Purposeful Design or Chanced Processes?

[theStudent]

Evidence of God is everywhere.
The Bible states that truth clearly, when it tells us, "The hearing ear and the seeing eye — Jehovah has made both of them."

The ear consists of three parts: the outer ear, the middle ear, and the inner ear.
The middle ear is a small chamber that begins with the eardrum and leads to the maze of passageways that constitute the inner ear.
Besides its function in connection with hearing, the inner ear also possesses organs having to do with balance and motion.
The use of two ears greatly helps a person to locate the source and direction of sounds.

The human ear detects sounds within the range of about 20 to 20,000 cycles per second.
The ears of many animals are sensitive to tones of higher pitch that are inaudible to the human ear. The range of sound energy perceived by the human ear is remarkable. The loudest sound that the ear can tolerate without danger is two million million times as powerful as the least perceptible sound. The human ear has the maximum sensitivity that it is practical to possess, for if the ears were any keener they would respond to the unceasing molecular motions of the air particles themselves.

The outer ear is precisely designed with a specially designed structure of curves, and an opening designed to catch and channel sound waves into the inner ear.

How the ear works


How the hearing works
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How your ear works - Inside the Human Body: Building Your Brain - BBC One
[youtube][/youtube]

The eye is a highly efficient, self-adjusting “camera� that transmits impulses to the brain, where the object focused on the eye’s retina is interpreted as sight.
The possession of two eyes, as in the human body, provides stereoscopic vision. Sight is probably the most important channel of communication to the mind.

How the Eye Works Animation - How Do We See Video - Nearsighted & Farsighted Human Eye Anatomy


Anatomy and Function of the Eye
[youtube][/youtube]

A Journey Through the Human Eye: How We See


Eye Animation
[youtube][/youtube]

If the male and the female reproductive organs evolved, how had life been proceeding before the complete formation of both?

An egg from a woman’s ovaries cannot produce life on its own. For this to happen, a sperm cell from the male reproductive system must combine with the nucleus of the egg.
What does the sperm do to make the egg develop?

Differently shaped cells begin to form - nerve cells, muscle cells, skin cells, and all the other types that make up the human body.
Science Digest

No one knows for sure, why certain cells aggregate to form a kidney while others join to form a liver, and so on.

Eventually, the human body reaches full growth, being made up of some 100,000,000,000,000 cells.
What causes the cells to stop dividing at just the right time and why?

How Sperm Meets Egg | Parents
[youtube][/youtube]

The Masterpiece of Nature, by Professor Graham Bell

Sex is the queen of problems in evolutionary biology. . . . It seems that some of the most fundamental questions in evolutionary biology have scarcely ever been asked . . . The largest and least ignorable and most obdurate of these questions is, why sex?

Imo, it is truly mind-boggling how one can say they have no evidence of God.

Do you agree these give evidence of design and purpose?
Is there any chance that these came about through the process described by evolution theorist?
Evidence for arguments required.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 188 by stevevw]

I worry when people say that all our mental disorders come down to a brain imbalance that is basically adjusted with chemicals. To me, this is not too different to taking drugs to alleviate feeling down or insecure. I think this is taking a one-dimensional view of humans and the possibilities for being a healthy and well-balanced individual. This may be an extension of evolutionary theory in that every behaviour, belief, morality, has to have an evolutionary reason. This is looking at things on the biological dimension only and there may be other aspects that humans can tap into which can help them.

I worry that people who are not educated on such matters pretend to know what is best for the mental health of other people rather than those who have dedicated their lives to the study, understanding, and practice of helping others.

Schizophrenia is treatable and schizophrenics can lead happy healthy lives instead of suffering from intense hallucinations and other negative symptoms, people with severe depression can function, bi-polar disorder can be managed.

What other aspects can a schizophrenic "tap" into? Some alternative spiritual therapy?

