Jehovahâ€™s Witnesses only ones that will be saved?????

Donray · Post by **Donray** » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:30 pm

Jehovahâ€™s Witnesses teach that only 144,000 people will go to heaven. God chooses these 144,000 individuals, the process began with the first century Christians and was completed in the year 1935. Of course from 1879 (the year the Watchtower started) till 1935 only faithful Jehovahâ€™s Witnesses were chosen for this special role. All faithful Jehovahâ€™s Witnesses not chosen to be among the 144,000 elite that go to heaven (those joining the Watchtower after 1935) will spend eternity on earth. All other people on the earth will be destroyed at war of Armageddon here on earth. This would also include any Jehovah's Witnesses who has been disfellowshipped or is otherwise unfaithful to the Watchtower and has not worked his or her way back into the good graces of the Watchtower by the time of Armageddon.

If one believes the JWs all other Christians and everyone that is not a JW will not go to heaven or live on the Earth after Armageddon.

Question for debate is JW the only true Christin religion or is it some type of cult that calls itself Christian?

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:35 pm

postroad wrote: [Replying to post 215 by onewithhim]
Does this mean you are only parroting Spiritual truth as you have been instructed by others?
That would be an interesting concept.

Hmmm, do you see some parallel between teaching what you have been taught and the word parroting that makes them equal? They are not equal to my mind and one smacks of scorn. Is every thought you have on spiritual matters definitely your own and never never introduced to you by anyone else? We all only teach what we have been taught, parroting is blabbing on about what is not understood as if it was - how do we know which you are doing, for instance?

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:44 pm

2timothy316 wrote:
tam wrote:
What makes you think these two songs are the same song?
What makes you think there are two? There is only one new song that can be mastered. That means to me that the 'new song' is singular otherwise the Bible would say, 'there is another new song'. The Bible is clear there are two groups. One that is numbered and one that is not. One that can master the new song and one that can't. Ones that will rule and one that will not. There is no mention of another new song in the Bible that everyone can master. Why else make a clear distinction that there was a song only the 144.00 could master? There is no mention of the Great Crowd learning a new song at all. Not even in any of the scriptures context.

Who are those described in Revelation 5:9-10, in your understanding?

The 144,000, the great crowd, or neither?

Or

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:28 am

Checkpoint wrote:
2timothy316 wrote:
tam wrote:
What makes you think these two songs are the same song?
What makes you think there are two? There is only one new song that can be mastered. That means to me that the 'new song' is singular otherwise the Bible would say, 'there is another new song'. The Bible is clear there are two groups. One that is numbered and one that is not. One that can master the new song and one that can't. Ones that will rule and one that will not. There is no mention of another new song in the Bible that everyone can master. Why else make a clear distinction that there was a song only the 144.00 could master? There is no mention of the Great Crowd learning a new song at all. Not even in any of the scriptures context.
Who are those described in Revelation 5:9-10, in your understanding?

The 144,000, the great crowd, or neither?

Or

Well reasonably, since it's speaks of individuals singing a "new song" both in Rev 5:9 and 14:3 both verses are speaking about the same group.

5:9 speaks about rulers / Kings
14:3 speaks about 144,000 with Jesus (the lamb) bought from the earth.

Merging both verses we end up with 144,000 rulers with Jesus (in heaven).

Obviously if the great crowd cannot be numbered, they cannot be part of the group that is numbered.

postroad · Post by **postroad** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:43 am

[Replying to post 251 by ttruscott]
I used the term because the poster was a Jehovah's Wittness of long standing. They are required to to conform exactly to doctrine as revealed by their Governing Body. This doctrine has flip flopped over the decade and every member must accept new light even if it contradicts what was believed for decades.

Checkpoint · Post by **Checkpoint** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:06 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Checkpoint wrote:
2timothy316 wrote:
tam wrote:
What makes you think these two songs are the same song?
What makes you think there are two? There is only one new song that can be mastered. That means to me that the 'new song' is singular otherwise the Bible would say, 'there is another new song'. The Bible is clear there are two groups. One that is numbered and one that is not. One that can master the new song and one that can't. Ones that will rule and one that will not. There is no mention of another new song in the Bible that everyone can master. Why else make a clear distinction that there was a song only the 144.00 could master? There is no mention of the Great Crowd learning a new song at all. Not even in any of the scriptures context.
Who are those described in Revelation 5:9-10, in your understanding?

The 144,000, the great crowd, or neither?

Or

Well reasonably, since it's speaks of individuals singing a "new song" both in Rev 5:9 and 14:3 both verses are speaking about the same group.

5:9 speaks about rulers / Kings
14:3 speaks about 144,000 with Jesus (the lamb) bought from the earth.

