONE kind of non belief... a non belief in gods or goddesses
That's it.[/center]

If an atheist believes in ghosts then what's the difference with say believing in the Holy spirit which is like the ghost of Christ. Plus it seems then that atheists are being discriminatory against gods. If they believe in one form of supernatural being as opposed to another then the only difference I can see is that it is because it is a god or a divine agent as opposed to any ghost which doesn't have a deity attached to it.

Atheism only means that someone doesn't believe in gods or goddesses. They can believe anything else.

Atheism is about just one thing.. belief in gods or goddesses. That's it.
People get so confused, but the concept is extremely simple and modest.

Belief in gods or goddesses = Theism.
No believe in gods or goddesses = Atheism.

That's all this is.


There is no "discrimination" going on against ghosts or whatever...
If you are an atheist, you can go ahead and believe in ghosts all you like... that doesn't affect atheism, but it might indicate that you are superstitious and not a very good skeptic.

[William]

[quote="Blastcat"]

[center]
Atheism is about only ONE kind of non belief... a non belief in gods or goddesses
That's it.[/center]


If that were the case, then there would be nothing to argue about.

Q: Do you have any belief in the existence of any gods whatsoever?

A: No. I am an atheist.

Okay then. Nothing to debate here folks...move along...

Atheist: Hang on a minute! I have other things to argue!

Q: Do you wish to argue them from the platform of atheism?

A: Yes of course! I am an atheist!

Q: So are you saying atheism is different from 'being an atheist' because being an atheist is MORE than what atheism is, which of itself merely is about lacking belief in all ideas of GOD?

A: Yes. (?)

Then you are no longer arguing from the position of atheism, but from a position of whatever TYPE of atheist you are as a subset of that platform.

[Clownboat]

If that were the case, then there would be nothing to argue about.

Q: Do you have any belief in the existence of any gods whatsoever?

A: No. I am an atheist.

Okay then. Nothing to debate here folks...move along...

You are wrong, and demonstrably so.
An atheist could witness a religious person trying to impose their specific religious beliefs on others via force or via law. That in itself supplies a reason to debate.

Some atheist view religious beliefs as harmful or at least a hindrance. Therefore debating to see if such views are true or not is beneficial.

Atheist: Hang on a minute! I have other things to argue!

Q: Do you wish to argue them from the platform of atheism?

A: Yes of course! I am an atheist!

Q: So are you saying atheism is different from 'being an atheist' because being an atheist is MORE than what atheism is, which of itself merely is about lacking belief in all ideas of GOD?

A: Yes. (?)

Then you are no longer arguing from the position of atheism, but from a position of whatever TYPE of atheist you are as a subset of that platform.

What types of atheists are you proposing? I would like to examine this claim of yours to see if it reflects the reality that I observe.

[William]

If that were the case, then there would be nothing to argue about.

Q: Do you have any belief in the existence of any gods whatsoever?

A: No. I am an atheist.

Okay then. Nothing to debate here folks...move along...

You are wrong, and demonstrably so.
An atheist could witness a religious person trying to impose their specific religious beliefs on others via force or via law. That in itself supplies a reason to debate.

Some atheist view religious beliefs as harmful or at least a hindrance. Therefore debating to see if such views are true or not is beneficial.

In that context you would be correct. That is another context though.

Atheist: Hang on a minute! I have other things to argue!

Q: Do you wish to argue them from the platform of atheism?

A: Yes of course! I am an atheist!

Q: So are you saying atheism is different from 'being an atheist' because being an atheist is MORE than what atheism is, which of itself merely is about lacking belief in all ideas of GOD?

A: Yes. (?)

Then you are no longer arguing from the position of atheism, but from a position of whatever TYPE of atheist you are as a subset of that platform.

What types of atheists are you proposing?

I do not propose any types. It is up to the atheist to say what type of atheist they are in relation to which of the subset(s) of atheism they belong to or otherwise self identify with and support.

I would like to examine this claim of yours to see if it reflects the reality that I observe.

[Linky]

Perhaps get back to me when you have found out which type(s) of atheist you represent in relation to what approach you are taking in regard to argument re Ideas of GOD.

So far, all you (and others) normally provide is that you are atheists because you lack belief in the existence of any gods.
That in itself, as I have pointed out, is besides the point as it offers no argument relevant to the description of atheism as a position, to do with ideas of GOD.

So what, you lack belief in gods? How is that relevant to any argument? What do your lack of beliefs have to do with this?

Q: Do you have any belief in the existence of any gods whatsoever?

A: No. I am an atheist.

Okay then. Nothing to debate here folks...move along...

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 166 by William]



[center]
Atheism is about only ONE kind of non belief... a non belief in gods or goddesses
That's it.

Part Two[/center]

If that were the case, then there would be nothing to argue about.

IF?

What do you think atheism is?
Do you reject my definition?

Q: Do you wish to argue them from the platform of atheism?

A: Yes of course! I am an atheist!

Q: So are you saying atheism is different from 'being an atheist' because being an atheist is MORE than what atheism is, which of itself merely is about lacking belief in all ideas of GOD?

A: Yes. (?)

No.

If you aren't a theist, you are an atheist.
It's as simple as that.

Then you are no longer arguing from the position of atheism, but from a position of whatever TYPE of atheist you are as a subset of that platform.

There as many "kinds" of atheists as their are definitions for "atheism". Not everyone who labels himself an atheist has the same definition. My definition is rather simple. But feel free to debate atheists who use different definitions.

I have no idea what you are joking about...
It's kinda cute, but I don't get it.

I can make arguments why theism isn't believable... but that's it. Atheism is just a rejection of theistic claims.

If you have any questions for me, don't be shy.
Many people seem to have very strange ideas about what atheism means, mostly due, I suppose to religious anti-atheist propaganda, or just plain ignorance. That can be fixed very easily, of course.

I can help to clear those misconceptions up for you if you like.

Right now, I don't know what you mean.
I'm here, and many thinking atheists are here if you DO have any questions for us, though.

Have a nice day.