I suffer from ADHD every symptom on the checklist is rated near the highest. I also suffer from High blood pressure which puts me in a happy unique bucket of not being able to take medication to treat the issue while I manage my blood pressure. I don't get the luxury of taking meds to alleviate feeling down or insecure. I just get to deal with it the old fashioned way. So believe you me I can appreciate the science that has allowed others with similar symptoms to be able to treat the issue.

I think this is a good attitude but that it shouldn't be used to argue against those like myself who has had experiences, that I need help to alleviate myself of said experiences. Such serves the one arguing this to grant them the means to claim my experiences are the result of brain dysfunctions, as a hand-waving 'explanation' and a means of belittling personal subjective experience which is NOT contributing any negative affect on either myself or those around me.

Sure, I had all say in how I decided to react to the different things I have experienced and sure I can conclude that this goes a long way in preserving mental stability in relation to subjective experience, but how would it be if I then said to you that you were just being weak by combating your perceived problems with drugs?

You would be offended, would you not?

So my truth is my truth and your truth is your truth and we are better off allowing for that rather than going down the 'my way or the highway' mode of thinking and expressing.

I find my strength in my (ever expanding) idea of GOD and the relationship - inclusive of alternate subjective experience, developing through said relationship. Why should that bother you or anyone else who begs to differ?

I am not sure which experiences you are referring to as a hand waving so I can't comment on that. I don't think anyone in the medical community is implying or saying that individual experiences cannot account or attribute to mental illness or distress. The only argument I really hear the hand waving or dismive attitude argument comes from those outside the medical community. There are both biological and environmental stimuli that can cause distress.

To make an analogy that I think will help. Let's look at someone who has osteoporosis; a fall a stumble can cause them to break bones that someone who doesn't have osteoporosis would otherwise shrug off. Some people are better adapted at dealing with environmental stimulus that others.

Going further with this analogy, if you see someone with a broken leg would you tell them using a crutch, getting the bone set, and put in a cast they are weak by using medical help to combat their perceived problems?

You might have your "truth" and I have my perspective it still doesn't change what is happening physically around us. There is no issue on my part with people who want to try alternative means of dealing with their issues so long as they aren't harming others. I do take unbridge though with those who have no experience in medicine dictate medical practices(not that you are).

[William]

[Replying to post 188 by stevevw]

I am not sure which experiences you are referring to as a hand waving so I can't comment on that.

To example, the nature of this post. [link]

I don't think anyone in the medical community is implying or saying that individual experiences cannot account or attribute to mental illness or distress.

Of course not - but it is a leap to contribute all such experience to being hand-waved away as 'brain disorder'.

The only argument I really hear the hand waving or dismive attitude argument comes from those outside the medical community. There are both biological and environmental stimuli that can cause distress.

Agreed. In the same way that there are those who find other ways in which to deal with natural stress so that it does not become debilitating.

To make an analogy that I think will help. Let's look at someone who has osteoporosis; a fall a stumble can cause them to break bones that someone who doesn't have osteoporosis would otherwise shrug off. Some people are better adapted at dealing with environmental stimulus that others.

Correct. Sticks and stones in a way. Emotional distress is different. A broken bone is fixed differently to a broken heart.

With external injuries, these are more noticeable and perhaps even easier to understand and deal with.

Going further with this analogy, if you see someone with a broken leg would you tell them using a crutch, getting the bone set, and put in a cast they are weak by using medical help to combat their perceived problems?

Not at all. However, I acknowledge the differences between physical injuries and emotional ones. I do not necessarily think that administering chemicals is the same as setting a broken bone in a cast. The cast deals sufficiently with the problem and the bone heals.

The drugs might do more to suppress the problem rather than actually heal the problem.

In some cases, while the drug is suppressing one problem it is creating other problems, which in turn require even more drugs to deal with those problems created.

Good for the drug making business perhaps, but ultimate is it good for the individual?

It has the appearance of (analogy) sticking a band aid onto a broken arm and expecting that to do the job. (might be an bad analogy but enough at least to get the gist).