Merging both verses we end up with 144,000 rulers with Jesus (in heaven).

By inference, perhaps, but that is all it is, it is not decisive.

Obviously if the great crowd cannot be numbered, they cannot be part of the group that is numbered.

I suggest it is more likely to be the other way around.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:42 pm

Checkpoint wrote:
By inference, perhaps, but that is all it is, it is not decisive.

Lol... this is the book of Revelation, inference is pretty much all we got... anyway what do you think the parrellism we see inferes?

Checkpoint wrote:
Obviously if the great crowd cannot be numbered, they cannot be part of the group that is numbered.

I suggest it is more likely to be the other way around.

What do you mean by "the other way round" please explain.

JW

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:18 pm

postroad wrote: [Replying to post 251 by ttruscott]
I used the term because the poster was a Jehovah's Wittness of long standing. They are required to to conform exactly to doctrine as revealed by their Governing Body. This doctrine has flip flopped over the decade and every member must accept new light even if it contradicts what was believed for decades.

Might a less pejorative way to express this be: Those who come to understand the need for the new light are free to choose to accept it and those who see the old way as still the preferable alternative are free to go their way and not follow the church anymore? This gives everyone the benefit of the doubt as to choosing their beliefs after proper introspection without the accusation they are blindly following in ignorance, which may not be true.

postroad · Post by **postroad** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:21 pm

[Replying to post 257 by ttruscott]
It's not that simple. Do you know what it means to be disfellowshipped?

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:29 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Checkpoint wrote:
2timothy316 wrote:
tam wrote:
What makes you think these two songs are the same song?
What makes you think there are two? There is only one new song that can be mastered. That means to me that the 'new song' is singular otherwise the Bible would say, 'there is another new song'. The Bible is clear there are two groups. One that is numbered and one that is not. One that can master the new song and one that can't. Ones that will rule and one that will not. There is no mention of another new song in the Bible that everyone can master. Why else make a clear distinction that there was a song only the 144.00 could master? There is no mention of the Great Crowd learning a new song at all. Not even in any of the scriptures context.
Who are those described in Revelation 5:9-10, in your understanding?

The 144,000, the great crowd, or neither?

Or

Well reasonably, since it's speaks of individuals singing a "new song" both in Rev 5:9 and 14:3 both verses are speaking about the same group.

5:9 speaks about rulers / Kings
14:3 speaks about 144,000 with Jesus (the lamb) bought from the earth.

Merging both verses we end up with 144,000 rulers with Jesus (in heaven).

Obviously if the great crowd cannot be numbered, they cannot be part of the group that is numbered.

Checkpoint has been apprised of all of that, many times. He himself had started threads concerning the 144,000, and the subject has been discussed thoroughly. It is baffling to me why he should ask such a question, having been involved with all of the information within his own threads. Truly, Mr. Checkpoint, why is it that your questions are repeated, over and over---the same questions---though they have been answered?

Looking once again at verse 8 of Rev.5....."When he [the Lamb] had taken the book, the four living creatures and the 24 elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." Just like the 4 living creatures before God's throne [Rev.4:6,7], the 24 elders bow to Jesus as one having authority, but only these "elders" have harps and bowls of incense, and they are unique in "singing a new song." So we can tell that these "elders" picture the 144,000 of the "Israel of God," who also hold harps and sing the new song. (Verse 9; see also Galatians 6:16; Colossians 1:12; Revelation 7:3-8; 14:1-4.)

The 24 elders fulfill a heavenly priestly function, pictured by the priests of ancient Israel burning incense to Jehovah in the tabernacle. They can be no other than the 144,000 who alone have the privilege of being priests and kings with Christ. They have been "taken out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation," from all walks of life, men and women, people who have had every problem that mankind has had. This gives us an assurance that we will have persons guiding us who will be sympathetic and merciful kings and priests....able to help men and women of all kinds to benefit from God's provision for eternal life.

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:47 pm

postroad wrote: [Replying to post 251 by ttruscott]
I used the term because the poster was a Jehovah's Wittness of long standing. They are required to to conform exactly to doctrine as revealed by their Governing Body. This doctrine has flip flopped over the decade and every member must accept new light even if it contradicts what was believed for decades.

Just curious......Why do you not expend as much energy on the RCC, when their teachings have flip-flopped? Years ago certain saints were venerated, e.g., St. Christopher, who everyone had on their dash-boards, but then he wasn't a saint any more. For many scores of years it was a sin to eat meat on Friday; then suddenly that was retracted. What of all the people who went to "hell" for formerly eating meat on Friday? You get the gist. Why is it that you reserve your harsh criticism for JWs, when other religions have flip-flopped as well?