Does God change his mind?

[OnceConvinced]

A Christian member of our forum recently pointed out a bible contradiction for all to see:

This verse was presented first:
Numbers 23:19 "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind."

The Christian then attempted to trump it with a contradictory scripture where God DOES change his mind, thus exposing a blatant bible contradiction:

Jeremiah 18:8 "But if that nation about which I spoke turns from its evil way, I'll change my mind about the disaster that I had planned for it."

Here are further verses that show God changing his mind:

Exodus 32:14
So the LORD changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.

Amos 7:3
The LORD changed His mind about this. "It shall not be," said the LORD.

Jeremiah 18:10
if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it. (wow this is a verse where God says he will break his promise!!)


So questions for debate:

Does Got change his mind?
If he does change his mind, how do we know he hasn't changed his mind about much of what he expected from us in the New Testament?
If he does change his mind, how can we really know what he wants of us today?

[onewithhim]

Alternatively, God knew the future. But you're so hellbent on your own bias...

Hold it right there. This is not my own bias. The scriptures do not support that Jehovah makes anyone do anything evil.

Why do you make it seem like overriding our free will is my main argument? It isn't. My main argument is that God sees the future. Does scripture disallow the possibility that God knows the future?

Oh and by the way:

Exodus 7:3 But I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in Egypt, 4 he will not listen to you. Then I will lay my hand on Egypt and with mighty acts of judgment I will bring out my divisions, my people the Israelites.

Apparently God does make people do evil things. But again, this is not my primary claim. My primary claim is that God knows the future and it is by knowing the future that God knew Judas would be paid 30 pieces of silver. Either that or (as you seem to be suggesting) God just guessed

I am learning a great deal about allowing myself to suffer evil on these threads, to put up with brainless utterances and keep my exasperation to myself.

How many times does a person have to explain that God can choose NOT to know something.....so that He can GENUINELY offer to EVERYONE the gift of eternal life if they would just choose to take it? If He absolutely knew they wouldn't take it, what is the point in OFFERING it to them????

God doesn't make people do evil things. The evil is in YOUR mind if you believe that. He allowed Pharaoh's heart to harden even more than it already had. Pharaoh was already dead-set against bending his knee in any way to Israel's God.

If you took more time to really closely consider what people are saying here, you might get the points. Just sayin'.


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[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 179 by William]

Yes, but as I have said, that doesn't mean we should collapse God into human irrationality. God gave us the ability to use logic and wants us to use it.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 181 by onewithhim]

OK, but exactly what is God choosing not to know? And if there is something happening that God chooses not to know, then how is God omniscient? It would seem to me that a God choosing to turn his back on things and not see them would be a rather weak, indifferent God

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 178 by Justin108]

That is exactly the point I was making in earlier posts. If you hold humans can't grasp God, then anything we say about God, one way or the other, is flawed and wrong, and we can say nothing at all.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 179 by William]




[center]Data?
What data?[/center]

The best one can do is gather the data and examine it - the data itself flows and thus we cannot be static in relation to the data.

GOD in its fullness and wholeness is beyond our ability to fully understand.

____________

Question:

• 
  
  What data do you have to support your opinion that God cannot be fully understood?
  
  

____________

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 183 by hoghead1]



[center]

A rather weak, indifferent God[/center]

It would seem to me that a God choosing to turn his back on things and not see them would be a rather weak, indifferent God

From my reading of many Bible stories, the god ( one, two, three.. who knows? ) is evil, insane, psychopathic, bigoted, misogynistic, jealous, petulant, stupid, needs to be worshiped and adored, and has magical powers. I see that "God" pretty much as being like D.Trump but with that "magic touch", yo.

If we say that the god of the Bible denies reality it would fit right in with how I understand that quite fictional character.

[Justin108]

How many times does a person have to explain that God can choose NOT to know something

Since when is knowledge something one chooses to have or not have? I know, for example, that WW2 ended in 1945. I cannot choose to suddenly un-know this. To suggest that God can choose to un-know things makes no sense.

God is perfect. For God to not know something would make him imperfect. Can God choose to be imperfect while still remaining perfect?

....so that He can GENUINELY offer to EVERYONE the gift of eternal life if they would just choose to take it?