You might have your "truth" and I have my perspective it still doesn't change what is happening physically around us.

Is your perspective not your "truth"?

There is no issue on my part with people who want to try alternative means of dealing with their issues so long as they aren't harming others.

And if they (like I do) say that in the trying, the evidence of it working is found therein (subjectively) are you able to accept that or is your opinion of subjective experience more in the negative?

I do take unbridge though with those who have no experience in medicine dictate medical practices(not that you are).

No I am not. The alternative works fine for me, and I have no qualms about saying so.
Nor do I have qualms about acknowledging ulterior motives can be at play in relation to the medical profession because they are human and humans can and do sucumme to temptation to either not fully inform or misinform if that helps their personal situation (lifestyles etc).

Such weakness is not only to be found in the theist camps. I look for balanced criticism in relation to that. Those who protest about such behavior in theist circles while turning a blind eye to such behavior in sociopolitical (secular) circles I am entitled to debate.

(not that I am inferring that you one such person.)

[H.sapiens]

Of course not - but it is a leap to contribute all such experience to being hand-waved away as 'brain disorder'.

"Brain disorder" is your term, but we'll go with it. You claim to have had "out of body" experiences.

You have no actual evidence, just your subjective impression.

I hypothesize that this is likely the result of a chemical imbalance in your brain. I have no way to prove that, but the fact that such pseudo-phenomena can be produced by drugs makes it a likely inference.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 201 by William]

Not at all. However, I acknowledge the differences between physical injuries and emotional ones. I do not necessarily think that administering chemicals is the same as setting a broken bone in a cast. The cast deals sufficiently with the problem and the bone heals.

The drugs might do more to suppress the problem rather than actually heal the problem.

In some cases, while the drug is suppressing one problem it is creating other problems, which in turn require even more drugs to deal with those problems created.

Good for the drug making business perhaps, but ultimate is it good for the individual?

It has the appearance of (analogy) sticking a band aid onto a broken arm and expecting that to do the job. (might be an bad analogy but enough at least to get the gist). Smile

Emotional injuries can have physical roots people with certain forms of depression often produce very little serotonin. That isn't something you can pray away or work at fixing. Changing the environment sometimes has little to no impact.

There is a form of depression that is currently untreatable with incredibly high suicide rates. The U.K is currently doing a medical research involving LSD to great success. Sometimes medicine is the only solution.

Now the issue you raise of suppressing problems and creating others often involves a misdiagnosis. We are human after all and mistakes are prone to happen especially given the complex nature of the brain. That doesn't mean medicine doesn't work or the medication is the problem.

The facts remain

Suicide rates are down when people are treated for depression
Schizophrenics and bi polar disorder patients can lead normal lives

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 201 by William]

I am not sure which experiences you are referring to as a hand waving so I can't comment on that.


To example, the nature of this post. [link]

Can it be shown to be anything other than alterations in brain chemistry?

Putting people in centrifuges, taking hallucinogens, and applying magnets to the brain can produce OBEs and all alter the brain chemistry.

You propose something with no evidence to support your claim. I'll go with the more likely conclusion.

[stevevw]

[Replying to post 188 by stevevw]


[center]I don't know about you, but I'll take my medical advice from a qualified practitioner.[/center]

Of course and I am not saying we should not seek expert medical advice. But I find that some doctors if not most have become a bit complacent or maybe its the system but they can rely on prescribing medication to readily instead of looking at other ways to remedy medical conditions. Hense we have an epidemic of prescribed medication addiction. We are labelling everything with medical terms such as ADHD, OCD, ODD etc when it may have just been a behavioural issue or a coping issue that we can deal with in other ways. It's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy in that by making out everything we do is a sickness or mental disorder we have made life that way and now we look for things that we can label ourselves with. We are what we say we are and in the end, that is what we will become or the view of always looking for labels of sickness becomes a sickness in itself.

I worry when people say that all our mental disorders come down to a brain imbalance that is basically adjusted with chemicals.

I'm going to demand the very best that medical science has to offer.
I don't know what it is that you suggest we should do INSTEAD.

Yes I agree, but we have to be careful about having such a narrow view of sickness. There are other ways to deal with most everyday ailments. A lot has to do with the frame of mind and you don't need to go to psychologists to get help for this. But as I believe there are is also a spiritual aspect to our life and this needs attention as well. More people are recognising this today.

To me, this is not too different to taking drugs to alleviate feeling down or insecure.

There are many people who could not LIVE without medication.
We USED to lock people with mental illness in places like Bedlam.

Those days are well gone. We have new problems to the other extreme now where we medicate so much that it has created a new problem that is affecting many. Medication is needed but it should be controlled more and there is an overuse. There are more people addicted to prescribed drugs than illegal ones. We need to look at non-medicating remedies as well that being so eager to just prescribe a pill for everything.

The fact is though despite the current approaches and beliefs about treating mental illness it has increased dramatically, so whatever the medical professionals are doing it isn't working and in fact may be making matters worse.

I guess you better stay away from any doctor, then

It doesn't have to be so extreme like either you use a doctor or you don't. Its just a case of balance and also considering other alternatives and having a holistic approach.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 205 by stevevw]

Hense we have an epidemic of prescribed medication addiction. We are labelling everything with medical terms such as ADHD, OCD, ODD etc when it may have just been a behavioural issue or a coping issue that we can deal with in other ways.

The epidemic of prescribed medication addiction is mostly related to narcotics such as OxyContin. Lumping ADHD medication in with this group is both misleading and leads to stigma for those who actually deal with ADHD. The oxycodone and contin addiction epidemic is related to the fact that these drugs were marketed as non addictive. To replace things like morphine.

The reality is treating pain is a difficult thing to do and nearly all medications that treat pain are physically addicting. Marijuana which can also treat pain and does not have a physically addictive component(people can rarely be emotionally addicted) although not as effectively is federally illegal.

So maybe perhaps the addiction of prescribed medications is probably more complex than what your leading on to.


Thanks to Psychiatric medicines

Suicide rates in those who are depressed have dropped
Schizophrenia and bi polar disorder can be managed
Various anxiety and social disorders can be allievated

In the grand scheme the many lives who have benefited seem to take a back seat to your sensationalization of the minority of cases of misdiagnosis. Psychiatry is relatively new compared to other medical fields and we are learning constantly. The leaps we have taken have been astounding. We must also acknowledge the shortcomings. We can't pretend though that these medicines don't help and they don't benefit the vast majority of patients.

Then again it's simply easier stigmatize what we don't understand.

[stevevw]

[Replying to post 205 by stevevw]

Hense we have an epidemic of prescribed medication addiction. We are labelling everything with medical terms such as ADHD, OCD, ODD etc when it may have just been a behavioural issue or a coping issue that we can deal with in other ways.

The epidemic of prescribed medication addiction is mostly related to narcotics such as OxyContin. Lumping ADHD medication in with this group is both misleading and leads to stigma for those who actually deal with ADHD. The oxycodone and contin addiction epidemic is related to the fact that these drugs were marketed as non addictive. To replace things like morphine.

The reality is treating pain is a difficult thing to do and nearly all medications that treat pain are physically addicting. Marijuana which can also treat pain and does not have a physically addictive component(people can rarely be emotionally addicted) although not as effectively is federally illegal.

So maybe perhaps the addition of prescribed medications is probably more complex than what your leading on to.

I never said it was a simple problem or easy fix. I work on the front line of supporting people with problems such as addiction. But prescription drug use/abuse is more widespread than the few you mention. It is across the board from simple over the counter medications like cough medicines and pain killers to the ones you mention plus a host of others. Depressants for relieving anxiety, such as Valium or Xanax are widely used and this is part of the problem. We are being prescribed pills for just about anything. People are taking pills when they cannot cope, to feel happier, to help them sleep, to help them wake, to help them just about do everything and this has been an increasing phenomenon where we want a quick fix for problems in modern life.