Why would God need to choose to not know something in order for him to offer eternal life?

If He absolutely knew they wouldn't take it, what is the point in OFFERING it to them????

What difference would it make if God looked into the future and simply chose to not offer this gift to those he knew wouldn't accept it? It would literally make no difference

To illustrate:

- God chooses to not see the future
- God offers Jack eternal life
- Jack refuses
- Jack does not get eternal life

vs.

- God can see the future
- God knows Jack will not accept eternal life
- God does not offer Jack eternal life
- Jack does not get eternal life

In both instances, Jack does not get eternal life. So what difference did God's willful ignorance make? Did God just try to avoid spoilers? Does God get off on the suspense of seeing who will accept his gift? Whether God sees the future or not makes literally no difference

God doesn't make people do evil things. The evil is in YOUR mind if you believe that.

So me believing God does evil things makes me evil somehow...?

He allowed Pharaoh's heart to harden even more than it already had.

I looked up a few alternate translations of Exodus 7:3 and none of them say God simply "allowed" Pharaoh's heart to harden.

The text is pretty clear on this:

Exodus 7:3 (New International Version) "But I will harden (verb) Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in Egypt"

Another translation is even clearer on the point:

Exodus 7:3 (New Living Translation) "But I will make Pharaoh's heart stubborn so I can multiply my miraculous signs and wonders in the land of Egypt."

Can you perhaps justify your claim that this verse simply means that God "allowed" the Pharaoh's heart to be hardened?

[Monta]

[Replying to post 186 by Blastcat]

"From my reading of many Bible stories, the god ( one, two, three.. who knows? ) is evil, insane, psychopathic, bigoted, misogynistic, jealous, petulant, stupid, needs to be worshiped and adored, and has magical powers. I see that "God" pretty much as being like D.Trump but with that "magic touch", yo.

If we say that the god of the Bible denies reality it would fit right in with how I understand that quite fictional character. "

I am not into fiction like yself and have problem as to how to respond to yr post.
Perhaps by learning something about God of the Bible
you'd know what to criticize.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 187 by Justin108]



[center]
We do have to stop a discussion if something makes no sense at all, what's the POINT?[/center]

How many times does a person have to explain that God can choose NOT to know something

Since when is knowledge something one chooses to have or not have?

Some people get an idea and stick with it.. no matter what.
Whataryagonnado?

In my opinion, just keep asking that one question.
Her idea makes NO sense.

[shnarkle]

I don't know. The Bible doesn't give a step by step explanation on how God made this come about. Yet I have no reason to jump to the conclusion that someone lost their freewill to make it happen. I'm not doing the 'what if' game either.

JAMES 1:13
When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.� For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. (also see Deut 34:2)

• I think you're looking at things from the wrong angle. God didn't manipulate events to ensure his words came true he merely looked into the future and was able to predict what would happen, then had it reported it in advance as prophecy.

As I said earlier, foreknowledge is not causation. If I knew someone was going to fall of a cliff, is this the same as scheming to get them to a cliffs edge and then pushing them? What if I was nowhere near the event at the time? Does it no longer qualify as a prediction?

God does not deal with evil, he did not manipulate events or collaborate or use evil men to ensure his son suffered and died ... that was Satan. Jehovah he did not arrange for a bribe to be in place, He did not use his power to make sure someone would be at hand to spit in his son's face to fulfill that or any of the other Messianic Prophecies pertaining to his son's torture.

God allowed these things to happen, he knew they would happen he had no hand in making them happen because he cannot do any thing that is evil and his goodness can have no collaboration with wickedness.

Attributing to God the manipulations of Satan is what makes Satan happiest of all.



JW

So do you think that when Jehovah looked into the future He saw Judas, before he was even born, betraying Jesus? If so, that would mean Judas was fated and the future is fixed. Not by Jehovah but by something else.

Yeah, that's nonsense. The brothers have said that Judas was at first considered loyal to Jehovah, and if he was not he never would have been picked by Him to be Jesus' Apostle. According to that idea, Jehovah did NOT look into the future and see Judas betraying Jesus.

.

So God doesn't create vessels "fitted for destruction"? Judas would fit that category if there ever was one.