Thanks to Psychiatric medicines

Suicide rates in those who are depressed have dropped
Schizophrenia and bi polar disorder can be managed
Various anxiety and social disorders can be allievated

Actually depression, anxiety, suicide and mental illness have been increasing in recent years despite the overprescription of antidepressant medication.

According to the World Health Authority
In the last 45 years, suicide rates have increased by 60% worldwide. Suicide is now among the three leading causes of death among those aged 15-44 (male and female). Suicide attempts are up to 20 times more frequent than completed suicides.

(WHO) estimates that each year approximately one million people die from suicide, which represents a global mortality rate of 16 people per 100,000 or one death every 40 seconds. It is predicted that by 2020 the rate of death will increase to one every 20 seconds.
http://www.befrienders.org/suicide-statistics

The New York Times reported in 2007 that the number of American children and adolescents treated for bipolar disorder had increased 40-fold between 1994 and 2003. In May 2013, CDC reported in “Mental Health Surveillance Among Children—United States, 2005–2011,� the following: “A total of 13%–20% of children living in the United States experience a mental disorder in a given year, and surveillance during 1994–2011 has shown the prevalence of these conditions to be increasing.�
http://www.salon.com/2013/08/26/how_our ... n_partner/

Another fact is that the medication that is prescribed for an illness such as depression for example actually makes the problem worse and leads to more depression.
Antidepressants Make You More Depressed and Trigger Suicidal Thoughts
http://naturalsociety.com/more-suicidal ... nt-report/

In the grand scheme, the many lives who have benefited seem to take a back seat to your sensationalization of the minority of cases of misdiagnosis. Psychiatry is relatively new compared to other medical fields and we are learning constantly. The leaps we have taken have been astounding. We must also acknowledge the shortcomings. We can't pretend though that these medicines don't help and they don't benefit the vast majority of patients.

Then again it's simply easier stigmatise what we don't understand.

I never said that prescribed medication in the right circumstances is not justified. No one is stigmatising anyone. By mentioning that we have a problem with overprescribed drugs is not stigmatising. It is acknowledging a problem that if not dealt with will lead to a much bigger problem. We have to be careful as medication should also be part of an overall strategy for helping someone. What often happens is they end up on medication for years.

There is no sensationalising either as the fact is prescribed drugs has become the number one drug problem in many countries, especially western ones who also have many problems with depression and suicide. In the US the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has now officially labelled prescription drug abuse as an epidemic.

They also point out another shocking fact that points to there being a big problem with prescription drug abuse and overprescription.

Although the U.S. makes up only 5 percent of the world’s population, we consume 75 percent of the world’s prescription drugs.

They also point out,
In a culture of quick and easy fixes, prescription medication has become synonymous with “wellness.�
The problem of overprescribing medication is rampant in America and pharmaceutical drug overdoses are now one of the leading causes of death in the nation.
http://www.rehabs.com/are-doctors-to-bl ... rug-abuse/

Are Doctors to Blame for Prescription Drug Abuse?
According to CDC data, the percent of people taking at least one prescription drug increased by 50 percent between the years of 2007 and 2010.

So, who’s to blame for overprescribing? Are doctors too heavy on the prescription pad? Are big pharmaceutical companies holding the pen? Or, are we too ingrained into a culture of quick fixes? Truthfully, everyone plays a role in this complex issue.

Many would argue that prescription pads have almost replaced the roles of therapeutic doctors. It’s as if healing and sobriety are no longer factors.

In an almost ironic twist, this may lead to drug cascading, which is the process of prescribing one drug to treat the symptoms caused by another drug. In essence, doctors are prescribing drugs to treat symptoms of prescribed drugs, which may or may not have been necessary n the first place.
Along with drug cascading, doctors are also being criticised for succumbing to the “business� of healthcare rather than the practice. In other words, they increasingly represent a professional front for the billion-dollar drug industry instead of focusing on wellness.
http://www.rehabs.com/are-doctors-to-bl ... rug-abuse/

Another expert report states that
A new report finds that U.S. doctors are too quick to prescribe drugs, and often give little thought to side effects and non-drug alternatives.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... drugs.aspx

Research also shows that When American doctors give their patients narcotic painkillers, 99 percent of them hand out prescriptions that exceed the federally recommended three-day dosage limit
http://www.health.com/pain/nearly-all-u ... ers-survey

The Western Australian branch of the Australian Medical Association (AMA) says Prescription drug abuse is a 'national emergency.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-26/a ... cy/6727574

In fact, in some ways, modern society is what is making people sick. The expectations, the pressure and stress of just trying to cope and live in modern society can cause mental illness.
How our society breeds anxiety, depression and dysfunction
http://www.salon.com/2013/08/26/how_our ... n_partner/

So as you can see there is a big problem with the over prescribing of medications and the lack of looking for alternative solutions. It's a quick fix society and this is only making matters worse. In a time where we have more and more comforts and ideas at our fingertips which should make life better, we are actually suffering more than ever before. So something is not working as to what really makes people happy and fixes our ailments.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 205 by stevevw]



[center]I don't know about you, but I'll take my medical advice from a qualified practitioner.
Part Two[/center]

Of course and I am not saying we should not seek expert medical advice.

Ah, ok.
Thanks for clarifying that.
It almost appeared as if you were saying that we should look elsewhere, and to find some alternative medicine, instead.

But I find that some doctors if not most have become a bit complacent or maybe its the system but they can rely on prescribing medication to readily instead of looking at other ways to remedy medical conditions.

You seem to claim to know the state of "most" doctors skepticism.
I think that's a fabulous claim.

I really have to reject it.
I don't have a clue how you could possibly know that.

Hense we have an epidemic of prescribed medication addiction.

An epidemic you say.
Hyperbolic choice of word and quite medical, too.

Prescribed medications are sometimes the only way we have to deal with an epidemic, my friend.

I think that some doctors might be quicker to prescribe medications that others.
And of course, some doctors are better than others, too.

Some doctors might under-prescribe.
What we want is the correct dose. A good doctor cares about that kind of thing.

But your over-generalizing is quite harmful.
I'm not a happy cat.

We are labelling everything with medical terms such as ADHD, OCD, ODD etc when it may have just been a behavioural issue or a coping issue that we can deal with in other ways.

As medical science grows, we learn more about how the human body and how it can go wrong, and how to try to help.

What you seem to consider a fault, is actually a victory for the human race. Of course, science isn't perfect and neither are the people practicing it. We still have a very long way to go. We do not know everything.

But you seem to be criticizing the pursuit of science. You seem to want to "roll it back".

I wonder why?

I'm going to demand the very best that medical science has to offer.
I don't know what it is that you suggest we should do INSTEAD.

Yes I agree, but we have to be careful about having such a narrow view of sickness.

It's a good idea to remind scientists to be careful, but really? Do we really have to ?
Should this be our first priority? You might not be aware of how science self-regulates, but it does.

I suppose that some of them aren't as careful as they might be. And then, if caught, eventually get kicked out of the medical profession, and quite possibly, arrested.

Good science, and that would include medical science , has checks for errors built in.
Not caring for people's well being would be a HUGE medical error, my friend.

Yeah, the good scientists know to be quite careful.
Are you imagining that they don't care?

What kind of psychopathic monsters do you think medical scientists are?

There are other ways to deal with most everyday ailments.

Some other ways are not as good as the modern ones. We call that scientific progress That's why medical scientists are working so hard to constantly replace what medical practices we have now with better ones. Have you heard of "progress" at all?

Science tries to find out the most effective methods, the less harmful, the less painful, the least costly ( so that more people can benefit ) and so on. In a word, BETTER medical practices.

IF those "other ways" were better than medical science has to offer, everyone in his right mind would have to say "take those, instead".

You are quite free to take inferior methods.

I don't know about you, but I'll take my medical advice from a qualified practitioner who uses the best known methods available.

A lot has to do with the frame of mind and you don't need to go to psychologists to get help for this.

If you don't really need a psychologist, don't go.
Are you suggesting that nobody needs to go?

But as I believe there are is also a spiritual aspect to our life and this needs attention as well. More people are recognising this today.

If someone needs to go see a preacher they should go.
Maybe they don't need a psychologist.

But a lot of preachers engage in "free" ( feel free to donate ) psychology, but of course, you get what you pay for in some cases. There are also some preachers who will offer free medical advice. They would be quite wrong to do so, unless they are qualified.

To me, this is not too different to taking drugs to alleviate feeling down or insecure.

There are many people who could not live without medication.
We used to lock people with mental illness in places like Bedlam.

Those days are well gone.

But you seem to be saying we should bring the old, outdated, "alternative" medical practices back. There is a reason "alternative medicine" is so darn alternative.

Yes, modern medical science is really really better, isn't it?.
In fact, when it comes to health, it's the best we got.

It's as if you never heard of the concept "progress".
When it comes to medical science "We've come a long way from Bedlam, baby!".

Go to a faith healer if you think it's a good idea. They used to be all that we had back in the day. Some people think it's still a good idea.

I'm not sure you are advocating for that, but your blanket skepticism of medical science is very unthoughtful, my friend. It's as if you never went to a hospital or even heard of them.

I get really irritated by people who so easily criticize medical science as if there was anything better or that they knew better that the medical scientists.

The arrogance astounds me.
Not a happy cat.

We have new problems to the other extreme now where we medicate so much that it has created a new problem that is affecting many.

Yes, unfortunately, medical science grows, but not in a completely straight line. It has some ups and downs in the short term. Sometimes, going down a bit ( as unfortunate as that may be ) is the best way to learn. If you know anything at all about the problems modern medical science is facing is because some people are very aware of it... these people are the scientists finding out about the problems.

The reports we get about the problems in science ARE from the scientists.
That's how science works, by the way.

We notice a problem, and then we attempt to fix it.
Your criticisms are unreasonable.

Medication is needed but it should be controlled more and there is an overuse.

Why don't you ask doctors if you should overuse ]some medication?
I think you might find out how many would say yes.

Your critique is unthoughtful.
I think you could do way better than that.

There are more people addicted to prescribed drugs than illegal ones. We need to look at non-medicating remedies as well that being so eager to just prescribe a pill for everything.

Non-medicating remedies?

What on earth do you think that means?
Do you mean ineffective remedies?

I guess you better stay away from any doctor, then

It doesn't have to be so extreme like either you use a doctor or you don't. Its just a case of balance and also considering other alternatives and having a holistic approach.

We should bother considering what we know are less effective alternatives?
I don't know about you, but I'll take my medical advice from a qualified practitioner

Thanks for the free medical advice.
I find to be horrible.

[DanieltheDragon]

[Replying to post 207 by stevevw]

Actually depression, anxiety, suicide and mental illness have been increasing in recent years despite the overprescription of antidepressant medication.

Anti depressants don't cure depression nor do they cause it. Whether depression anxiety suicide and other mental illenesses increase or decrease was not my point which you clearly missed.

The point was those that are suffering can have their symptoms managed to a degree. There are other causes for suicide aside from depression. Like alcoholism for example, or PTSD.

What I said was when we treat mental illness we can reduce suicide pharmacology has been shown to help in this area. While it is not a silver bullet in some areas it has helped.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3071298/

The argument you pose is a red herring.